Need direction McLeod Master problem
11-19-2013, 07:11 AM
#21
did you try and adjust MC rod to allow for more travel?
I am not familiar with the "shim"part but understand why on the LS cars. Is there a diffrent thickness (more) shim you could put in that would give the TO bearing more throw?
If your pedal is rock hard, sounds like your rebuild worked
I hear good reports on the TICK MC. The ones McLeod sells are Wilwood with the "adapter" part made by McLeod. It is also a very nice unit.
I am not familiar with the "shim"part but understand why on the LS cars. Is there a diffrent thickness (more) shim you could put in that would give the TO bearing more throw?
If your pedal is rock hard, sounds like your rebuild worked
I hear good reports on the TICK MC. The ones McLeod sells are Wilwood with the "adapter" part made by McLeod. It is also a very nice unit.
Shimmed for a 1/16" gap between the TOB and the fingers.
The TICK MC has a 7/8" bore (more fluid to move the slave given same travel). The McLeod I have is a 13/16" bore and is adjustable but might still be the culprit.
Occam's Razor: The simplest answer is often correct.
First gear was hard to get into for months. [wear on the clutch]
MC Cup failed in traffic. [wear from the design and use possible failing clutch not moving]
I've rebuilt the MC. [Holds pressure and system bled/car up on stands]
I've Replace the Slave. [No difference]
I've re-shimmed the slave. [wear/different part/no difference]
Hypothesis:
The clutch has failed.
The disk is sticking to the plate. But while running I can stop the rear wheels let off the brake and the wheels spin up again. Therefore not stuck, the Slave is not releasing.
Plan:
Take it down and Thrash the setup as is for a few days. See if the plate lets go of the disk by finding its place. Maybe there is trapped air I can work free and bleed out.
Or.
Tear down the clutch. Assess. Tick MC, new clutch, etc.
This is getting old.
Last edited by Tboh; 11-19-2013 at 07:17 AM.
11-19-2013, 01:42 PM
#22
I doubt your disc is somehow sticking to PP/FW because you can stop tires while spining and car does not stall.
you have a disengagement issue....but obviously frustrated as to the "why".
Taking the car out for a clutch beating may be emotionally satisfying but I suspect pulling out the clutch for look/measurement is needed.
maybe the disc has worn to the point that even with the spacer for TO bearing it just does not allow enough travel to disengage it anymore. maybe the combined disc/PP/FW wear is just not allowing the TO bearing to depress the clutch far enough to disengage. maybe the PP is f up somehow
...or
even though the pedal feels rock hard and you think it is bleed...air could still be in MC. Your description does indicate it is bleed completely from pedal feel....just thinking out loud.
with a adjustable MC (of any brand) you should have enough travel adjustment to allow slave to travel enough to disengage. The Tick @ 7/8" will be a slightly heavier pedal feel over the 13/16" one you have but yes will push more volume of fluid
11-19-2013, 06:59 PM
#23
Man I know the feeling. My T56 conversion and later McLeod Twin install was certainly not "plug & play" and I pulled tranny & clutch more times than I care to think....but in the end when I got it all right it was/is great.
I doubt your disc is somehow sticking to PP/FW because you can stop tires while spining and car does not stall.
you have a disengagement issue....but obviously frustrated as to the "why".
Taking the car out for a clutch beating may be emotionally satisfying but I suspect pulling out the clutch for look/measurement is needed.
maybe the disc has worn to the point that even with the spacer for TO bearing it just does not allow enough travel to disengage it anymore. maybe the combined disc/PP/FW wear is just not allowing the TO bearing to depress the clutch far enough to disengage. maybe the PP is f up somehow
...or
even though the pedal feels rock hard and you think it is bleed...air could still be in MC. Your description does indicate it is bleed completely from pedal feel....just thinking out loud.
with a adjustable MC (of any brand) you should have enough travel adjustment to allow slave to travel enough to disengage. The Tick @ 7/8" will be a slightly heavier pedal feel over the 13/16" one you have but yes will push more volume of fluid
I doubt your disc is somehow sticking to PP/FW because you can stop tires while spining and car does not stall.
you have a disengagement issue....but obviously frustrated as to the "why".
Taking the car out for a clutch beating may be emotionally satisfying but I suspect pulling out the clutch for look/measurement is needed.
maybe the disc has worn to the point that even with the spacer for TO bearing it just does not allow enough travel to disengage it anymore. maybe the combined disc/PP/FW wear is just not allowing the TO bearing to depress the clutch far enough to disengage. maybe the PP is f up somehow
...or
even though the pedal feels rock hard and you think it is bleed...air could still be in MC. Your description does indicate it is bleed completely from pedal feel....just thinking out loud.
with a adjustable MC (of any brand) you should have enough travel adjustment to allow slave to travel enough to disengage. The Tick @ 7/8" will be a slightly heavier pedal feel over the 13/16" one you have but yes will push more volume of fluid
11-19-2013, 09:55 PM
#24
You have pulled the tranny for tthe slave swap before, that is the hardest part. From there it is just un-bolting bellhousing then clutch. If clutch is toast, pull FW and have it turned and replace pilot bearing.
11-20-2013, 08:34 AM
#25
I'm going to do a tear down and take a look. If it's bad I'll probably do the LS7 FW and setup.
It did seem easier the second time. Even the top bolts were easier to access. You would think pulling a trans was hard but not so with the T56.
Are the bolts on the FW and PP Torque to yield or not? I imagine they are not or there would be reports of the reused ones failing but I see nothing in a search.
Still might be worth a thrashing just for that satisfaction, ha ha.
Thanks for the advise...
T
It did seem easier the second time. Even the top bolts were easier to access. You would think pulling a trans was hard but not so with the T56.
Are the bolts on the FW and PP Torque to yield or not? I imagine they are not or there would be reports of the reused ones failing but I see nothing in a search.
Still might be worth a thrashing just for that satisfaction, ha ha.
Thanks for the advise...
T
11-20-2013, 11:55 AM
#26
I doubt it. At least on LT1 they are not.
Often new clutch/FW kits come with them. FWIW I have reused mine multiple times. My McLeod Twin came with new so that is what I have now.
check into the LS7 unit. I may be wrong but I believe I read the PP is a self adjusting deal that can cause issues with high RPM shifts. I may be wrong but check into it.
Monster seems to be a popular choice for LS cars. I have no experience with their product as they don't make anything for the LT1 platform.
Often new clutch/FW kits come with them. FWIW I have reused mine multiple times. My McLeod Twin came with new so that is what I have now.
check into the LS7 unit. I may be wrong but I believe I read the PP is a self adjusting deal that can cause issues with high RPM shifts. I may be wrong but check into it.
Monster seems to be a popular choice for LS cars. I have no experience with their product as they don't make anything for the LT1 platform.
03-16-2014, 10:46 AM
#27
Update:
I finally got it rolling. LS7 clutch to go with my rebuilt MC, new slave and the TIC remote bleeder.
When I broke it down I found the McCleod disk to be nearly worn down to the rivets but better yet there was a spring being chewed up by the Flywheel, Yes!. Good news when you have a mystery IMHO.
The FW and PP bolted in with no issues. Other than doing it one hour at a time once a week or two, one handed, it was an easy job. (Pain) I needed to make a FW clamp to prevent rotation so I could remove and then install the 6 bolts. They are not TTY, reused them. A 5" bar with a hole for the FW bolt and a 4" bolt floating in a bell housing bolt hole to prevent rotation worked well. Lathe Dog like.
I was missing a bell housing bolt, like it was never there or missed since the McCleod install 10 years ago. I bought a 1.5mm threaded bolt to replace it, went to install the housing and the missing bolt was in the pile. It must have been sitting on the trans and dropped free after being dropped or something by the installer. Still can't figure that out. wow. (Waste of $2
)
The rebuilt adjustable MC, old style McLeod, is functioning perfectly. I have the engagement point right where I want it. There is a slight palpable clunk when the clutch takes up when cold, I hope its just adjusting itself but if it stays I can learn to feather past it. It's good when hot. The LS7 engages smoother than any clutch including the OE. I have stock like clutch pressure on my foot with an OE MC spring in the rebuilt McCleod MC.
TICK remote bleeder. If you don't have one, Get it. Good product saves one million headaches (and neck pains). Bleeding the system is not that big a deal on my car. Instead of using the check valve. Pressure the system with a single pump, hold, crack it off and bleed it down like a brake bleed.
Thanks for the help guys.
This site rules the interwebs.
T
I finally got it rolling. LS7 clutch to go with my rebuilt MC, new slave and the TIC remote bleeder.
When I broke it down I found the McCleod disk to be nearly worn down to the rivets but better yet there was a spring being chewed up by the Flywheel, Yes!. Good news when you have a mystery IMHO.
The FW and PP bolted in with no issues. Other than doing it one hour at a time once a week or two, one handed, it was an easy job. (Pain) I needed to make a FW clamp to prevent rotation so I could remove and then install the 6 bolts. They are not TTY, reused them. A 5" bar with a hole for the FW bolt and a 4" bolt floating in a bell housing bolt hole to prevent rotation worked well. Lathe Dog like.
I was missing a bell housing bolt, like it was never there or missed since the McCleod install 10 years ago. I bought a 1.5mm threaded bolt to replace it, went to install the housing and the missing bolt was in the pile. It must have been sitting on the trans and dropped free after being dropped or something by the installer. Still can't figure that out. wow. (Waste of $2
)The rebuilt adjustable MC, old style McLeod, is functioning perfectly. I have the engagement point right where I want it. There is a slight palpable clunk when the clutch takes up when cold, I hope its just adjusting itself but if it stays I can learn to feather past it. It's good when hot. The LS7 engages smoother than any clutch including the OE. I have stock like clutch pressure on my foot with an OE MC spring in the rebuilt McCleod MC.
TICK remote bleeder. If you don't have one, Get it. Good product saves one million headaches (and neck pains). Bleeding the system is not that big a deal on my car. Instead of using the check valve. Pressure the system with a single pump, hold, crack it off and bleed it down like a brake bleed.
Thanks for the help guys.
This site rules the interwebs.
T
Last edited by Tboh; 03-16-2014 at 10:51 AM.
