Monster Stage 3 Disk Failure
Monster Stage 3 Disk Failure Just curious if anyone has seen a similar failure in the clutch disk?
Here is the disk. Started making a metallic grinding noise 2 nights ago so i pulled it apart and found 4 springs loose. As you can see, the rest of the springs weren't far behind.
This clutch has about 10K miles on it, with 40 ish passes on slicks.
Here's the kicker; Its in a 2700# Car, that makes 420 lbft of torque to the tires.
The pilot bushing was worn in an oval shape, making me initially think it was a trans issue. Checked the runout on the input shaft - less than .001". Also checked end play, and had none (was set up with preload when recently rebuilt).
In my mind, this completely rules out the trans, yes? I was told by a monster rep that you can't accurately get a runout on the shaft unless its out of the trans, on a lathe. I can see that when you're talking halves of thousandths, but I would assume you would be able to see SOMETHING on a bench?
For reference here are the PP / FW. Both are in great shape.
Can anyone give me some insight? I bought a new disk, but what can I do to keep it from happening again?
HALP
Here is the disk. Started making a metallic grinding noise 2 nights ago so i pulled it apart and found 4 springs loose. As you can see, the rest of the springs weren't far behind.
This clutch has about 10K miles on it, with 40 ish passes on slicks.
Here's the kicker; Its in a 2700# Car, that makes 420 lbft of torque to the tires.
The pilot bushing was worn in an oval shape, making me initially think it was a trans issue. Checked the runout on the input shaft - less than .001". Also checked end play, and had none (was set up with preload when recently rebuilt).
In my mind, this completely rules out the trans, yes? I was told by a monster rep that you can't accurately get a runout on the shaft unless its out of the trans, on a lathe. I can see that when you're talking halves of thousandths, but I would assume you would be able to see SOMETHING on a bench?
For reference here are the PP / FW. Both are in great shape.
Can anyone give me some insight? I bought a new disk, but what can I do to keep it from happening again?
HALP
Which way was the disc facing? Cause it looks like it may been installed backwards as there's a groove cut into the face of the flywheel that matches where the springs are...
I like where your head's at. But no, The clutch was installed correctly, no grooves in the FW. The (once) green side was facing the rear.
Please elaborate. My issue is the first I've heard of this with monsters. I asked if it was common, and it was recognized that it happens, but wasn't said to be "common".
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From: Orlaanndoooo
I'm glad you have shared these pics with Monster first to get their input. A study of this failure would be quite incomplete without their input from the start. I like to see folks seeking answers and not just trying to whip up an ls1techstorm before talking to the manufacturer.
It seems, if one only reads about those cases where issues arise (also known as those who post), that anything bad that can happen...does happen. The same can be said for every brand of clutch out there. For every aftermarket part out there that fails there are hundreds that get installed, seated in, and are not heard from for a long long time. The OP did the right thing in contacting the subject matter experts, the manufacturer, first. I'm curious to see the autopsy and cause of death as determined by them.
It seems, if one only reads about those cases where issues arise (also known as those who post), that anything bad that can happen...does happen. The same can be said for every brand of clutch out there. For every aftermarket part out there that fails there are hundreds that get installed, seated in, and are not heard from for a long long time. The OP did the right thing in contacting the subject matter experts, the manufacturer, first. I'm curious to see the autopsy and cause of death as determined by them.
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SLP IROC-Z obviously you've got an issue with my company/product. Call me or email me and I'll be happy to go over any issues your friend or you have had. That said, I've got thousands of clutches out there with zero issues, so, to say all our clutches are have bad things happen is a bit ridiculous.
As far as the OP, you obviously know where we are on this. Considering the clutch is 3 years old and you've had the transmission out and serviced there is something going on. Running a pilot bushing isn't recommended with the T56. You said you pulled this 4,000 miles ago and all was well, when you pulled it this time the pilot bushing was ovaled. A disc isn't going to cause this. And the thing that causes a hub to come a part is resonation or a failed pilot bearing/bushing. Considering the pilot bushing was ovaled it is no surprise this happened. You cannot get an accurate measurement on runout unless the input shaft is removed from the transmission.
Just to reiterate, the ovaled pilot bushing killed the clutch, the input shaft wasn't being supported therefore the disc took the brunt of the vibration, etc. I don't care who's disc it is, if there is nothing supporting the end of the input shaft things like this are going to occur.
I would pull the input shaft and verify the runout. I would also have the transmission checked over when this is done. Make sure that everything is 100% before you put it back together. Also, put a pilot bearing in the car.
Just to reiterate, the ovaled pilot bushing killed the clutch, the input shaft wasn't being supported therefore the disc took the brunt of the vibration, etc. I don't care who's disc it is, if there is nothing supporting the end of the input shaft things like this are going to occur.
I would pull the input shaft and verify the runout. I would also have the transmission checked over when this is done. Make sure that everything is 100% before you put it back together. Also, put a pilot bearing in the car.
I would pull the input shaft and verify the runout. I would also have the transmission checked over when this is done. Make sure that everything is 100% before you put it back together. Also, put a pilot bearing in the car.
However, I don't really want to pull the transmission completely apart with zero evidence of a problem (no runout when bench tested, and no end play in the input shaft, no vibrations). The trans was "serviced" to remedy the notorious 5/6 vibration, and that is the only thing that changed. Not like it was a trashcan full of gears.
That being said, I simply find it hard to believe that there would be an issue with the input shaft large enough to cause this, and I would not have any vibrations whatsoever.
Is it possible that the bushing just gave up, allowed more play, and the clutch disk was just a casualty?
I was extremely happy with my clutch until this little hickup.
What is the break in procedure on the new disk? Is it the same as an entire new clutch assy, or no?
To whom it may concern, I'm not expecting them to warranty the disk completely. I really just want an answer to why this happened in the first place.
Last edited by STEEPSS; Sep 24, 2013 at 11:37 AM.
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, the ovaled pilot bushing killed the clutch, the input shaft wasn't being supported therefore the disc took the brunt of the vibration, etc. I don't care who's disc it is, if there is nothing supporting the end of the input shaft things like this are going to occur.
. Also, put a pilot bearing in the car.
. Also, put a pilot bearing in the car.
the clutch manufacturer stated why the disc failed. "your" pilot BUSHING was ovaled thus not supporting the input shaft which allowed the clutch to walk and eventually shiat itself.
Now you need to find out "why" your pilot bushing wore as it did. It could be to much run out of the shaft either slightly tweaked or bad front bearing. You claim .001 runout while trans is assembled.....which may be accurate but it is very hard to tell without physically pulling the shaft.
I would look closer at your transmission mount/x-member (assume it is some hybrid to run the motor/trans combo in the Z. Maybe your tranny is shifting and killing the bushing
BTW, T 56 wants the pilot "BEARING" vs bushing. That alone may resolve your issue but again...closely inspect your rear tranny mount for wear and x-member for any potential flexing
I would have the FW resurfaced and take some Emery cloth to the PP for the new disc
On a note about your particular Monster disc...IMHO "I" would like to see Monster use a hub that wraps more around the springs vs the "tabs" like your disc has. I believe I have seen this type of hub on other clutch products they offer
pic is an example of what I mean. pic is not a Monster disc.
******, thanks. My trans mount is poly and in good shape. There is nowhere for it to go. I will probably go back in with a bearing just to be safe, and check it in a couple thousand miles
I like the hub you showed.
I like the hub you showed.
I am not doubting the fact that the failed pilot bushing and the issue with the clutch disk are related.
However, I don't really want to pull the transmission completely apart with zero evidence of a problem (no runout when bench tested, and no end play in the input shaft, no vibrations). The trans was "serviced" to remedy the notorious 5/6 vibration, and that is the only thing that changed. Not like it was a trashcan full of gears.
That being said, I simply find it hard to believe that there would be an issue with the input shaft large enough to cause this, and I would not have any vibrations whatsoever.
Is it possible that the bushing just gave up, allowed more play, and the clutch disk was just a casualty?
I was extremely happy with my clutch until this little hickup.
What is the break in procedure on the new disk? Is it the same as an entire new clutch assy, or no?
To whom it may concern, I'm not expecting them to warranty the disk completely. I really just want an answer to why this happened in the first place.
However, I don't really want to pull the transmission completely apart with zero evidence of a problem (no runout when bench tested, and no end play in the input shaft, no vibrations). The trans was "serviced" to remedy the notorious 5/6 vibration, and that is the only thing that changed. Not like it was a trashcan full of gears.
That being said, I simply find it hard to believe that there would be an issue with the input shaft large enough to cause this, and I would not have any vibrations whatsoever.
Is it possible that the bushing just gave up, allowed more play, and the clutch disk was just a casualty?
I was extremely happy with my clutch until this little hickup.
What is the break in procedure on the new disk? Is it the same as an entire new clutch assy, or no?
To whom it may concern, I'm not expecting them to warranty the disk completely. I really just want an answer to why this happened in the first place.
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As for the OP, Is that a Monster Flywheel? It doesnt look like one. Infact it looks a little flat in the middle and it appears the disc flange was making contact with it.
I have done damage to a clutch just like yours. I'm not insinuating thats what happened, but when I destroyed the supports for the springs and had one pop out, it was because I had the TO bearing mal-adjusted.
Yes, mine looks the same on the other side.
Yep, its a 28# monster. I can assure you the FW is fine, its just the angles that I was taking pictures at.
That's the way all encapsulated springs pack covers are that I've seen. You force the would be "removed" spring to the inside of the flywheel eliminating the possibility of it ejecting out of the bell housing, etc. Could you make one that was like that inside and out and is there some? I'm sure. Is it necessary? No.
They must have changed the flywheel design. They don't look like that anymore. If I were you, I would buy a whole new kit . Bearing and all