Let's talk about lightweight clutch/Flywheel combo's
02-26-2017, 03:26 PM
#201
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Well I've been considering the rps twin and the McLeod magforce twin. I also been considering an actual slipper clutch. The rps has the carbon disc's and the magforce will have the iron style discs. I've also considered a 7.25 tilton but I think the discs are not thick enough.
Spec has a decent mini twin 7.25. Look at rebuild prices of each one. It costs me about $400 to freshen up my tilton wuth new discs and floaters.
When a clutch is a multipiece unit...it shouldnt be difficult to rebuild...by replacing parts, as you would any of the other parts that need replaced.
Any steel inserts, at least when installed in aluminium flywheels tend to warp like **** in no time though. So for me a steel flywheel with no insert sounds like a more solid piece to begin with.
Any steel inserts, at least when installed in aluminium flywheels tend to warp like **** in no time though. So for me a steel flywheel with no insert sounds like a more solid piece to begin with.
It depends on the combination. Your potential looks to be around 1.40 60's and around 10.1 ET, given your 131 trap speed. To pull out that potential, your engine needs to be operating near/above it's torque peak for the duration of the run. Let's say you have 28" tires, 4.0 rear gear, and a 2.66 1st gear. Your clutch needs to be able to slip for at least 25' or 0.90 sec to maintain a minimum of 4800 rpm. The question then becomes, can your lightweight clutch/flywheel slip for 25' from a standing start @ WOT without damage?
I'm running a 26" tire, 4.00 rear gear and 2.66 first. I have your tamer....just need to get the car finished to give it a try.
02-26-2017, 05:03 PM
#202
TECH Fanatic
Hio, so I should forget about the carbon then and get the sintered iron. I think the mag force twin is more of what I've been leaning towards. It weighs just 23 lbs and uses the stock slave. I dunno tho, I might still go with a 3 disc 7.25 tilton. The issue with the tilton is getting the correct length slave/bearing and making the stock master adjustable. Quartermaster has a flexplate for use with a button clutch that weighs 3 or so pounds. I'm just not sure if they make it anymore.
02-26-2017, 06:49 PM
#203
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
The carbon stuff is nice and maybe a bit kinder on the street. But some of that stuff can get really pricey to rebuild. I have 3 carbon 7.25 tiltons that basically cost to much to rebuild it.
As far as the hydraulic release bearing goes.....not sure i would tryst a stock one with these types of clutches. Much more pressure plate on these things.
Mine and lazerlemons use a qtr master button with a auto flexplate that basically only functions as a starter ring. It's a very shallow button because the deeper button caused the triple disc tilton to be to far into the trans which placed it off the splines of a t56. Tr6060 has longer splines so it would not be a issue on those. On my car i run a qtr master trilite release bearing. I forget the height but could probably look it up. On lazerlemons we were trying to use a smaller bearing to make it a bit more progressive and went to a tilton 6000 release bearing. It's adjustable and they have one for a t56/6060 but it ended up being to short. We figured it out and made a 3/4 spacer to put under it with some junk i had laying around. That got us to a good enough height.
The spec mini twin is pretty fool proof by comparison. It comes with it's own release bearing set up.
You can pm me if you want to get a tilton set up. I can give you the part #s of what we used.
As far as the hydraulic release bearing goes.....not sure i would tryst a stock one with these types of clutches. Much more pressure plate on these things.
Mine and lazerlemons use a qtr master button with a auto flexplate that basically only functions as a starter ring. It's a very shallow button because the deeper button caused the triple disc tilton to be to far into the trans which placed it off the splines of a t56. Tr6060 has longer splines so it would not be a issue on those. On my car i run a qtr master trilite release bearing. I forget the height but could probably look it up. On lazerlemons we were trying to use a smaller bearing to make it a bit more progressive and went to a tilton 6000 release bearing. It's adjustable and they have one for a t56/6060 but it ended up being to short. We figured it out and made a 3/4 spacer to put under it with some junk i had laying around. That got us to a good enough height.
The spec mini twin is pretty fool proof by comparison. It comes with it's own release bearing set up.
You can pm me if you want to get a tilton set up. I can give you the part #s of what we used.
02-26-2017, 07:13 PM
#204
TECH Fanatic
The carbon stuff is nice and maybe a bit kinder on the street. But some of that stuff can get really pricey to rebuild. I have 3 carbon 7.25 tiltons that basically cost to much to rebuild it.
As far as the hydraulic release bearing goes.....not sure i would tryst a stock one with these types of clutches. Much more pressure plate on these things.
Mine and lazerlemons use a qtr master button with a auto flexplate that basically only functions as a starter ring. It's a very shallow button because the deeper button caused the triple disc tilton to be to far into the trans which placed it off the splines of a t56. Tr6060 has longer splines so it would not be a issue on those. On my car i run a qtr master trilite release bearing. I forget the height but could probably look it up. On lazerlemons we were trying to use a smaller bearing to make it a bit more progressive and went to a tilton 6000 release bearing. It's adjustable and they have one for a t56/6060 but it ended up being to short. We figured it out and made a 3/4 spacer to put under it with some junk i had laying around. That got us to a good enough height.
The spec mini twin is pretty fool proof by comparison. It comes with it's own release bearing set up.
You can pm me if you want to get a tilton set up. I can give you the part #s of what we used.
As far as the hydraulic release bearing goes.....not sure i would tryst a stock one with these types of clutches. Much more pressure plate on these things.
Mine and lazerlemons use a qtr master button with a auto flexplate that basically only functions as a starter ring. It's a very shallow button because the deeper button caused the triple disc tilton to be to far into the trans which placed it off the splines of a t56. Tr6060 has longer splines so it would not be a issue on those. On my car i run a qtr master trilite release bearing. I forget the height but could probably look it up. On lazerlemons we were trying to use a smaller bearing to make it a bit more progressive and went to a tilton 6000 release bearing. It's adjustable and they have one for a t56/6060 but it ended up being to short. We figured it out and made a 3/4 spacer to put under it with some junk i had laying around. That got us to a good enough height.
The spec mini twin is pretty fool proof by comparison. It comes with it's own release bearing set up.
You can pm me if you want to get a tilton set up. I can give you the part #s of what we used.
02-27-2017, 01:13 PM
#206
TECH Fanatic
I've heard a few bad things about spec but I've also seen good things with them. I like those mini twins, they look great and are light weight. I'm not willing to take the risk on a spec clutch or another monster clutch though. Clutch failures have been aggrivating with mine and dad's car. I like McLeod and what I've heard about how they handle a parts failure, im willing to take a risk on them, rps and I guess tilton.
02-27-2017, 04:24 PM
#207
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Well i wouldn't put a "regular" spec in anything. But the mini twin is a different beast. I had nathan put one in his bolt on car. It worked well. It's definitely not like that stage 3 junk.
02-27-2017, 07:12 PM
#208
TECH Fanatic
That's good to know, it looks like a nice clutch. How much did his weigh in at?
02-28-2017, 08:52 AM
#210
10 Second Club
It's around 18.5 lbs or so. I really like it. If I had a better diff I'm sure it would have helped propel me to a near 10 sec pass even at 2000 DA.
Now I don't dd the car at all because of my job it's not practical to use a car at all. After 2-3 years of abuse I decided to rebuild the clutch for maintenance reason. Few hundred bucks. But when I got it apart i Found that to be unecesary
Also, when I installed it I didn't need to shim the bearing at all. Lined up nearly perfect
Now I don't dd the car at all because of my job it's not practical to use a car at all. After 2-3 years of abuse I decided to rebuild the clutch for maintenance reason. Few hundred bucks. But when I got it apart i Found that to be unecesary
Also, when I installed it I didn't need to shim the bearing at all. Lined up nearly perfect
02-28-2017, 12:24 PM
#211
TECH Fanatic
18.5 lbs is great. That clutch keeps sounding better, it being that cheap to rebuild is a big win. That's one thing I've been considering is getting something that was cheap to rebuild. I assume this is the two disc they offer?
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
02-28-2017, 12:44 PM
#212
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18.5 lbs is great. That clutch keeps sounding better, it being that cheap to rebuild is a big win. That's one thing I've been considering is getting something that was cheap to rebuild. I assume this is the two disc they offer?
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
02-28-2017, 01:07 PM
#213
18.5 lbs is great. That clutch keeps sounding better, it being that cheap to rebuild is a big win. That's one thing I've been considering is getting something that was cheap to rebuild. I assume this is the two disc they offer?
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
02-28-2017, 02:15 PM
#214
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
18.5 lbs is great. That clutch keeps sounding better, it being that cheap to rebuild is a big win. That's one thing I've been considering is getting something that was cheap to rebuild. I assume this is the two disc they offer?
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
I'm gonna email McLeod and see what they say about the two disc mag force for drag racing and how thick their discs are. I'm not sure if the have the clutch assembly itself to be shimmed as the discs wear or what.
What I really want is a fully adjustable clutch but I have not seen any bellhousings out there that have an adjustment hole. I don't wanna cut up a bellhousing that costs 500+ bucks either. McLeod makes a street style adjustable clutch that looks promising and I can get it in just a single disc setup.
02-28-2017, 08:24 PM
#216
TECH Fanatic
The stock F-bomb slave can travel 13mm (just over half inch for the metrically challenged) If you measure from your fingers to the end of the bellhousing and again from the fully compressed slave to the transmission case, you want about 0.105"-0.125" gap. In other words, you want the pressure plate to bellhousing end measurement longer by .105-.125. You need about .250"-.300" travel IIRC to disengage the clutch. That leaves you a good 0.100" for clutch friction material wear. You can also cut your master cylinder rod, and add a turnbuckle to make it adjustable if you need additional travel near the end of life. Or move the rod to a lower attachment point on the pedal. HEavier feel, but move more fluid.
Nice, ill be looking forward to watching the vids.
I thought about doing that but I need a sfi bell with the access hole for an adjustable clutch(if I get one). It wouldn't be legal to run in the nmca series I run. I have a few stock bell's laying around I could use, I just don't think they would hold up after I cut a slot out. The quicktime bell I'm pretty sure would hold up but I don't wanna cut up a 500+ dollar bellhousing lol. Its looking like too much trouble so I think I'm just gonna use the clutchtamer with a non adjustable clutch.
03-01-2017, 04:53 PM
#217
10 Second Club
I was running a tamer on this clutch the last time at the track. Never did get a good run between setting the tamer and dealing with a floating valve but the tamer is going to work. I was running a tick master too which was just too aggressive so I put he stock one back in this winter
03-02-2017, 09:00 AM
#219
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...ON a heads/Cam LS1, surged like a ****. We had to make TONS of adjustments to idle speed, proportional, integral, derivative air, base air, idle speed, timing, etc. Literally took months to get it to settle to idle smoothly.
...On a Bolt on LS3 with stock cam and higher ratio rockers, we had to make a adjustments to the follower, proportional, and integral air and a slight increase in idle speed to get it settled down.
...On a FBO LS1, no changes were needed. I never actually worked with this one, but I talk to this guy regularly and I trust his judgement
NOBODY was unhappy with it though. THe quicker revs are very fun on the street. Very interested to see how this one reacts.
FWIW, I've got a new (to me) bone stock LS2 manual trans, and on return to idle, it dips to 550 for a quarter second and then settles on 700. SO at least on this computer, the return to idle routines are not quite optimized even for the stock clutch. So, I'm very interested to see if this one needs alot of tweaking or if it basically just takes the change like the FBO LS1 did.