T-56 six speed
06-06-2016, 12:20 AM
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T-56 six speed Hey Guys, new to the site. I have a 1955 210 post with a 93 Camaro T-56 six speed that I installed. Recently did a motor swap and have been having trouble regaining clutch disengagement. New master & slave with a new
Mc Cloud street strip clutch from summit. still no release. seems as though I can barely get it into forward gears when jacked off the ground, but definitely no reverse & when clutch is fully depressed I got a squeal from the throw out bearing which is intermittent at times. Just found a reman clutch fork on line and purchased it for $240. or so - so I will eliminate that wear possibility. On its way. The trans is next to pull. Probably going to buy a new flywheel since my one in it now was resurfaced & .020 ground down. I heard that the hydraulics would make that up, but I'm tired of going into Hot Rod season with my Hot Rod down & out. I did have clutch when first installed a month ago, but lost it after a couple of runs this past three weeks ago. Looked at the fluid coming out of slave & with everything new, fluid was black so replaced slave & bench bleed master & still no clutch??? Any suggestions guys or ladies before I yank the transmission? Possibly re bench bleed master since the angle it is on may of got an air bubble top side, but I do have a solid fluid stream coming out of slave with what seems to be a good pedal. Fluid seems Ok now & not black yet and Oh - when new slave was installed last night the plastic tabs broke on first pump of bleeding it so that sort of tells me that all is good on the bench bleed. Any help of things to check out would be appreciated! Could I have received a bad throw out bearing and if so wouldn't it still disengage? On standby.
Mc Cloud street strip clutch from summit. still no release. seems as though I can barely get it into forward gears when jacked off the ground, but definitely no reverse & when clutch is fully depressed I got a squeal from the throw out bearing which is intermittent at times. Just found a reman clutch fork on line and purchased it for $240. or so - so I will eliminate that wear possibility. On its way. The trans is next to pull. Probably going to buy a new flywheel since my one in it now was resurfaced & .020 ground down. I heard that the hydraulics would make that up, but I'm tired of going into Hot Rod season with my Hot Rod down & out. I did have clutch when first installed a month ago, but lost it after a couple of runs this past three weeks ago. Looked at the fluid coming out of slave & with everything new, fluid was black so replaced slave & bench bleed master & still no clutch??? Any suggestions guys or ladies before I yank the transmission? Possibly re bench bleed master since the angle it is on may of got an air bubble top side, but I do have a solid fluid stream coming out of slave with what seems to be a good pedal. Fluid seems Ok now & not black yet and Oh - when new slave was installed last night the plastic tabs broke on first pump of bleeding it so that sort of tells me that all is good on the bench bleed. Any help of things to check out would be appreciated! Could I have received a bad throw out bearing and if so wouldn't it still disengage? On standby.
06-06-2016, 11:16 AM
#2
the 55 sounds like a nice ride. A friend of mine has a 57 panel he put a 95 F-body drive train in (T56)
Most disengagement issues is because of hydraulics failing be it MC or slave. Difficult to bleed the system as it has no bleed screw provision on either MC or slave
The fact your set up worked initially but then failed suggests the initial install was good. I doubt the FW is the issue with .020 taken off. I have had FW resurfaced 3 times, no issues.
If you over TQ the PP bolts that will cause disengagement issues but you say initially that was good. TQ is 22 ft lbs on PP bolts and they are specific PP bolts so if you didn't use GM ones (not made anymore) or used the ARP set that could be a issue.
On bleeding you need to pull slave and let it hang and pump it by hand with 1/2 slow strokes from underneath the car. Have someone look from up top at reservoir for bubbles. Problem is depending on how you mounted MC that orientation can prevent air bubbles from getting out. I also have a car that did not come with a T56 and have a custom pedal assembly which has the fitting for the reservoir hose not at the highest point so I bench bleed the entire assembled hydraulics on the bench. Not sure if in your set up you can remove the system complete or have to disconnect braided line. On a stock F-body (your donor car) you can remove/install hydraulics as a complete system.
You can buy a new complete sealed hydraulic unit for around $125 at rock auto or auto part stores but likely more at auto part store. This takes the bleeding part off the table as it is a sealed system
Doubt your fork was or is bad and for what you paid for the fork...ouch but I understand they are extremely hard to find so you could get your $ back or hang on to it as finding another is very hard
TO bearing...well they are all China crap and are known to peel the lip back. Very hard to see this without pulling the trans. SPEC sells the square top one, still offshore, but it has a thicker top flange. IIRC they get around $80 for them. realistically there are many thousands of LT1 pull clutches running on the road all with the same TO bearing so they do work. Just sometimes the lip tears back. Can happen when people either over TQ PP bolts or have adjustable MC's and over extend the clutch with to much pedal travel.
Many, including me, do have aftermarket MC with adjustable rods so they can adjust the pedal out more to resolve disengagement issues. You do need to confirm hydraulics are bleed regardless
McLeod sells MC in 3/4" bore for camaro which is actually a Wilwood MC. McLeod just makes the angled mounting adapter and threaded rod. Very nice MC though but cost $. I use the 13/16" one for my McLeod Twin disc clutch.
Tick is another aftermarket MC people use. IIRC they use a Tilton MC for theirs
Most disengagement issues is because of hydraulics failing be it MC or slave. Difficult to bleed the system as it has no bleed screw provision on either MC or slave
The fact your set up worked initially but then failed suggests the initial install was good. I doubt the FW is the issue with .020 taken off. I have had FW resurfaced 3 times, no issues.
If you over TQ the PP bolts that will cause disengagement issues but you say initially that was good. TQ is 22 ft lbs on PP bolts and they are specific PP bolts so if you didn't use GM ones (not made anymore) or used the ARP set that could be a issue.
On bleeding you need to pull slave and let it hang and pump it by hand with 1/2 slow strokes from underneath the car. Have someone look from up top at reservoir for bubbles. Problem is depending on how you mounted MC that orientation can prevent air bubbles from getting out. I also have a car that did not come with a T56 and have a custom pedal assembly which has the fitting for the reservoir hose not at the highest point so I bench bleed the entire assembled hydraulics on the bench. Not sure if in your set up you can remove the system complete or have to disconnect braided line. On a stock F-body (your donor car) you can remove/install hydraulics as a complete system.
You can buy a new complete sealed hydraulic unit for around $125 at rock auto or auto part stores but likely more at auto part store. This takes the bleeding part off the table as it is a sealed system
Doubt your fork was or is bad and for what you paid for the fork...ouch but I understand they are extremely hard to find so you could get your $ back or hang on to it as finding another is very hard
TO bearing...well they are all China crap and are known to peel the lip back. Very hard to see this without pulling the trans. SPEC sells the square top one, still offshore, but it has a thicker top flange. IIRC they get around $80 for them. realistically there are many thousands of LT1 pull clutches running on the road all with the same TO bearing so they do work. Just sometimes the lip tears back. Can happen when people either over TQ PP bolts or have adjustable MC's and over extend the clutch with to much pedal travel.
Many, including me, do have aftermarket MC with adjustable rods so they can adjust the pedal out more to resolve disengagement issues. You do need to confirm hydraulics are bleed regardless
McLeod sells MC in 3/4" bore for camaro which is actually a Wilwood MC. McLeod just makes the angled mounting adapter and threaded rod. Very nice MC though but cost $. I use the 13/16" one for my McLeod Twin disc clutch.
Tick is another aftermarket MC people use. IIRC they use a Tilton MC for theirs
06-16-2016, 06:15 AM
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T-56 Mcleod Hello Baddass, thanks for all of your information. Ended up with a bunch of mumble jumble from Summit Racing on warranty issues with the Junk Mcleod clutch kit that I recently put in. The $650. dollar one. Bottom line was that the throw out bearing tabs had broke off and toasted my flywheel and clutch. The throw out bearing looked as though it fell out of the plane from China into my car. I had thought that it did have a cheap ungreased appearance when I initially installed it, well it did. Second time around I went with a centerforce organic and the tabs that retain the throw out bearing into the fingers do look a bit thicker. Any sugesstions on the best clutch package or I should say " Best throw out bearing" as in super heavy duty for the future? So far the centerforce seems fairly stout. I lost Mcleod clutch after close to 500 miles on the rebuild, and have not as of yet even put 200 on the Centerforce. I'm sure that all of my clutch adjustments are correct as far as no preload on pedal etc. Bled system correctly. Only issue is that I used dot3 synthetic and it seems to have turned the fluid from the slave black quickly from some unknown source. Recently bleed some 500 plus degree high temp wilwood fluid for brakes and clutch master cylinders at 10 bucks a small bottle. Bought two bottles but only used one to regain fresh fluid through the slave. Haven't tested it yet as it has been droopy and rainy for the past week. Any input on what may cause the blackish issues? Cheap aluminum slave? As I recall, the slave is a cast after market cardone with a bleeder allen socket set and not the factory plastic one but the master is a wilwood 260-6089. I'll get er figured out one of these days. St. Ignace Michigan car show next week 2016. Big Show. Can't wait. Be there or be square.
06-16-2016, 11:22 AM
#5
dave
does not matter what clutch kit you buy from auto parts store brand, McLeod, centerforce, etc....they all have the same China made POS TO bearing. As you experienced the lip has come off or bent back for some people. With that said there are 100's of thousands of LT1 pull clutches on the road running that same TO bearing
The only other option is to get the "square top" TO bearing that came with the LT4 Vette clutch. The PP on all these clutch kits is the LT4 vs LT1 version but not the original Valeo made, they are also all offshore made so it really comes down to the disc being made by whatever clutch brand. Centerforce has that "sliding" weight thing they do. Not really on-board with that system, especially on a LT1/4 "pull" clutch as it supposed function is to add more clamp force at RPM...which translates to more effort to release it.
Some clutch companies claim they "modify" the PP for more clamp force by altering the angle of the fingers on the diaphragm. McLeod does not do this for the LT1 but SPEC claims they do. ClutchNet does also and I saw how they do it at their shop
On the TO bearing thing you can buy the square top one from SPEC for around $80 IIRC. I have one but from a clutch I had previously installed. It has a thicker top flange. See pics
does not matter what clutch kit you buy from auto parts store brand, McLeod, centerforce, etc....they all have the same China made POS TO bearing. As you experienced the lip has come off or bent back for some people. With that said there are 100's of thousands of LT1 pull clutches on the road running that same TO bearing
The only other option is to get the "square top" TO bearing that came with the LT4 Vette clutch. The PP on all these clutch kits is the LT4 vs LT1 version but not the original Valeo made, they are also all offshore made so it really comes down to the disc being made by whatever clutch brand. Centerforce has that "sliding" weight thing they do. Not really on-board with that system, especially on a LT1/4 "pull" clutch as it supposed function is to add more clamp force at RPM...which translates to more effort to release it.
Some clutch companies claim they "modify" the PP for more clamp force by altering the angle of the fingers on the diaphragm. McLeod does not do this for the LT1 but SPEC claims they do. ClutchNet does also and I saw how they do it at their shop
On the TO bearing thing you can buy the square top one from SPEC for around $80 IIRC. I have one but from a clutch I had previously installed. It has a thicker top flange. See pics
06-22-2016, 08:12 PM
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Dave, we're glad to hear that out unit is working well for you!
******, our clutches equipped with the centrifugal weight systems all usually have about the same pedal pressure as stock or lighter, even at higher RPMs. The weights at full spread dont transfer to much weight at the pedal, but do make significant difference in clamping force!
******, our clutches equipped with the centrifugal weight systems all usually have about the same pedal pressure as stock or lighter, even at higher RPMs. The weights at full spread dont transfer to much weight at the pedal, but do make significant difference in clamping force!