RAM Fitment Issues
06-22-2004, 11:41 AM
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RAM Fitment Issues Got a RAM 402/980 from New Era around six weeks ago and it has sat in my garage until I got the time to yank the entire rear part of the car off to install it (this is how it's done on the 'vettes). Everything came out fine, got the flywheel turned and started putting it back together and the friggin' pressure plate will not bolt up to the flywheel. Tried turning the PP in relation to the FW but no go. Took the flywheel off and it is clear that one of the holes on the pressure plate is ~.100" off! 
I'll post a pic when I get a chance.
Since it was the weekend I picked up a SPEC locally to try to get the car together before the weekend was out but I never got it buttoned up anyway. Called New Era on Monday and said that I wanted to return the RAM since the holes did not line up and I had lost confidence with their manufacturing process if they are going to let crap like that out of the shop, but no go since it was six weeks old. They offered to replace it with one that they verified fit the holes on a PP they had which is fair (ideally they would have refunded but I suppose I can see their side) so I'm waiting for the new RAM to get to me (3-4 days) and hopefully it will go in but I am still sketchy on RAM's manufacturing process.
The thing with the RAM's is they do not use the locating pins to center themselves to the FW. Three of the six pressure plate holes are just large enough for the bolts to go through and this is how they choose to locate/center the PP to the flywheel. I called RAM and they said they had never hear of one not lining up. When I asked if they had a jig to drill the holes or what the process was they said that the supplier sends the plates to them and the plates are drilled prior to stamping. Seems like this would allow for a good bit of tolerence variation so I asked if they QA the plates when they come from their supplier. Nope.
So I'm awaiting the second RAM but I'm still not confident in it. I am going to balance the unit before putting it in just to make sure. I got the RAM because of the good reviews of it compared to the chattery SPEC Stage 3 but I didn't even look at the "chatterless" SPEC Stage 2 until I had the issue with the RAM. Think I should have gone that route as it is rated to hold as much as the RAM 402/980.
Just an FYI for those looking at different clutches.
I'll post a pic when I get a chance.Since it was the weekend I picked up a SPEC locally to try to get the car together before the weekend was out but I never got it buttoned up anyway. Called New Era on Monday and said that I wanted to return the RAM since the holes did not line up and I had lost confidence with their manufacturing process if they are going to let crap like that out of the shop, but no go since it was six weeks old. They offered to replace it with one that they verified fit the holes on a PP they had which is fair (ideally they would have refunded but I suppose I can see their side) so I'm waiting for the new RAM to get to me (3-4 days) and hopefully it will go in but I am still sketchy on RAM's manufacturing process.
The thing with the RAM's is they do not use the locating pins to center themselves to the FW. Three of the six pressure plate holes are just large enough for the bolts to go through and this is how they choose to locate/center the PP to the flywheel. I called RAM and they said they had never hear of one not lining up. When I asked if they had a jig to drill the holes or what the process was they said that the supplier sends the plates to them and the plates are drilled prior to stamping. Seems like this would allow for a good bit of tolerence variation so I asked if they QA the plates when they come from their supplier. Nope.
So I'm awaiting the second RAM but I'm still not confident in it. I am going to balance the unit before putting it in just to make sure. I got the RAM because of the good reviews of it compared to the chattery SPEC Stage 3 but I didn't even look at the "chatterless" SPEC Stage 2 until I had the issue with the RAM. Think I should have gone that route as it is rated to hold as much as the RAM 402/980.
Just an FYI for those looking at different clutches.
Last edited by 5 Liter Eater; 06-22-2004 at 11:49 AM.
06-22-2004, 01:29 PM
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I guess if you want a RAM, the best way is the buy the VDS. It comes pre-assembled from Ram. The pressure plate holes are centered on studs, if you use a stock flywheel you're supposed to modify the flywheel holes and use shouldered bolts if I recall.
06-23-2004, 02:57 PM
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Bill,
I suspect, althrough we have not got the unit back yet, that the clutch may have been dropped in transit and bent one of the ears on the cover, and this is why it did not line up. Thats the only reason I could see for this to be happening, and I have seen it before...
As for the alignment, the pressure plate holes are sized to the metric factory bolts and should be used in conjunction with the factory mounting holes. The covers from the stamper do come with two sized holes, why this is nobody has ever been able to explain to me. We open the holes to fit precisely with the metric bolts so the cover still centers properly and does not cause any balance issues by shifting on the bolts.
I suspect, althrough we have not got the unit back yet, that the clutch may have been dropped in transit and bent one of the ears on the cover, and this is why it did not line up. Thats the only reason I could see for this to be happening, and I have seen it before...
As for the alignment, the pressure plate holes are sized to the metric factory bolts and should be used in conjunction with the factory mounting holes. The covers from the stamper do come with two sized holes, why this is nobody has ever been able to explain to me. We open the holes to fit precisely with the metric bolts so the cover still centers properly and does not cause any balance issues by shifting on the bolts.
06-24-2004, 03:15 PM
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Yep, thats exactly what happened. When the plate is set on a flat surface it rocks because the cover edge you marked is bent inwards. Classic 'hit the deck in shipping' damage. Glad Mike got you the replacement!
06-29-2004, 08:02 PM
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Well, the story gets better. My replacement clutch got here around noon last Friday. I had dropped my flywheel off to be balanced while I was waiting for the replacement to get here. I asked him if he could balance the pressure plate and flywheel as a unit and he agreed so I ran it over to him. I get a call about an hour later from him saying that he can get 5 of the six bolts in, but not the last one. Tried many different ways but it's always that same hole.
Could not F---ing believe it. Same damn problem I had with the first one! Mike @ New Era had even put this one up against an aftermarket flywheel prior to shipping and said that it looked like it lined up although it's tough to tell until you actually start putting bolts in it. Asked the balancer if it could be the flywheel that is off and he said no way. He said he could drill out the one hole that was off but there would not be a lot of material left as the hole needed to be opened up towards the outside of the pressure plate. I said go ahead if you can gaurantee it will mount true to the flywheel and balance. He made the hole bigger towards the outside of the pressure plate and balanced it. Now RAM says their plates are zero balanced from them and I had already had the flywheel zero balanced after having it turned so that must not be true since he had to weld a good amount of weights to the pressure plate.
When I got it home I verified that the flywheel bolt holes were all within ~.010" from the outermost part of the hole radius to the end of the machined surface of the flywheel so I can safely say that it was not the flywheel that was out. This means that:
A. This clutch was dropped in the exact same way the last one was
B. Ram let a bad batch of pressure plates out and I got two of them
I would suggest to them SOME type of QA process since I have been told that they have none and to package their clutches better if they are confident that both my plates were dropped/bent.
Bottom line is that the clutch is in and it works. Can't say exactly how well yet as I'm still breaking it in. I don't have a vibration since it was balanced as a unit but I would not have been comfortable drilling the hole out myself without having it balanced. If I had waited until Friday night to start bolting it up without having it balanced and ran into the exact same problem I had last weekend I would have without a doubt thrown it in the trash and gotten a SPEC.
Could not F---ing believe it. Same damn problem I had with the first one! Mike @ New Era had even put this one up against an aftermarket flywheel prior to shipping and said that it looked like it lined up although it's tough to tell until you actually start putting bolts in it. Asked the balancer if it could be the flywheel that is off and he said no way. He said he could drill out the one hole that was off but there would not be a lot of material left as the hole needed to be opened up towards the outside of the pressure plate. I said go ahead if you can gaurantee it will mount true to the flywheel and balance. He made the hole bigger towards the outside of the pressure plate and balanced it. Now RAM says their plates are zero balanced from them and I had already had the flywheel zero balanced after having it turned so that must not be true since he had to weld a good amount of weights to the pressure plate.
When I got it home I verified that the flywheel bolt holes were all within ~.010" from the outermost part of the hole radius to the end of the machined surface of the flywheel so I can safely say that it was not the flywheel that was out. This means that:
A. This clutch was dropped in the exact same way the last one was
B. Ram let a bad batch of pressure plates out and I got two of them
I would suggest to them SOME type of QA process since I have been told that they have none and to package their clutches better if they are confident that both my plates were dropped/bent.
Bottom line is that the clutch is in and it works. Can't say exactly how well yet as I'm still breaking it in. I don't have a vibration since it was balanced as a unit but I would not have been comfortable drilling the hole out myself without having it balanced. If I had waited until Friday night to start bolting it up without having it balanced and ran into the exact same problem I had last weekend I would have without a doubt thrown it in the trash and gotten a SPEC.
07-01-2004, 03:59 PM
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Bill - did the clutch arrive in a master carton or just the set box? If only the set box, this is the problem. It is NOT designed to be a shipping carton, it has to be master packed first. This is how WE ship them out...