AMP-D

I read it somewhere but can't recall specifically.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Thanks for confirming.

AMP-D

LMAO..... you have not a clue who I am

And with that I will bow out of this conversation to let you guys carry on as if its 1969 all over again.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

With your posts and "data", I know all I need to know. GLW replacing input shafts

stevieturbo

The thread does seem to show there are failures with both methods.

And as AMP has all these parts and gears manufactured....I'm sure he can supply repair parts either way

ElQueFør

I think that FOMOCO actually reasoned it would be cheaper to let people get killed in pintos and similar platform cars, and pay off the lawsuits, than to retool their assembly line and go about it that way. It seems to me that all of the big OEMs are pretty "bean counter". I think at some point even, that one could argue GM was worse in that regard.

Dude, come on man, don't take it personally if you don't agree with some of us here. You're seem like a smart guy who genuinely wants to help. I'm going to paraphrase (very poorly) a quote from Thomas Paine.... "Two men who think alike, are two men who have not thought at at all". People like
ddnspider, jmd, and myself all favor the bushing becuase it has worked well for us, and we have all been through the woes of a pilot bearing. Like I said, in my case, a properly sourced and installed pilot bearing took out and input shaft, clutch disc, and, nearly a FW and PP also...

If you, or anyone else wants so suggest a pilot bearing to someone else, or run one yourself. We're not going to stop you! We will offer our experience and input and maybe sprinkle in a little sarcastic satire but we (I) don't intend to alienate or offend anyone. I will challenge you, and everyone else, for whatever you think. And as a courtesy, I expect the same in return

We're all on the same team here man.


Of interest I think, when I google "pilot bushing fail", most of what comes up in an image search are failed pilot bearings.

So, I don't know if this thread does show failures with both methods. Corvetteflorida has posted some stuff, but like I said, to me at least, his bushing didn't look totally destroyed... And the input for his torque tube looked pretty good for a car from what 2005, and it's also boosted I believe? Granted there are a lot of unknown variables in that case but still....

02redchevy

No. The l88s 302s and ls6s of the day would Rev out to 7k

ElQueFør

Good point. A buddy of mine has a Chevy II with a 283..... It doesn't have a redline lol... You shift when the valves start to float lol...

02redchevy

I haven't had my big block float valves yet.. surprisingly. I am going to be using a ram bushing in mine. I can't wait to get it in.

corvetteflorida

Just a note that I got in the new torque tube input shaft from RPM Transmissions on Thursday, and just for grins I tried fitting a new pilot bushing and a new ACDelco pilot bearing onto the end of the shaft. The bushing had a whole lot more play between the bushing and the shaft than the bearing did. Noticeable wobble of the bushing when set onto the shaft. So yeah, I'm definitely going with the bearing this time.

ElQueFør

Sounds like you're the proud owner of another cheap, inferior quality bushing to add to your collection. I snagged a bronze bushing at the parts store and pulled a spare T56 input shaft out of the LS junk pile in order to measure them. This T56 input shaft is weeeeeeeeellllllll used also.

Pilot tip of input shaft measures: .590"
Pilot bushing measures: .591"

Don't think it could be much tighter than that lol. Don't think I'd want it to either!



Hecho en Estados Unidos.

corvetteflorida

Yeah, that looks like a good fit. I haven't measured any of the pilot bushings I have laying around here, but a Dorman 14650 bushing that I have right here on my desk is showing a printed spec on the packaging of 0.594". From what I have been told, and measured myself, 0.590" is GM spec on the stub of the input shaft.

ElQueFør

Cool. I hope you can get your car back together however you choose to do so and also, that it works out as you desire.... Keep us updated. We are all here to help.

Something else occurred to me.... That bushing that I posted is probably .001" larger on purpose, because, they are anticipating the fact that once it is driven into place it will crush down a little bit..... When I have installed that same bushing in the past, I have taken either a clutch alignment tool, (or even better, a spare T56 input shaft) and slid it in and out of the bushing & clutch hub splines after driving the bushing into the crank, but BEFORE installing the trans...... Doing this you can see a very tiny amount of brass flakes come off of the pilot bushing as the pilot tool or input shaft "finds its home".

I have not measured that Dorman bushing.... At least not recently enough that I remember it..... But, .004" isn't going to go away from pressing it in even when the bushing crushes down a little bit from pressing it in..... Still probably wouldn't be enough to matter I don't think....... Keep in mind, .004" is BARELY more than your average single sheet of notebook paper which measures about .003"........ Tight is good, and even preferable in some cases...... But loose is good and preferable in others also....... Just depends on what you're doing really.... And truthfully, there will be a fairly wide margin of error in which anything that any of us do, it will work just fine...... I mean, we're not taking our LS 6 speed rides to the moon........ Not yet at least lol.......

IMO, talking 6 speed specifics...... Tapered roller bearings like ALL of our 6 speeds use on the inside..... (Most) of the bearings in these 6 speeds SHOULD be preloaded and fairly on the tight side......... (This goes against what Tremec specifies, but I learned that trick from others on ls1tech here that were building performance 6 speed units before I was.) A pilot bearing/bushing however..... IMO those should be barely tight or even a fair bit loose. Disclaimer: I am just a shadetree guy. I am not a professional trans builder or any professional even remotely associated with automobiles in any way. My day job is one where I shuffle papers around, and I'm glad to have it. When the sun goes down, I can usually be found in my own shop/garage or someone elses, just wrenchin', trying to help, learn, grow, and most importantly, have a good time. I've been at this for a little while now... But I'm fortunate enough to be able to surround myself with talented people (both in person and on ls1tech).... And we don't always agree..... And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Another thought.... And this is coming from the school of thought that I subscribe to which prefers pilot bushings (and simple junk in general).... maybe that is a strength that bushings have.... IF the pilot bearing does actually fit tighter as in with .000" clearance..... Maybe that is what causes them to go out SOMETIMES and also grenade input shafts, clutch discs etc...... This is the whole reason why we run U joints...... And without opening yet another can of worms, misalignments in U joints are not only acceptable, but actually preferred....... Granted if you ask 10 different people about driveshaft theory, working angles etc.... You will get 10 different answers..... HOWEVER.... They should all be fairly close in terms of what they specify or agree on....... Just goes to show.... There's more than one way to skin a cat???? I KNOW that pilot bearings can work as good as a bushing.... But the additional complexity is not a benefit IMO... Because, when the bearing craps out, it can and very likely WILL take out an input shaft, clutch disc etc....... If the bushing craps out? Well.... You will probably only have to replace it.... Likely, you wouldn't even know the bushing needed to be replaced until you removed the trans for some other reason. But then again, I've tested pilot bushings by abusing them as I described a few posts up...... Any time you have the trans off you should be replacing the pilot bearing/bushing as AMP-D stated above....... Solid advice for sure.

Enigma540

Whether anyone agrees with you or not, ElQuefor (as you said "many ways to skin a cat"), I for one appreciate you taking the time and putting forth the effort to post long, well-written, and very informative posts. Many of us just don't have the time it takes to gain that sort of experience (myself included ), or even the weeks or months it takes to do the due diligence of research. My formula MIGHT get 200-300 miles per year put on her, and will likely never see 90,000 miles under my ownership so it might get ONE chance at the bushing/bearing decision and it's nice to know that I can log in and do my research here, knowing that I'll get intelligent informative information on both sides of the issue, that I can use to make my decisions (regarding any part or upgrade). So thanks again for the time.

ElQueFør

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate that! I try to help where I can. Lots of good folks here have helped me and so I want to return the favor by passing it on.