firedog02z28

iTrader: (1)

I always downshift when decelorating or stopping. Not only to have the engine help slow you down, but to be in the proper gear for your speed. I learned this when I started riding motorcycles. Any time you are decelorating, your are approaching an intersection, traffic, or other obstacles. Anything can happen in these areas. You can't predict what other drivers will do. I guess what I am saying is it is more of a safety issue, when I step on the gas I want it to respond quickly, not bog down because I am in too high of a gear. Hope this wasn't too comfusing, I hope y'all understand what I am trying to say.

Jason

Farmer2

iTrader: (168)

I also do the same thing. It only makes sense to be prepared for what ever to move quickly. Why do you think automatics downshift to accelerate.

You dont wear the clutch like most think you do by down shifting.
I drive a semi and you DO want to be in the right gear at all times and you do want to down shift on them also.

chpmnsws6

iTrader: (70)

rpm match and it won't hurt the clutch any

edwardswb

iTrader: (6)

I do it when the situation calls for it. Quick stops, autoX, intersections...whatever you need more control for.

hammerhead

iTrader: (1)

I down shift like a MF. Mostly just for fun & to hear the exhaust. Most of the time I try to RPM match somewhat to lessen the strain.
I drive pretty hard and my stock clutch lasted over 60K.

CamaroTrish

i downshift sometimes...but i do rev match. most of the time tho i just slip it in neutral and use the brakes. just isnt called for most of the time to downshift..

WestSide

iTrader: (6)

tap the gas a little when you're downshifting. you'll "learn" where the rpms are in almost every gear...I do it unconsciously now. easier on everything

RussStang

Just use the brakes in everyday driving. That is what they are there for. Downshifting is just for racing around a circuit, showing off, and racing around corners really aggressively on the street (which I have found cops don't like very much). Automatics engine brake too guys, its not like something you must take advantage of simply because you drive stick.

As for manuals being the preferred choice for road racing, I would suspect that if automatic style trasmissions were allowed in circuit and rally races, you would see participants enter the events with them. As it is now, every rule I have ever seen for any kind of road race has prohibited the use of automatics. With todays computer controls, I could easily see a TCM being setup for an extremely aggressive open road course setup, and then be supplemented by a manual style valve body install, for more control.

FUN LS1

Yup, just goose the throttle to match revs so you don't wear the center of the clutch plate. I love the sound, and so do all the red blooded men within ear shot...

richieg

iTrader: (1)

I voted for all the time. I have a baer 6 piston brake setup, so I'm not worried about my brakes wearing out. I just enjoy driving my car that way. As far as the clutch wear goes, I'll pass on theories and deal with what my eyes tell me. I recently did a clutch swap at 50k miles due to hydraulics failure. My pressure plate & flywheel were hotspotted from the slipping when the hydraulics were going out. The clutch disc itself easily had another 50k miles on it. So I'm not worried about downshifting hurting my clutch. I don't know if it has any effect on the axle, but I have a currie 9, so I'm not worried about that either. My m6 still shifts as good as the day I bought the car, so I'm assuming that's okay as well. And the engine runs as good as it has ever had. So taking my experience, I say it doesn't hurt anything.

Redneck Z

iTrader: (3)

I'm with firedogO2Z28. I learned to ride a motorcycle when I was 4, and I think learning how to use a clutch early on has really helped me with cars. I don't ALWAYS downshift when comming to a stop, but do it quit a bit. I don't double clutch, but do rev match. Many times my clutches have lasted the life of the car, or over 100k. I think if you use the clutch properly, you can drive fast, beat on your car pretty good, downshift when comming to a stop, etc. and still get lots of life out of your clutch. Part of the reason I like V8's is for the way they sound, and it just sounds so good to down shift on decelleration!

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

Well, I have an MGB, live in farm country with narrow winding roads, have driven in England, and do drive a heavily-loaded farm truck sometimes, so I'm not entirely unfamiliar with or unsympathetic to your point of view.

"In the old days", a big part of winning a race was taking care of the brakes. As you noted, engine braking still an essential skill to preserve the overworked brakes on a loaded truck, and a valuable skill to have on hand in case you need it.

However, engine braking is obsolete as a racing technique. It's way too slow. If your brakes aren't up to the task, you need better brakes. It takes a lot longer to slow the car down with engine braking, and half of that is time you could have still been on the throttle.

I'm not trying to downplay the importance of shifting technique going into a turn. You still need to accomplish rapid braking, possibly some trail braking, and smooth selection of the proper gear without upsetting the chassis, and all in a very short time. That's a skill that only comes with constant practice.

I routinely practice my double-declutching and heel-toe in my daily driving in the Camaro, and on a relaxed country road cruise I will do some light engine braking for the enjoyment of it. I don't race the MGB, and it has milder brakes to begin with, so I often do some engine braking while driving it.

Double-declutching is arguably obsolete for racing too, though if the transmission is at all balky I find it faster to double-declutch than to wait on the synchros. Still, if it's really necessary then the transmission needs service.

I enjoy being able to drive without using the brakes, but it's for recreation and honing skills, not winning. Endurance racing may be an exception.

Don't get me wrong; you still have to take care of the car. I'm convinced that is a big part of Shumacher's success. He just ticks off relaxed laps, burning off fuel weight and preserving the brakes and tires while his competitors use up themselves and their cars dueling. Then he kicks it up a notch for some blazing fast laps before pitting and at the end of the race when everyone else is slowing down.

Also, smooth downshifting is an essential skill whether you are doing it for the engine braking or not.

multiplicityZ

iTrader: (7)

I will downshift every once in a while, but i dont make it a habit. I'm not worried about my clutch "wearing out", simply because i rev-match everytime i downshift, but i am more worried about the load it puts on the engine.

I'm just wondering why you would want to put an extra load on the engine when you dont need to. It just seems unnecessary to me, o well.

Vettish

"The best drivers can downshift as well as they upshift" - as the wise man once said. If your car is out of gear and/or your at low rpms the car will not be able to accelerate in a resonable manner. If you go to racing school they stress this technique in conjuction with having complete control of the car at all times.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

All he was asking about was when coming to a stop at a light. Not autocrossing, not racing, or any other high performance driving situation. I just don't see the need to stress anything more than I have to just putting through traffic.

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

Fair point.

At one time, when brakes weren't nearly as good, engine braking made sense even for mundane driving. It still does for something like a heavily loaded truck, or possibly when slowly approaching a stop light that is already red.

Considering how good the stock brakes are, and how much better they can be with just a pad and fluid change, and how much it cost to service the trans or clutch even DIY, I give a lot more weight to the "brakes are cheaper than clutches" argument than I used to

Charging TA

Well as Ive said before, almost every European on here will say they downshift in regular traffic... Hell I was thinking about it today, was driving a car other than my own, on which the brakes arent that effective, am I gonna sit there and cry like the guy who lost control of his BMW doing 130 ? Nope, I downshifted to slow the car until the brakes become effective enough.

Yes someone can say "oh that shouldnt even be driven on the street like that", but owell... my reply to those is come over here and see what kind of inspection process we have, 1/4-1/3 of the cars on this site would not pass... My TA got lifted, inspected underneith, poked with a stick to make sure there was no rust on a structural components, got put on a machine that shakes the car to check for suspension problems (shakes each wheel individually, pretty neat machine), got the sniffer, after that the inspector takes it on a course to test the brakes and handeling, etc... the lights are inspected that they are the proper power (not too bright nor too dim) and that they are pointing in the correct position. Cant remember what else. And this is done every year.

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

Well, as I said, I still think it's an essential skill, and I'm old enough to have driven many cars with far less braking capability than an f-body. Even many modern cars are underbraked, and I've taught many people how to use engine braking over the years.

We should probably also draw a distiction between engine braking for stoplights, and engine braking for hills

freakynipples69

iTrader: (3)

Charging TA

No offense, but to all you guys complaining about changing the clutch... Do you guys let your car sit in the garage all year because you worry about putting wear on your clutch? Not like its going to just vanish...

Others say it puts wear on your entire drivetrain... well, Id say most everyone downshifts to slow down in Europe and yet used cars are in better condition (thanks to yearly inspections as stated above) and have higher kilometers on average than cars in the "states". I know from personal experience.