NastyWS6

iTrader: (7)

have they given any possible release time for it ? Or is it one of those things were we mayb not see it for a few more years.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

The 6 speed auto is already out and the manual should be soon to follow.

Really I could see that you could use the clutch instead of a torque converter and all of that would fit. The auto just applies bands to shift right? Surely there is a mechanical linkage to do that.

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

I think the idea is that synchros take the place of the bands in this setup.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

With the planetary gear set there is no need for synchros as all gears are always in mesh. Also grinding is impossible.

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

The gears in a traditional manual transmission are also always in mesh. And yet there is grinding.

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

Whoa! The gears in a manual trans are always in mesh and yet there is grinding. Firstly the statement is false and secondly those two thing don't have to be mutually inclusive as your statement implies. A gear is always in mesh(unless you're in neutral). It's the gear you've manually selected. The others freewheel. The gears(plural) can NOT always be in mesh as only one gear can be selected at a time and they don't grind. It's the job of the syncros to see to it that they don't grind. Just think about how long a manual transmission would last without syncros. It would eat itself up in little or no time whereas the auto trans with the suns and planets and rings is a TOTALLY different animal. It is so strong there is no comparison. It's like having a rear differential ring and pinion system, but with 3 pinions instead of 1. In a normal ring and pinion the ring gear is always trying to walk away from the pinion when the ring tries to force the much larger and heavier ring gear to turn. Instead of turing on it's axis the ring tries to walk away from the pinion that is trying to force the ring to turn. Now add two more pinions 120 degrees apart from each other. As soon as the ring starts to try and walk away the other two pinions say: Oh no, you're not going anywhere. The ring is forced to turn on its' axis which is what you want it to do. I like to fish and a few years ago I read about a new reel that used a planetary system which is unheard of. All fishing reels use the conventional ring and single pinion system. This was the first I had ever heard of using the planetary in a fishing reel. I bought it immediately knowing it would never fail while all my regular reels last a year or two before the pinion starts to slip and the theeth finally get eaten up. The reel is shot because the bushings are worn out by that time as well. You don't have this problem with a planetary. Planetary is the best. That's why Pro Stock and Alcohol Dragster and Alcohol Funny Cars use planetary.

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

The gears are always in mesh on a manual transmission. It is the synchros that grind, not the gears. I thought my post was clear enough but apparently you didn't understand it. I never implied gears being in mesh and grinding were mutually exclusive, my point was exactly the opposite.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

The gears' teeth are in mesh but the gears themselves are NOT. Thats the whole point. It doesn't matter if your system breaks and doesn't work, it doesn't work. The fact that the gears' teeth are still there is pointless. If you look at the problem from the standpoint of a simplified schematic the synchronizer sleeves count as part of the gears. The synchronizer sleeves transmit the power to the gears.

I would count a key in a crankshaft as part of the system because without it the balancer would just keep sliding around the crank with just a frictional fit! (I know an LS1 is just that but using an example)

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

When I said "gears are always in mesh" I wasn't including the synchro sliders. I think you are mixing up "gears are in mesh" with "gear is selected" but the wording is beside the point. You said that grinding is impossible with planetary gears. I say grinding is possible if they're using synchros instead of bands to lock the ring gear in place. Where there are synchros there can be grinding whether it's a planetary gear or not.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

But you would not use a synchro in a planetary gearset.

The fundamental design of a synchro doesn't even do what would need to be done in the planetary gearset to change gears. Let me explain...

In an automatic you produce ratios by holding or releasing members of the planetary gearset, right?

Nothing in there about synchros...

In the automatic, members are held by either a BAND or multiplate clutch (clutch pack)

Its not the same. Even if the transmission was controlled manually there is no need for a synchro. Instead of applying hydrallic pressure to apply the band you could use a spring loaded mechanical linkage to apply and hold the band.

To sum this up:
Replace all hydrallic actuators and servos with mechanical equalivents which can be applied and once applied held by a spring!

There would be plenty of room for such devices as the valvebody would be completely eliminated!

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

Now I see where the confusion is. The link at the top says "carbon fiber synchros" and "all mechanical linkages". A synchro could be used to transfer power to the appropriate planet/ring gears without the need for servos.

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

Your right when you say the gears are in mesh in a manual transmission even when they are NOT selected. That's true. The grinding comes in when the syncro doesn't match the speed of the gear you're selecting NEXT with the gear you're currently in. The auto planetary system is different in that it doesn't have to match speeds of gears from one to the next. They're more like ON/OFF or SELECTED/DESELECTED using actuators and clutches to hold the planets or rings fixed. So the auto trans doesn't use syncros like the manual.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

That is what I was trying to explain. Even if you took the modular setup and made a 'manual' from the 'automatic' you would not need synchros!

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

The are using synchros. You can try to explain all you want that they don't need them.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

That is an error. A technical writer comes up with the documents. Not an engineer.

It is not physically possible to put them in the planetary geatset. I don't care what the article says.

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

It may be an error, I wouldn't be surprised. In fact it would make more sense to me if it did use bands and clutch packs because they'd probably have to almost completely redesign it to incorporate synchros. But to say it's physically impossible to use synchros with a planetary gearset is closed minded. A clutch pack and a synchro are not that different in concept, you apply pressure and they use friction to get two peices of metal spinning the same speed and then lock them together. Same for the band too.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

I am not saying that you aren't right or there is only one way. I was just bending more that way because they keep ringing on the words: "modular" "most of the parts are the same" "shared architecture" ect...