It is a pretty cool idea though. I think in conjunction with my idea above it could work pretty well. Imagine having a slotted and drilled flywheel

 

You can not allow any moisture to get onto the surface of the disk or flywheel. Even hummidity will effect it.

 

That explains a lot. So we need the Goldberg idea in conjunction with the vents. Brakes dont mind water too much

Now we just need lots of money, time, and boredom.....

 

IMO, you were wise to switch majors.




That's a fairly good description of a lockup torque converter.

 

I have also wondered this... especially with these high dollar clutches like Tex and Ram. I understand they are built to handle high horsepower... but a clutch only slips when you tell it to until you have full engagement. Unlike brakes which have to slow down a 3500 lb car over a very long time. And then what about automatic transmissions? They have clutch packs in them, albeit there are more than one but each clutch inside does not have much surface area and those are lasting in very high horsepower cars and they slip as well.

 

Some awd guys add Tranmission coolers to there trannys for road racing etc...

 

GM has a kit for roadracing the vette..
its basically a pump, a cooler, lines/fittings that fit into the drain and fill holes..


its pretty pricey too.

 

Believe it or not, that is an old idea. It was used on Hudsons many years ago (early 1950's I think, maybe older) and was called a wet clutch. Its purpose was to give a softer, more gradual engagement. It was part of their early automatic transmission design which was basically a manual tranny with vacuum servos doing the gear shifting and clutch work. (In those days without high tech electronics, servo control which was affordable to the public had all the finesse of Herman Munster). I'm not sure how well it held up though, maybe someone else knows?

EDIT: Yes I am an old coot.

 

Well I supposed it's not to hard to assume that it didn't work out exactly as planned for as far as I know there's no modern transmission that uses such "technology." Very good design theory though. I like this thread. How exactly does a tranny cooler work for a Manual transmission? I knew they had tranny coolers for auto's but not manuals. Is it air cooled or something?

 

Another consideration - by my calculations, a 17 inch wheel is rotating at 800 RPM at 60 MPH, vs. a clutch rotating at between 1200 and 3000 RPM when you launch - the heat build up I would think is much faster and with little ventilation as stated above the window for heat damage becomes pretty short.

 

A slotted and drilled flywheel sounds kind of like a good idead, but then you have less surface area. You could also add cooling vanes perhaps?

 

A clutch is designed to not slip at all 99% of the time. A street car's clutch is made to grab and send the power down the drivetrain. Brakes are designed to slip and slow the wheels down by dissipating heat from friction.

Different purposes with similiar basic ideas. If a clutch was worked just like a brake then you would be spinning and losing power instead of transfering power. Pressure needs to be put down to lock it. If brakes lock then you are in trouble. That is why they are made different, last differering times and need more or less heat consideration from what I'd gather.

Kinda like brakes that are locked up would not be getting hot or being worn down, wouldn't be stopping your vehicle either tho...

I guess it is kind of a give or take thing.

 

That explains a lot, thanks. I really dont understand the auto tech stuff yet. Good to know.

 

But if the clutch is NOT slipping 99% of the time... why do they not last as long as a set of brake pads when you do "slip" the brake pads QUITE a bit more than a clutch. And the flywheel acts as a heat sink as well just like a brake rotor. So it still remains why do these clutches not last as long when they operate almost on the same principles as a brake pad and rotor?

 

umm, read post #32 again.

clutches are not ment to slip. they are ment to grab. when they slip, they wear.. and they're only 1/8" thick.

meanwhile your brakes are MADE to slip, not to grab. when they slip, they dont wear as quickly... and they are over a half inch thick.

material composition and amounts also come into play, its not just heat dissipation.




the only "principles" they both have in common is that they use friction to transfer force.. thats it... ohh and they both rotate. lol.

 

^^^ Ok, so why is clutch material only 1/8" thick? Why not put a thicker piece of friction on them? And i know that clutches are not meant to slip, and I know brakes are not meant to grab all the way. It just seems to me that a good performance clutch could be made to last pending all other problems are corrected, IE good master and slave cylinder, good pressure plate all that stuff.

 

because the MATERIAL is diffrent.. once you've slipped that clutch to the point where the material thickness comes into play, it doestn matter.. its going to burn up..


now, if you had a "brakepad like" material that was ment to slip, and adjusted it so it did slip just right, and made the material thicker....









....then you've just re-invented the slipper clutch. the same kind of drag race clutch alot of race cars use.





next, you'll want to put some clutch material and plates together and stack em.. ooh, better yet, lets have these stacks "lock" together with some pins as it goes down the track...... you know.. just like the big drag cars.

 

No need to be a smartass, I'm just asking questions. Anyone else care to chime in?

 

wasnt trying to be a smartass.. just pointing out that the logical progression of ideas have already been implemented, you just have to look it up.

like the guy describing the torque converter above... lol.

 

Good question. One of the major constraints in clutch design is the rotational inertia of the disc. The disc’s mass and radius need to be kept within limits so the transmission’s synchronizers can work properly and survive. I think that the answer to my original question is closely related to the issue of the disc's rotational inertia but I don't know if it is the biggest factor.