Stange problem
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 9
From: Tequesta, FL
Stange problem I have an 00 ss, did an ls7 swap, new everything, slave, master, disc, PP, pilot bearing. Put it back together, filled the trans up with Mobil 1 ATF. Car drove perfect for about 1500 miles. Now its hard to get into 1st and reverse, and each gear feels a little notchy from time to time. So I checked to see if the clutch is fully releasing and it is, and the clutch pedal feels perfect.
Also if im at a stop in neutral, and go to put it in first its hard to go in, and the car creeps forward an inch or less, then it goes into gear and can be shifted in and out of first with no effort. I did notice that when its hard to go into first if I let the clutch out a bit it will go right in. This is extremely weird as I've never heard of anything like this. Is is possible that the Synthetic ATF was not good for my high mileage t56 (145,000). Any insight would be appreciated.
Also if im at a stop in neutral, and go to put it in first its hard to go in, and the car creeps forward an inch or less, then it goes into gear and can be shifted in and out of first with no effort. I did notice that when its hard to go into first if I let the clutch out a bit it will go right in. This is extremely weird as I've never heard of anything like this. Is is possible that the Synthetic ATF was not good for my high mileage t56 (145,000). Any insight would be appreciated.
Last edited by Mart00SS; May 20, 2008 at 08:22 AM.
I know you said otherwise, but it really sounds like your clutch is dragging (not fully disengaging). Come to a dead stop, put it in first with the clutch pedal to the floor and rev it up to about 5500 RPM (keeping the clutch pedal to the floor). Does it start to creep forward or feel like it's dragging at all? I would bet that it does, in which case you have a disengagement issue. Let us know after you do the test.
Where did you buy the clutch from? I would give Byunspeed a call and ask for advice. They seem to be pretty helpful. Could be transmission issues, but damn, those are the exact symptoms of a clutch that's not disengaging all the way.
The thing is, there is a disconnet between the engine and the rear wheels when the clutch pedal is in (obviously, that's the point). So if the car is creeping forward every once in a while when you go to put it into first gear, it means that disconnect it not fully taking place and the clutch is partially engaged. There's really no other explanation. I would give the test a couple more shots again. I noticed when mine had the problem that it would pass the test when I first started driving it, but after a little while of driving or some hard runs, it wouldn't pass the test anymore. Try some hard driving and then quickly try it in a parking lot or something. Just trying to come up with some more possible explanations.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 9
From: Tequesta, FL
Its pretty inconsistent. Somtimes it will go into first just fine. Its not like the car leaps forward when its hard to go into first, its just barely moves unil it goes into gear, sometimes you can only feel it take up the little bit of slack in the drivetrain. Also I have noticed that if I let the clutch out part way when its hard to go into first, it goes right in.
Man, I'm telling you, those symptoms EXACTLY match the symptoms I had when my clutch wasn't fully disengaging. You've mentioned every issue I had and not one I didn't. Perhaps give Amber at Six Speeds Inc. a call and she or someone there can point you in the right direction. I would probably bet my car that it's the clutch not disengaging, even if it's only intermittently. (although I'm not actually betting my car on it! 
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TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,379
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creep is a hydraulic issue.
Have you changed your clutch fluid recently? Air in system? Boiled/old fluid? After a year of hard driving my clutch fluid was darkened significantly despite insulating the line. The slave is where the fluid gets cooked over time, not the line. The line is more of an instant boil whereas the heat from the back of the engine and the clutch heat will eventually degrade the fluid.
Have you changed your clutch fluid recently? Air in system? Boiled/old fluid? After a year of hard driving my clutch fluid was darkened significantly despite insulating the line. The slave is where the fluid gets cooked over time, not the line. The line is more of an instant boil whereas the heat from the back of the engine and the clutch heat will eventually degrade the fluid.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 9
From: Tequesta, FL
I wish it were as basic as that, but everything is clean and new, less than one month and about only 1500 miles. It doesnt creep when its in first, when I push against the resistance to going into first it takes up the slack in the driveline and maybe will move the car a half inch if that. Once it goes into first its fine, and I could pull it out (keeping foot on clutch) of first and go right back in no problem .
Perhaps a faulty slave or maybe master, although I'd lean towards the slave. Nevertheless, he's right. A good rebleeding with new fluid never hurt anything and it pretty much free. Just takes a little time.
Transmissions and clutches do no create torque, they transmit it. If you have ANYdrive when you expect it to not be there, you have identified a concern you need to address. What you have stated IS a poor disengagement problem.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 9
From: Tequesta, FL
I completely agree with you, and i'm very sure that my hydraulics are bled properly and are functioning properly,(i have a bit of experience with clutches) so in that case its a fault in the PP itself?? or the wrong slave, I ordered everything from scoggin.
I just had the same problem....except i put a Tex. mine wasn't creeping tho it just wouldn't shift. I couldn't speed shift, lead alone pwr shift. It was the damn mobil 1 fluid!!!! Put some redline tranny fluid and re-bleed the clutch. That fixed my problem now it's better than ever. It's worth a try...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 9
From: Tequesta, FL
Alright guys, thanks for the posts , But I've got some new info on it. I was parking at work, backing into a spot that is angled down to the road way. I let the car sloooowly roll forward and would try to shift into first and it would stop the cars roll, stop trying to push into first and it would again roll slowly. All this is being done with the clutch depressed. I noticed that with the car off and the clutch in or out it was noticably resistant to go into the gears. I re-bled the clutch, conventional and with migh-t vac. No change what so ever, think I'll change the fluid for now or just wait a few weeks until I pull it out to rebuild it.
Note to self, Mobil 1 ATF I guess doesnt mix well with high mileage t/56???
Note to self, Mobil 1 ATF I guess doesnt mix well with high mileage t/56???
Teching In
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
what alot of folks are forgetting is that when you push the clutch in and go to put it in first, the car will move alittle if your foot is off the break. You have to remember, when you push the clutch in the disk is still spining and when you put into first the syncro has to stop the disk/input shaft from spining. If you push the clutch in and wait a few seconds and allow the disk to slow down before you put into first, the car shouldnt move at all.
As the OP said earlier, once he gets it into 1st it will go in and out with out moving the car. This is because the disk/input shaft is now stopped after he puts into 1st the first time. All the syncros are doing is matching the clutch disk/input shaft speed to the next gear and since your sitting still when going into 1st the syncro has to stop the disk which make the car move alittle.
Now I've heard of Mobil 1 ATF making it harder to shift in some cases, you may want to try just regular old Dexron III ATF.
As the OP said earlier, once he gets it into 1st it will go in and out with out moving the car. This is because the disk/input shaft is now stopped after he puts into 1st the first time. All the syncros are doing is matching the clutch disk/input shaft speed to the next gear and since your sitting still when going into 1st the syncro has to stop the disk which make the car move alittle.
Now I've heard of Mobil 1 ATF making it harder to shift in some cases, you may want to try just regular old Dexron III ATF.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 9
From: Tequesta, FL
what alot of folks are forgetting is that when you push the clutch in and go to put it in first, the car will move alittle if your foot is off the break. You have to remember, when you push the clutch in the disk is still spining and when you put into first the syncro has to stop the disk/input shaft from spining. If you push the clutch in and wait a few seconds and allow the disk to slow down before you put into first, the car shouldnt move at all.
As the OP said earlier, once he gets it into 1st it will go in and out with out moving the car. This is because the disk/input shaft is now stopped after he puts into 1st the first time. All the syncros are doing is matching the clutch disk/input shaft speed to the next gear and since your sitting still when going into 1st the syncro has to stop the disk which make the car move alittle.
Now I've heard of Mobil 1 ATF making it harder to shift in some cases, you may want to try just regular old Dexron III ATF.
As the OP said earlier, once he gets it into 1st it will go in and out with out moving the car. This is because the disk/input shaft is now stopped after he puts into 1st the first time. All the syncros are doing is matching the clutch disk/input shaft speed to the next gear and since your sitting still when going into 1st the syncro has to stop the disk which make the car move alittle.
Now I've heard of Mobil 1 ATF making it harder to shift in some cases, you may want to try just regular old Dexron III ATF.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 2
Anytime creep comes into the equation, hydraulics and/or pressure plate disengagement issues are always a concern. Try this 10 times on a level surface. Make sure the surface is level and the car does not move with the brake off. Put it in first, rev to 5500 but do not release the clutch. For all 10 times the car should not move even a foot. If you find the car has moved significantly even once, you have a disengagement issue.
I used Mobil 1 ATF and Amsoil ATF before my rebuild with a Stage 1 Kit and during that rebuild, a T-56 expert noted when he inspected the internals that they were fine for the age and mileage (80k) and I was chastised for possibly driving like a grandma. The wear on my reverse syncro and gear was another story which explained my difficulty in getting in reverse.
I'm using Penzoil dexron VI right now and so far I'm liking how much smoother the transmission goes into gear than Mobil 1 or Amsoil so far.
I used Mobil 1 ATF and Amsoil ATF before my rebuild with a Stage 1 Kit and during that rebuild, a T-56 expert noted when he inspected the internals that they were fine for the age and mileage (80k) and I was chastised for possibly driving like a grandma. The wear on my reverse syncro and gear was another story which explained my difficulty in getting in reverse.
I'm using Penzoil dexron VI right now and so far I'm liking how much smoother the transmission goes into gear than Mobil 1 or Amsoil so far.