Clutch Disengagement issues.... Textrailia oz-700/Ram Adjustible Master
05-29-2008, 11:40 PM
#1
Clutch Disengagement issues.... Textrailia oz-700/Ram Adjustible Master Going through a quick list of whats done.
2002 T/A with mods
Trans still stock internally
Upgraded Hurst Shifter
New Throw out bearing
New GM Slave Cyl
New Ram Adjustible Clutch master (done today)
Textrailia OZ-700 Z-grip
Pennzoil Synchromesh (same as stock GM)
Last year my I was getting "dead" pedal after a hard run, my slave was fucked up and I couldnt bleed it.
So I do a new clutch/slave etc etc and for the most part is was fine.
I was though noticing with WOT runs in the upper rpms it would take longer to shift, like it wasnt quick anymore. I actually grinded 1 to 2 shift, uuugghhhh.
So my bud suggested the "clutch" test.
I got it on a dead flat surface, put it in 1st, disengage the clutch, rev and @ around 5k it pulls forward. Meaning the clutch is not fully disengaged.
So today we installed the Ram Adjustible clutch master, we adjusted it all the way out, to the point where I have to almost stand on the clutch to get the car started.
Now the clutch grabs low to the floor and pulls just after 4k rpms.
NEXT on the list, this saturday, we are going to re bleed it with a pressure bleeder.
We didnt bench bleed the new unit, we gravity bleed and did the standard 2 person bleed.
Its just VERY fustrating when I have a good clutch in there and I cant go racing for fear of busting the trans.
If anyone else has a idea or advice, feel free to chime in.
I think its air bound to a degree, even if the bubble is in the top half of the line and fluid riding on the bottom, there is an issue.
2002 T/A with mods
Trans still stock internally
Upgraded Hurst Shifter
New Throw out bearing
New GM Slave Cyl
New Ram Adjustible Clutch master (done today)
Textrailia OZ-700 Z-grip
Pennzoil Synchromesh (same as stock GM)
Last year my I was getting "dead" pedal after a hard run, my slave was fucked up and I couldnt bleed it.
So I do a new clutch/slave etc etc and for the most part is was fine.
I was though noticing with WOT runs in the upper rpms it would take longer to shift, like it wasnt quick anymore. I actually grinded 1 to 2 shift, uuugghhhh.
So my bud suggested the "clutch" test.
I got it on a dead flat surface, put it in 1st, disengage the clutch, rev and @ around 5k it pulls forward. Meaning the clutch is not fully disengaged.
So today we installed the Ram Adjustible clutch master, we adjusted it all the way out, to the point where I have to almost stand on the clutch to get the car started.
Now the clutch grabs low to the floor and pulls just after 4k rpms.
NEXT on the list, this saturday, we are going to re bleed it with a pressure bleeder.
We didnt bench bleed the new unit, we gravity bleed and did the standard 2 person bleed.
Its just VERY fustrating when I have a good clutch in there and I cant go racing for fear of busting the trans.
If anyone else has a idea or advice, feel free to chime in.
I think its air bound to a degree, even if the bubble is in the top half of the line and fluid riding on the bottom, there is an issue.
05-30-2008, 03:33 AM
#3
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I know of 3 poeple who are having trouble shifting at high rpm's with this clutch. One of them is me and im ******* tired of it. I bought a remote bleeder and i hope that i just have some air in the line but with 2 other people having the same problem i doubt that is the isssue.
05-31-2008, 02:50 PM
#5
**UPDATE**
We power bleed it, it was pretty good to begin with, but there is no air in it what so ever after we finished.
Pedal felt fine, like before The Ram is adjusted all the way out so it will have the best chance for engagement.
I did the clutch test, it still rolls forward.
But I went out for a few WOT runs, it feels better than before.
I will call Textrailia but what I think I am going to have to do is just put some miles on it and wear in the clutch, it shouldnt need it but its just something im going to have to deal with.
We power bleed it, it was pretty good to begin with, but there is no air in it what so ever after we finished.
Pedal felt fine, like before The Ram is adjusted all the way out so it will have the best chance for engagement.
I did the clutch test, it still rolls forward.
But I went out for a few WOT runs, it feels better than before.
I will call Textrailia but what I think I am going to have to do is just put some miles on it and wear in the clutch, it shouldnt need it but its just something im going to have to deal with.
05-31-2008, 03:21 PM
#6
Did you do the adjustable master as it came out of the box, or did you actually cut down the internal stop inside of the master? Also...I'm not clear on whether you lengthened the master cylinder rod or shortened it. I lengthened mine, and it made the clutch engage higher in the pedal travel.
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05-31-2008, 05:25 PM
#9
Did you do the adjustable master as it came out of the box, or did you actually cut down the internal stop inside of the master? Also...I'm not clear on whether you lengthened the master cylinder rod or shortened it. I lengthened mine, and it made the clutch engage higher in the pedal travel.
We lengthened the master cylinder rod, the clutch pedal sits Far forward of the brake and accelerator.
As for the engagement its not super high but no longer off the floor. The power bleed and having the proper level of fluid in the resivor fixed that. Its about half way up it engages.
05-31-2008, 07:56 PM
#12
The only problem I see is that you aren't moving enough fluid volume because either:
A. You need more pedal travel (as in shave the internal bump stop down - but this is only an issue if your pedal is feels like it is stopping before the firewall)
B. You need to shim the slave so that the existing pedal travel will extend the slave cylinder far enough (but you have to be careful that it isn't shimmed too much, or the clutch will never fully engage)
A. You need more pedal travel (as in shave the internal bump stop down - but this is only an issue if your pedal is feels like it is stopping before the firewall)
B. You need to shim the slave so that the existing pedal travel will extend the slave cylinder far enough (but you have to be careful that it isn't shimmed too much, or the clutch will never fully engage)
05-31-2008, 10:01 PM
#13
The only problem I see is that you aren't moving enough fluid volume because either:
A. You need more pedal travel (as in shave the internal bump stop down - but this is only an issue if your pedal is feels like it is stopping before the firewall)
B. You need to shim the slave so that the existing pedal travel will extend the slave cylinder far enough (but you have to be careful that it isn't shimmed too much, or the clutch will never fully engage)
A. You need more pedal travel (as in shave the internal bump stop down - but this is only an issue if your pedal is feels like it is stopping before the firewall)
B. You need to shim the slave so that the existing pedal travel will extend the slave cylinder far enough (but you have to be careful that it isn't shimmed too much, or the clutch will never fully engage)
I think I need a shim, I will be calling textrailia when they are open. I have access to a lift and it wont be an issue. As long as it fixes the issue, at this point, I dont care.
I feel like I have enough travel but anything can happen.
06-03-2008, 08:25 AM
#16
We're having the same issue with 2 cars, 3 counting Silverbeast above. I sent Textralia an email and here is there reply:
Hi Jonathan.
I've spoken with someone from Tick before when y'all were first opening up.
The issue with clutch drag is that as engine speed goes up the amount of
frictional force that goes with it goes up as well. So, a minor amount of
drag at 4000 rpm becomes worse at higher engine speed. If the car does have
drag at high rpm the easiest way to solve it is going to be to put an
adjustable master on the car.
We do not recommend a McLeod M/C as a rule for use with our unit. It can
cause overtravel if installed improperly, and damage to our clutch by
overextending the diaphragm spring on the clutch. It can also cause the
clutch to "stick" as the spring goes inverted.
But, if there is an issue in the vehicle for whatever reason with getting
full travel of the throwout bearing to the clutch then the McLeod is the way
we'd have to go to get it resolved. You can convert a stock master into an
adjustable master for a $1 worht of parts. Which makes it the same as a RAM
adjustable. But, I have had zero luck in getting an adjuatable stock master
to solve anyone's issues.
What I have typically seen is that we put in a McLeod master cylinder, and
set it up so the clutch still has just a little drag (like it is now). When
you get the clutch to release like stock, it only takes about half a turn of
adjustment to pick up the required travel to get full release. If we tend
to have any drag it is very minimal, so the amount of adjustment required is
very, very little. You don't want to much travel as that can cause other
issues.
Keep in mind this is if the clutch is bled properly and everything is working as it should at lower rpm levels. Once we get our hands on a Mcleod master hopefully we'll solve this problem. The guy from Tex I spoke with was very helpful...their customer service is head and shoulders above others.
FWIW, I have taken measurements at the slave and a shim isn't necessary to achieve the proper distance from the pp fingers to the bottomed throw out bearing.
Hi Jonathan.
I've spoken with someone from Tick before when y'all were first opening up.
The issue with clutch drag is that as engine speed goes up the amount of
frictional force that goes with it goes up as well. So, a minor amount of
drag at 4000 rpm becomes worse at higher engine speed. If the car does have
drag at high rpm the easiest way to solve it is going to be to put an
adjustable master on the car.
We do not recommend a McLeod M/C as a rule for use with our unit. It can
cause overtravel if installed improperly, and damage to our clutch by
overextending the diaphragm spring on the clutch. It can also cause the
clutch to "stick" as the spring goes inverted.
But, if there is an issue in the vehicle for whatever reason with getting
full travel of the throwout bearing to the clutch then the McLeod is the way
we'd have to go to get it resolved. You can convert a stock master into an
adjustable master for a $1 worht of parts. Which makes it the same as a RAM
adjustable. But, I have had zero luck in getting an adjuatable stock master
to solve anyone's issues.
What I have typically seen is that we put in a McLeod master cylinder, and
set it up so the clutch still has just a little drag (like it is now). When
you get the clutch to release like stock, it only takes about half a turn of
adjustment to pick up the required travel to get full release. If we tend
to have any drag it is very minimal, so the amount of adjustment required is
very, very little. You don't want to much travel as that can cause other
issues.
Keep in mind this is if the clutch is bled properly and everything is working as it should at lower rpm levels. Once we get our hands on a Mcleod master hopefully we'll solve this problem. The guy from Tex I spoke with was very helpful...their customer service is head and shoulders above others.
FWIW, I have taken measurements at the slave and a shim isn't necessary to achieve the proper distance from the pp fingers to the bottomed throw out bearing.
06-04-2008, 11:16 AM
#17
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How are you going to get a McLeod MC since they don't make the ones for a '98-'02 F-Body any more?
http://www.mcleodind.com/forum/showt...ghlight=139001
http://www.mcleodind.com/forum/showt...ghlight=139001
Last edited by 2001 Pewter WS6; 06-04-2008 at 11:22 AM.
06-04-2008, 02:09 PM
#18
How are you going to get a McLeod MC since they don't make the ones for a '98-'02 F-Body any more?
http://www.mcleodind.com/forum/showt...ghlight=139001
http://www.mcleodind.com/forum/showt...ghlight=139001
06-04-2008, 09:29 PM
#20
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I am having the same issue as well. I really hope McLeod comes out with a piece that actually works this time and doesn't need fixed before you use it.