I say home built.
Reasons
1. I build my own cars and always have. With the help of friends and parts stores.
2. The feeling you get when you meet your goal.
3. The knowledge of all the times trying different stuff.

Shop built.
I know a couple people who have shop built cars. The reason My friend has a shop built car is for the fact that he dont have the time, knowledge, or tools to do his own work, but he does do all his own tuning. The thing will make a shop built car cool is attitude of the owner. My buddy car has gone 11.1@124 N/A. He is just out having fun and loves racing at the track. He is as far from cocky as it gets. So I think it just depends on the owners also.

 

The only way you learn anything and actually gain technical skill is by doing it yourself. Home built all the way. I've never let a shop do anything on any car I've ever owned and never will. To this day I haven't met someone with a shop built car that had a clue about their car and wasn't the cockiest little bastard ever, but about 90% of the people with shop built cars are import kiddies with big mouths and horrendously slow pieces of ****. It sure is fun landing on them hard.

 

yup, you are right. my point was that when i was 16-17 i had little to no responsability and now that i am 20 and having to work 2 jobs to pay off my car, insurnace, rent, etc. etc. i dont have the time and its becuase i am getting older... i know it happens to everyone but if i had a choice i would love to go back to being that age and working on my own car instead of worrying if i will be able to make enough money to live on... i have the knowledge to work on my car ( ive been taking automotive classes since i was 15) but the time aspect is the issue...

 

I don't care whether folks did 0-100% of the work on their cars, and I'm interested in faster cars.

 

Bino Bango Bongo. An 8second car is a whole lot more than juice and a cam. There tons of suspension and every other aspect put into it. That gets my vote.

 

John, you only say that b/c you don't build your setups. I will bet you anything that if you did you wouldn't be speaking so flippantly, you just don't understand where we are coming from, where as its not hard for us to put ourselves in your shoes, that's all.

I firmly believe that until someone has gone through the crap it takes to build and maintain your own race/street car you really can't comment accuratly on this subject. just my opinion. like any discussion, you can't really be true to it without understanding both sides.

 

I should say that I think EVERYONE should wrench on their own **** at some point in time, just to able to diagnose and understand mechanical things. I've built several cars, so I have no shame having work done on my car. I know I could do it, and would if I had to, and thats good enough. I don't think a newbie should drop off a 14 second car that he doesn't understand how to rotate tires on and have a 10 second car built out of it. Its going to be problems anyway because he's not going to maintain it properly or understand what does what.

 

That was seriously one of the dumbest statements I've read. First off, if 90% of the shop cars built are imports how the **** do companies like Speed inc, FLP, Stenod, W2W, etc. stay so busy? Secondly, there are a ton of members here with shop built cars who are very capable and intelligent when it comes to cars and racing. I guess you just haven't met any of us. You should get out more. Lastly, "90%" of the "big mouthed" members with shop cars here would most likely land on YOUR ****. I can't recall the last shop car that only ran 12's. Most of them are very fast. I don't know you, but unless you have an 8 second ride, you might just wanna shut up.

 

Okay Sean, time for me to react to your comment. You are an idiot, and here's why.

You are what, 26? I am 39. I have swapped rearends, exhaust, wheels, fuel tanks/pumps, and helped drop shortblocks into cars ever since like 1991. I had a 68 Chevelle 300 that was inline 6 car that I bought for $500 in 1992, that me and my old buddy Alex swapped in a 1967 327ci with camel hump heads, and a Summit Edelbrock RPM upper half. Oh wait, we also swapped in a T350 and a 12 bolt from another car. Oh wait, I remember dropping the fuel tank in my 1970 Chevelle SS back 1993 to change the fuel pump. Oh wait, I remember swappng the rear springs and shocks on my old 68 Chevelle SS so I could jack up the back to fit big tires in 1992. Case in point, I bought 15x5/15x10's used up at Skips swap meet and they were beautiful. Too bad I never researched whether the rears would fit. the rims stuck out about .5 from the wheel well when I went to put on tires/rims in back. My guess is that they were from a Corvette. So I went to Forest City Auto Parts on Western by Belmont (since gone), and the parts guy and I figured out that 1972 Buick Electra 225 rear shocks and rims would probably raise up the rear of the car about an inch. It worked.

Oh wait, I put ladder bars on that 68 Chevelle SS... what a pita. Took forever. Alex and I finished around 3am. Went to work at 7am the next day.

Oh wait, I had a 89 lx hatch, and we put headers on that.

Oh wait, I had a 98 Camaro SS, we put headers on that. I did that with my buddy Herb who had a shop.

Now keep in mind, that many times I had buddies with engine hoists and full tools, where I did not. So if Alex had an engine hoist, I would naturally bring the car there, and we would bang out the swap together.

Oh wait I changed the alternator on my 64 GTO in college back in 1987 in the parking lot of my dorm. Did you know me back in 1994 when I had 5 cars? Did you hang out with me at Fluky's when I have one of my Chevelles, my 69 Z/28, or my 4 spd P-code 63 Galaxie?

A few weeks ago Magnus and I pulled the shortblock and trans out of his car. I didn't really post that because who cares.

Do you remember when some of the MFBA guys would go by Henry's house, or Hacker Joe's shop to work on cars back in 98-00? Am I supposed to keep track of whether I helped henry do his headers, or that Paulie, Hacker Joe and put the 9" in the Formula?

If you want to carry on about whether folks wrench or note, also keep in mind that I have made twice what you posted a few weeks ago ever since about 1993 so when I trade off having to work versus wrenching all nite, or not working regular like some folks, I make the trade-off to work.

So I really don't car if the owner of a car did 5% of the work or 100%. If I was retired I would do all the work myself, and I would take much longer since I would not be in a hurry. For me it comes down to time, and also comes down to abilities. Speed Inc. welds, I do not. My friend John offered to teach me how to weld, so I am going to take him up on that. When I have time.

 

Hah! That's the best response so far. An 8 second car will get my interest more than a 10-11 second car no matter who built it. Like John said, I don't care who built the car, just interested in the car.

The original question was.. "If there was a shop built car running 7-8’s sitting next to a home built car running a 10-11's, I would be more impressed with..." A 7 second car is more impressive than a 10 second car no matter who built it.

 

I'm impressed by whatever car is faster and wins the race. And I never ragged on Silvertoast when he was having fuel problems, like either the pickup is coming off or what, cuz hey he does the work himself so he does not mind dropping tank 3-4 times.

 

PSJ, you say Sean's 26 and your 39? How do you know what Sean will be making when he's 39? Kind of like comparing apples to oranges if you ask me. Also calling Sean an idiot, whom I thought was your friend seemed inappropriate and a little extreme to me. This is just a hobby don't take it so seriously.

 

Also why must people who have a shop work on their cars, have to post how they could be making twice the money doing something else rather than working on their cars? Ever hear of people doing it for the pure enjoyment or the challenge? Or an outlet to get away from life's normal "grind". That is why I do it, not because I am poor! That is like me saying that the owners of shop built cars are just lazy.

 

Um, Sean was the one that acted like I had no idea what the satisfaction is like from doing it yourself.... He never asked what I have done. And my point is that I was doing stuff fourteen years ago. My point about money was just to illustrate what it is I focus on, in lieu of working on my car. It works out that way for me, that I get in at 7:15am and stay to 5-6pm, and then go home and spend 2 hours with my son.

 

But in all of your examples above it is "us" and "we".Face it John you dont have the actual abilities to do the job. I will give you credit that you have garnered a ton of knowledge over the years that I have known you but that is not the same as doing it yourself. Everyone that has known you for a number of years is aware of that .Sorry John

 

Chris, did I ever tell you the difference between some folks? Some folks prefer building it to racing it. I like to drive it, don't care much about building it. You prefer building it. I'd drive your car right now, I bet it would drive real nice. The funny thing is, after all these years, my interest in stuff like welding is more or less academic. It would be nice to learn, but I have no strong desire to buy a rig and use it a lot. I have no desire to fabricate stuff. I just want to go fast. I'm very impressed with your fabrication skills and workmanship, that's why I asked you and Kurt to build the blower setup for me. It worked great and now I want to go even faster. It's been a few years, and now only one guy is down around where I am in terms of best blower ET and MPH, kp. All the power to him that he will run a faster time for a lot less money that I have, but in the end that's not a big deal to me.

In the end, this thread is some folks who are pushing the homebuilt cars should get more props even if they two seconds slower, and I'm saying I don't care NOW, yesterday, or tomorrow who built what, and I definitely don't care who built a 11 second car. I'm extremely impressed with 8 second cars, and fairly impressed with 10-11 second cars. Had the poll said what is more impressive, an 8 second shop-built car or an 8 second homebuilt car, I would say homebuilt all the way. It doesn't get any more impressive than Harlan building an 8.2 combo with his two other buddies.

The other fact of the matter is, that not everyone in this scene wrenches or fabricates for a living. And the 50% or more of the guys who do not, who do other things for a living might only do a little bit of wrenching but still want to go fast. In one respect it's like saying that they are 2nd class citizens because they can't do heads and cam themselves.

 

The original question was, what impresses me more.

A 7-8 second car to me is so much more impressive than a 10-11 second car, no matter who built it, stole it, **** it out of their ********.. lol

I like faster cars as well. I was so happy when we saw some actually fast cars on Pinks instead of the usual slow crap.

+1 for the faster cars.

 

i like *****.

 

If I can pass my NHRA Physical I will have my Comp license next year.My car is already certified and this winter I will be also. I already have plans made to attend Frank Hawleys' school this winter...........next

 

eh, i'm not going to take offense to John calling names. in the end, yes BigD he and I are friends, I just like to call him a *** sometimes, that's all.

John your points are valid, I will not take them away from you. But yes, I also noticed the we and us in everything you said.

Why? because there are TWO levels of learning to wrench, the first one is learning from others who show you things, and the next step in my opinion is then forging ahead on your own after you get that help. the second step is the hard one, in which the stress level goes up x's 20.

I will never take away from you the "technical knowledge" you have. You are a bright guy, and can discuss lots of things about building cars, and do it in largely accurate terms, but when it comes down to actually doing it, I will turn wrenches around you 6 ways from sunday, and we both know it, because I do it week in and week out, year round, building new setups and maintaining them.

I spent the first i would say 3 years constantly relying on my friends to come over and show me what the **** I was doing, because in high school when they were building cars, I was recording my first album and gigging alot, I didn't touch a wrench until I was like 19 or so. These last several years now I have 90% relied upon myself to get the job done, because I can, or if its something harder I haven't done, I have the experience under my belt that allows me to figure it out, even if it takes awhile at first.

That, my dear friend John, is where you stopped, and that is what why I am suggesting you might have a hard time seeing my side of the coin. When you have experienced folks helping with a job, it gets done on the first attempt and in a timely manner, i would know, i was there, and its decieving.

You may know what its like to work on your cars, but you don't know what its like to spend 5 times the hours it should to do something because your pride keeps you working at it, you don't know what its like to go to work on 3 hours of sleep monday through friday any given week so the car can be at the track that weekend, then it breaks something else and you do it AGAIN all over the next week.

You are well aware of all the bad luck and problems I have had this year with my car since my shakedown runs in April.

Would you have the dedication and work ethic to build an entire fuel system and blower setup in 3 weeks and then crack a 10.2 @135 first time out spinning to the 1/8th?
Would you have had the preservance(sp?) to pull the driveshaft, trans, coverter back out b/c your motor was given back to you with no rear oil galley plug in it? Then when you put it all back in, take your brand new heads back off and on the motor 4 times in 2 weeks trying to get them to quit burning coolant? Then drop your tank a few more times and re wire everything trying to get the fuel system bugs worked out? getting upset b/c all the above mentioned work was done a couple times already earlier in the year?

****, I spent half my day today getting creative with a cutoff wheel and an old set of stock fans so I could get the car to quit having water temp issues on the street. Would you have taken half your holiday today to wire relays and get those fans in there just to solve a relatively small problem? i did it just so i could beat on it more when i cruise it, that's all, b/c i don't have some ******* race only car, I DRIVE MY **** ALL OVER, and i do mean ALL OVER, which means more breaking stuff, more problems, and even more work on my behalf.

I do all this every week while working 10-12 hour days, being there for my family and girlfriend, and working on a new demo album as well.

If you want to focus on money, that's fine. I'm 26, not 39, and I'm allright with grossing 70-75K this year, something tells me at the rate I'm going I'll be right where you are sooner rather than later, but guess what, I'll STILL be building my own ****.

sincerly,
your "idiot" friend.