SFC LIST for the Army
03-25-2009, 12:07 AM
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We have an E-6 in our company out here thats never been deployed-I'm a little baffled by that one, I thought maybe he did recruiting for awhile or something? nope because he just put in that he wanted to go so i dont know. This is why i think fast tracking can be bad for some people-you get the rank but don't have the knowledge or experience to back it up an you end up getting alot thrown at you but dont know what to do.
03-25-2009, 01:16 AM
#64
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We have an E-6 in our company out here thats never been deployed-I'm a little baffled by that one, I thought maybe he did recruiting for awhile or something? nope because he just put in that he wanted to go so i dont know. This is why i think fast tracking can be bad for some people-you get the rank but don't have the knowledge or experience to back it up an you end up getting alot thrown at you but dont know what to do.
My thoughts exactely the over all experience level needs to be there, now for those like socmguy who are SF or Rangers or support their jobs are typically more demanding of self suffecient NCO's and they usually fast track but that is a small percentage. Im speakiing in generalization that for instance in my MOS as a Soldier with 8 yrs in the technical experience wont be there over those who obviously been in longer the job scope that we have takes years to get to. Im not mad at the guy who got picked up I congradulated him, what boggles me is the board selection process... I guess I wil never understand it
03-25-2009, 09:37 AM
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I think the Army's promotion system in general is flawed--especially since it is the same for all MOS's I just went thru the E-5 board about a month ago and some of the subjects i supposedly needed to know just boggle my mind, I understand as an NCO you need to know certain things in all CTT areas but what bugs me is that I will probably never use alot of those. It also bugs me that the Army seems to care more about basic army skills and nothing about your technical job skills when it comes to getting promoted. So I memorized a study guide and some paragraphs does that mean I know how to wrench an do my job an also train other soldiers how to do it? (I'm a mechanic btw 63B) I think it should be 50/50. 50% Basic CTT type stuff an 50% MOS related. Especially for the more technical MOS's where knowledge an skill is needed more than just another guy wearing stripes. Also why is that it seems like the e5 an e6 boards are the same type of questions? This really blows my mind, IMO i think the e6 boards if anything should be more mos related. My motor sergeant is an e6 an knows his way around a 50 cal but can't run a motor pool for ****. sorry for the rant but i needed to put that out there
03-25-2009, 11:39 AM
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I think the Army's promotion system in general is flawed--especially since it is the same for all MOS's I just went thru the E-5 board about a month ago and some of the subjects i supposedly needed to know just boggle my mind, I understand as an NCO you need to know certain things in all CTT areas but what bugs me is that I will probably never use alot of those. It also bugs me that the Army seems to care more about basic army skills and nothing about your technical job skills when it comes to getting promoted. So I memorized a study guide and some paragraphs does that mean I know how to wrench an do my job an also train other soldiers how to do it? (I'm a mechanic btw 63B) I think it should be 50/50. 50% Basic CTT type stuff an 50% MOS related. Especially for the more technical MOS's where knowledge an skill is needed more than just another guy wearing stripes. Also why is that it seems like the e5 an e6 boards are the same type of questions? This really blows my mind, IMO i think the e6 boards if anything should be more mos related. My motor sergeant is an e6 an knows his way around a 50 cal but can't run a motor pool for ****. sorry for the rant but i needed to put that out there
The board members are there to ask some questions that generally every Soldier should know.
The important part is the "recommending" of Soldiers for promotion. If you are a SSG and have a SPC who doesn't know his job well enough to become a SGT then your job is to train and get him there. You don't recommend him for promotion until he meets the standard and you will have counseling statements showing corrective training/etc... to provide your 1SG when you are going through the roster.
You will need the skills set of basic Soldiering. What about when your squad goes to a range to qualify or gets deployed and while you go recover a vehicle you guys are ambushed?
Not to mention future OPS NCO position you might fill as a E8.
I know what you mean about the board though...because some guys are good board Soldiers they pass off as being squared away but in reality they are jacked up when it comes to being proficient.
What I don't understand is why NCOs are sending them to the board in the first place?
Board members normally respect the fact that because a Soldier was recommended that his Squad Leader or PLT SGT recognized the Soldiers performance was in par w/ the next level up.
I have sat in several boards SOM/Promotion boards and most often the only time when a Soldier doesn't get recommended is when they are totally 8up.
We're looking for traits and attributes of a leader from the moment you step in the door.
Take a look at the MOI/POI for board members. If you dont have access to one ask your PLT SGT to explain them to you. It'll let you have a better understanding for our system.
03-25-2009, 01:19 PM
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"I've always thought of the board proceedings as a tradition or job interview.
The board members are there to ask some questions that generally every Soldier should know"
I agree but some questions are just pointless--ie current events questions about sports, i could give a **** less who won the f'n baseball game last night what does that have to do with being an NCO? How about something like, so how many kids does your squad leader have? whats his wife's name? How many people in the squad? I know not every board is like this but a majority of them are
"The important part is the "recommending" of Soldiers for promotion. If you are a SSG and have a SPC who doesn't know his job well enough to become a SGT then your job is to train and get him there. You don't recommend him for promotion until he meets the standard and you will have counseling statements showing corrective training/etc... to provide your 1SG when you are going through the roster"
In a perfect world yes, but I see it all the time, the NCO is lazy and doesnt wanna take the time to train the soldier so he recommends him for the board just to keep him from whining and complaining about it even tho he can't do the simplest of jobs or even run a squad for that matter. Have a guy right now thats promotable that couldn't even run scheduled maintenance. Believe me I totally agree with you but there is such a big loophole to that system, thats why i wish the army would come up with some kind of written test for some of the more technical MOS's. You may have been able to bullshit your squad leader/ plt sergeant but you can't bullshit a required test like that.
"You will need the skills set of basic Soldiering. What about when your squad goes to a range to qualify or gets deployed and while you go recover a vehicle you guys are ambushed?"
I am all about that trust me, but in that kind of situation what do you think is gonna be more useful to the mission? Standing there an shooting back or having the skills and knowledge to get that truck hooked up an gettting the hell outta there? Not saying I wouldn't shoot back but that wouldnt be my primary mission-let the gun trucks do thier job an i'll do mine.
"Not to mention future OPS NCO position you might fill as a E8."
Not sure what you mean by this statement but I would hope BNCOC an ANCOC would prepare me for something like that
"I know what you mean about the board though...because some guys are good board Soldiers they pass off as being squared away but in reality they are jacked up when it comes to being proficient."
exactly, IMO it just seems like im doing nothing but putting on a show for you, you may think im the most squared away individual you met because i studied a massive study guide for 5 hours a night for 5 months straight but like i said, does that mean i can do my job well and train someone else to do it? How do you know? Just because that NCO in the corner says I can? You don't know him either he could be just as ate up as that guy sitting in front of you. It takes more to being an NCO than just being able to read a book-you need to know how to apply it as well
"What I don't understand is why NCOs are sending them to the board in the first place?"
To get them out of thier hair, laziness, The fact that they don't want to keep doing the paperwork explaining to the 1SG why this soldier is not ready for the board-so i'll send him anyway an he'll eventually figure it out, just like I did-One of my squad leaders had to do his own recommendation counseling for the board-talk about some laziness.
"Board members normally respect the fact that because a Soldier was recommended that his Squad Leader or PLT SGT recognized the Soldiers performance was in par w/ the next level up"
I've already touched on this subject
"I have sat in several boards SOM/Promotion boards and most often the only time when a Soldier doesn't get recommended is when they are totally 8up.
We're looking for traits and attributes of a leader from the moment you step in the door"
I have no doubt about that, but I think it should be more than just me putting on a good show for you like I stated earlier
"Take a look at the MOI/POI for board members. If you dont have access to one ask your PLT SGT to explain them to you. It'll let you have a better understanding for our system"
I don't have a major problem with the board process, but I just think there should be more to it at least for some of the more technical MOS's because in my eyes too many dirtbags get promoted and set bad examples and don't know **** about thier own job. I seen an NCO recently try an wrench on a piece of equipment but was turning it the WRONG WAY! seriously? This is why I didnt fast track, I could've tried but in my eyes there is nothing more embarrassing than looking like a dumbass in front of your soldiers.
The board members are there to ask some questions that generally every Soldier should know"
I agree but some questions are just pointless--ie current events questions about sports, i could give a **** less who won the f'n baseball game last night what does that have to do with being an NCO? How about something like, so how many kids does your squad leader have? whats his wife's name? How many people in the squad? I know not every board is like this but a majority of them are
"The important part is the "recommending" of Soldiers for promotion. If you are a SSG and have a SPC who doesn't know his job well enough to become a SGT then your job is to train and get him there. You don't recommend him for promotion until he meets the standard and you will have counseling statements showing corrective training/etc... to provide your 1SG when you are going through the roster"
In a perfect world yes, but I see it all the time, the NCO is lazy and doesnt wanna take the time to train the soldier so he recommends him for the board just to keep him from whining and complaining about it even tho he can't do the simplest of jobs or even run a squad for that matter. Have a guy right now thats promotable that couldn't even run scheduled maintenance. Believe me I totally agree with you but there is such a big loophole to that system, thats why i wish the army would come up with some kind of written test for some of the more technical MOS's. You may have been able to bullshit your squad leader/ plt sergeant but you can't bullshit a required test like that.
"You will need the skills set of basic Soldiering. What about when your squad goes to a range to qualify or gets deployed and while you go recover a vehicle you guys are ambushed?"
I am all about that trust me, but in that kind of situation what do you think is gonna be more useful to the mission? Standing there an shooting back or having the skills and knowledge to get that truck hooked up an gettting the hell outta there? Not saying I wouldn't shoot back but that wouldnt be my primary mission-let the gun trucks do thier job an i'll do mine.
"Not to mention future OPS NCO position you might fill as a E8."
Not sure what you mean by this statement but I would hope BNCOC an ANCOC would prepare me for something like that
"I know what you mean about the board though...because some guys are good board Soldiers they pass off as being squared away but in reality they are jacked up when it comes to being proficient."
exactly, IMO it just seems like im doing nothing but putting on a show for you, you may think im the most squared away individual you met because i studied a massive study guide for 5 hours a night for 5 months straight but like i said, does that mean i can do my job well and train someone else to do it? How do you know? Just because that NCO in the corner says I can? You don't know him either he could be just as ate up as that guy sitting in front of you. It takes more to being an NCO than just being able to read a book-you need to know how to apply it as well
"What I don't understand is why NCOs are sending them to the board in the first place?"
To get them out of thier hair, laziness, The fact that they don't want to keep doing the paperwork explaining to the 1SG why this soldier is not ready for the board-so i'll send him anyway an he'll eventually figure it out, just like I did-One of my squad leaders had to do his own recommendation counseling for the board-talk about some laziness.
"Board members normally respect the fact that because a Soldier was recommended that his Squad Leader or PLT SGT recognized the Soldiers performance was in par w/ the next level up"
I've already touched on this subject
"I have sat in several boards SOM/Promotion boards and most often the only time when a Soldier doesn't get recommended is when they are totally 8up.
We're looking for traits and attributes of a leader from the moment you step in the door"
I have no doubt about that, but I think it should be more than just me putting on a good show for you like I stated earlier
"Take a look at the MOI/POI for board members. If you dont have access to one ask your PLT SGT to explain them to you. It'll let you have a better understanding for our system"
I don't have a major problem with the board process, but I just think there should be more to it at least for some of the more technical MOS's because in my eyes too many dirtbags get promoted and set bad examples and don't know **** about thier own job. I seen an NCO recently try an wrench on a piece of equipment but was turning it the WRONG WAY! seriously? This is why I didnt fast track, I could've tried but in my eyes there is nothing more embarrassing than looking like a dumbass in front of your soldiers.
Last edited by Daredevil_TA; 03-25-2009 at 01:41 PM.
03-25-2009, 06:09 PM
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Reply To Nick Nick,
I totally agree with you about sports questions etc... our NCO Support Channel did not ask those questions. I was lucky to be surrounded by good leadership all around and still am. Now we did ask current events especially the ones having to do with conflicts overseas i.e. the drug cartel war going on right now = does or could potentially involve the military.
Most of what you replied about NCOs not doing their jobs proves my point that the board is not the problem but instead its some bad NCOs and it's having a trickle effect army-wide.
Usually the boards ask the Squad leader about his Soldiers family and etc.. to see how involved he/she might be with their Soldiers. You are supposed to know your Soldiers, train them effectively to win our nations wars, know what motivates them, and help them take care of family.
The person taking you to the promotion board should be no stranger to the board members. It is often a team leader, Squad/Section Leader, or PLT SGT. Your 1SG should sit in the board along w/ the other Company 1SG's and the president is the CSM. NCOERs are reviewed by the NCO Support Channel and believe me they know if somebody **** stinks.
By your honesty and outrage over lazy NCOs its safe to assume you would not be one of those NCOs... so I hope you get promoted and start helping strengthen us noncommissioned officers (not stripe-wearers).
I know I can't change the army by myself (for the better) but little by little we will get there.
Do not refrain from getting promoted instead work extra hard to know your next level up. I always train my Soldiers to know my job. Soldiers who fast-track are self-driven, mature, and very competent (mostly all).
As far as BNCOC and ANCOC is concerned don't expect too much.
They are changing up these schools very soon to provide better leadership and adminstrative skills. Since we're mostly deployed all of the time there's been less emphasis on NCOs admin skills. It is very important especially when you start writing people's NCOERs.
Check out this AAR from the FY09 SFC Board. https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/Active...SFC/7AAR09.pdf
I wish you the best and please do not be discouraged by people just collecting a paycheck; get to a position in the army where you can make more and more of a difference in Soldiers' lives.
About that basic Soldiering skills. Im in a BCT BN right now and I am truly impressed w/ the training these kids are getting! Yes you have to know your MOS inside out (technically and tactically proficient). If you're dead you cannot recover the humvee right?
I'm a Medic and yeah if I didn't know my job most likely people would die when it could've been prevented. Medics are trained to shoot to kill.
If there is an enemy threat engaging us we're supposed to fight back until we've sustained it so I can move to the back and treat the injuries. Warriors Ethos!
Has your section SGT given you any guidance or provided you with any mentorship?
Mentorship is very important.
Repectfully,
SSG(P) Saraiva
I totally agree with you about sports questions etc... our NCO Support Channel did not ask those questions. I was lucky to be surrounded by good leadership all around and still am. Now we did ask current events especially the ones having to do with conflicts overseas i.e. the drug cartel war going on right now = does or could potentially involve the military.
Most of what you replied about NCOs not doing their jobs proves my point that the board is not the problem but instead its some bad NCOs and it's having a trickle effect army-wide.
Usually the boards ask the Squad leader about his Soldiers family and etc.. to see how involved he/she might be with their Soldiers. You are supposed to know your Soldiers, train them effectively to win our nations wars, know what motivates them, and help them take care of family.
The person taking you to the promotion board should be no stranger to the board members. It is often a team leader, Squad/Section Leader, or PLT SGT. Your 1SG should sit in the board along w/ the other Company 1SG's and the president is the CSM. NCOERs are reviewed by the NCO Support Channel and believe me they know if somebody **** stinks.
By your honesty and outrage over lazy NCOs its safe to assume you would not be one of those NCOs... so I hope you get promoted and start helping strengthen us noncommissioned officers (not stripe-wearers).
I know I can't change the army by myself (for the better) but little by little we will get there.
Do not refrain from getting promoted instead work extra hard to know your next level up. I always train my Soldiers to know my job. Soldiers who fast-track are self-driven, mature, and very competent (mostly all).
As far as BNCOC and ANCOC is concerned don't expect too much.
They are changing up these schools very soon to provide better leadership and adminstrative skills. Since we're mostly deployed all of the time there's been less emphasis on NCOs admin skills. It is very important especially when you start writing people's NCOERs.
Check out this AAR from the FY09 SFC Board. https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/Active...SFC/7AAR09.pdf
I wish you the best and please do not be discouraged by people just collecting a paycheck; get to a position in the army where you can make more and more of a difference in Soldiers' lives.
About that basic Soldiering skills. Im in a BCT BN right now and I am truly impressed w/ the training these kids are getting! Yes you have to know your MOS inside out (technically and tactically proficient). If you're dead you cannot recover the humvee right?
I'm a Medic and yeah if I didn't know my job most likely people would die when it could've been prevented. Medics are trained to shoot to kill.
If there is an enemy threat engaging us we're supposed to fight back until we've sustained it so I can move to the back and treat the injuries. Warriors Ethos!
Has your section SGT given you any guidance or provided you with any mentorship?
Mentorship is very important.
Repectfully,
SSG(P) Saraiva
03-26-2009, 12:49 AM
#69
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I really don't blame all of the Army for a few bad apples, I'm sure there are some in every branch. So I've taken alot of the time to "train myself" if you can believe that. A couple years ago I re-enlisted and had the opportunity to do a 6 month full-time school option. You can bet your *** I took full advantage of that. Ever since then I've become much better at my job and I only wish I could do more to get my degree.
Thats a tough question to answer, because I've had so many different squad leaders since I've been in this unit, I've had pretty close to 9 in a 4 year period, some of them I wanted to be like, most I was glad to see them go. I usually went to other NCO's for guidance-My motor sergeant here in Taji has been one of the best thus far but he eventually wants to go OCS. This got me thinking because IMO the NCO Corps is not as technically proficient as I'd like it to be so i'd like to try for warrant eventually. I feel like they are geared for more of the technical side of the Army which is what I want to be a part of. Thank you for this discussion Sarnt' an i hope your time as a drill sergeant goes well HOOAH!
Thats a tough question to answer, because I've had so many different squad leaders since I've been in this unit, I've had pretty close to 9 in a 4 year period, some of them I wanted to be like, most I was glad to see them go. I usually went to other NCO's for guidance-My motor sergeant here in Taji has been one of the best thus far but he eventually wants to go OCS. This got me thinking because IMO the NCO Corps is not as technically proficient as I'd like it to be so i'd like to try for warrant eventually. I feel like they are geared for more of the technical side of the Army which is what I want to be a part of. Thank you for this discussion Sarnt' an i hope your time as a drill sergeant goes well HOOAH!
04-06-2009, 08:24 AM
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I have been promoted a few times in the Army and I can't tell anyone how or what to do. In the old days(90's) you only had to do 6 things to get promoted:
1. Be a Drill Sergeant/Recruiter
2. Take the hard jobs (BCT, Division, 82nd, 1st Cav, 101st , you know what I mean)
3. Have a degree in something (underwater basket weiving)
4. Have all 1/1 and among the best with 3 Excellents on each NCOER
5. Have at least 1 MSM or higher
6. Have a few schools (MFT, Instructor, Airborne, Air Assault, EO, whatever)
Now I am not real sure what it takes to be SFC, MSG or SGM, I look at some of the dirtbags getting promoted and they are fat (or look it), out of shape (looking), scared to make a decision, hardly at work and when they are in everyones kool aid, not experienced in the ways of combat or being deployed. Really most, not all, seem like they have been babied and have not been tested or tried. Then I know many steely eyed killers who are the best think since sliced bread who are still SSG and you wonder WTF is the Army doing! I have really noticed a decline in the NCO corps in the last 7-9 years and think it is partly OIF/OEF and partly the zero default mentality popping up again. Many NCOs are afraid to make a mistake due to the fact that they will get burned hard if they do. I remenber a time when 50% of the senior NCOs in my Company had a DUI at one time in their carreer, now if you get one you are done. Not that a DUI is good, but it is a mistake like any other thing.
What is the fix? I do not know. I try to led everyday and influence those around me to fix their peice of the pie and not drink the kool aid of the dirtbags and POS sm that are slowly taking over. Not everyone is a 1/1 and not everyone is among the best, but if I am the only one doing that then am I hurting my NCOs? I think not.
Well enough of my .02, I think a fix for the promotion system is to get rid of the name, the picture and sex and promote off of pure performance......make everyone equal and let the chips fall where they may. Put the standard out and let everyone know if you are the best you will get promoted. It will make us all compete to be the try harder to be the best we can be. (Be all that you can be...lol!) If you are not the best then you don't get promoted!
Sounds easy huh? lol lol hahahaha if it only were.....
Have a good day!
1. Be a Drill Sergeant/Recruiter
2. Take the hard jobs (BCT, Division, 82nd, 1st Cav, 101st , you know what I mean)
3. Have a degree in something (underwater basket weiving)
4. Have all 1/1 and among the best with 3 Excellents on each NCOER
5. Have at least 1 MSM or higher
6. Have a few schools (MFT, Instructor, Airborne, Air Assault, EO, whatever)
Now I am not real sure what it takes to be SFC, MSG or SGM, I look at some of the dirtbags getting promoted and they are fat (or look it), out of shape (looking), scared to make a decision, hardly at work and when they are in everyones kool aid, not experienced in the ways of combat or being deployed. Really most, not all, seem like they have been babied and have not been tested or tried. Then I know many steely eyed killers who are the best think since sliced bread who are still SSG and you wonder WTF is the Army doing! I have really noticed a decline in the NCO corps in the last 7-9 years and think it is partly OIF/OEF and partly the zero default mentality popping up again. Many NCOs are afraid to make a mistake due to the fact that they will get burned hard if they do. I remenber a time when 50% of the senior NCOs in my Company had a DUI at one time in their carreer, now if you get one you are done. Not that a DUI is good, but it is a mistake like any other thing.
What is the fix? I do not know. I try to led everyday and influence those around me to fix their peice of the pie and not drink the kool aid of the dirtbags and POS sm that are slowly taking over. Not everyone is a 1/1 and not everyone is among the best, but if I am the only one doing that then am I hurting my NCOs? I think not.
Well enough of my .02, I think a fix for the promotion system is to get rid of the name, the picture and sex and promote off of pure performance......make everyone equal and let the chips fall where they may. Put the standard out and let everyone know if you are the best you will get promoted. It will make us all compete to be the try harder to be the best we can be. (Be all that you can be...lol!) If you are not the best then you don't get promoted!
Sounds easy huh? lol lol hahahaha if it only were.....
Have a good day!
04-16-2009, 11:43 AM
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I'm pretty sure it isn't as hard as it use to be-can't say i have experience but ive seen an E-6 that went AWOL, committed adultery, and miss movement-and he STILL made his e-7 pulled strings anyone? lol
