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07-24-2005, 06:59 PM
#41
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Christ beat the tax collectors in the temple with a cat of nine tails. God also instructed the Israelis to "utterly" destroy the "ites." Killing in battle is allowed in the Bible as is killing in self defense and capital punishment. I think God would have allowed this troop to cap that fart.
07-25-2005, 12:29 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by WECIV
Will, the reason that Japan was never a large enough threat was their size. The Japanese do not have the people. They did not possess the power projection--people wise--to engage the US and harm us on our own turf. Also the the United States military had considerably more teeth back in the day and people that were actually willing to use all the teeth. Today we are much weaker physically and non-corporeally.
07-25-2005, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by WECIV
I hate to disagree with you Stoleit. The Chinese military may not be as technologically sophisticated as the Americans, however; the Allies during WWII were rude and crude compared to the *****. Numbers won out. The Korean War was almost won by China with hungry peasants armed with tommy guns and the occasional mortar. In the air the MiG15 as **** poor technologically compared to our F86's, however when you have 50 F86's and they have 300 MiG's it created a situation where we almost lost. Not only do the Chinese have numerical superiority, that is getting stronger. They also have a mindset that Sun Tzu would have liked. The Eastern mind whether it be a Chechan rebel in Grozny or a Communist in China is extremely dangerous. The mind is the most important weapon and the bottom up command structure of the Chinese is vastly superior to ours in actually using it. We oft times expect troops to shut their brain housing unit down and simply follow orders. Our troop losses would be much lower if we used a bottom up structure and allowed our military to "flow like water." Instead of flowing we try to attack the toughest structure in a Clauswitzian mindset. Attacking weakness is the Eastern way to fight a war, whereas we attack strengths. I do not think the economic issues bare our what you are saying. The Chinese own our debt and they actually produce things in their country. They are a threat enough that Japan, Russia, and India are scared crapless. In Russia alone there are 3-5 million Chinese. The Chinese have said for the last 600 yrs they will get back their stolen lands from Russia. Lands that are full of gold and oil. And, the Chinese have the monies to exploit the natural resources. America is far enough away and the Chinese possess a crappy delivery capability for their nukes, that for the moment we allow ourselves to be fat, dumb, and happy. We should be investing in better tactics, technics, and procedures for our naval and air forces (and some equipment). The Chinese are doing just that and building forces that can assymetrically attack our carriers. We better realize that we are in a very dangerous position.
Will, the reason that Japan was never a large enough threat was their size. The Japanese do not have the people. They did not possess the power projection--people wise--to engage the US and harm us on our own turf. Also the the United States military had considerably more teeth back in the day and people that were actually willing to use all the teeth. Today we are much weaker physically and non-corporeally.
Will, the reason that Japan was never a large enough threat was their size. The Japanese do not have the people. They did not possess the power projection--people wise--to engage the US and harm us on our own turf. Also the the United States military had considerably more teeth back in the day and people that were actually willing to use all the teeth. Today we are much weaker physically and non-corporeally.
07-25-2005, 01:54 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by sidewayz28
can anyone find that video?? i want to see it now
07-25-2005, 10:02 AM
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"I'm not talking about WWII or anything even close. I'm talking about economics plain and simple. The Japanese economy looked something fierce about 30 years ago, then it fizzled out. What the Chinese economy is built on will fall even harder, do you have any idea how much debt they're in? I'll talk to my statistics guy and see what I can dig up for you."
I am not talking about WWII either. I am simply saying that the Japanese were not a threat militarily (in the 70's-80's). They lack the human resources to pull off another WWII. They abort more people than they produce and they have entirely too many old people to fight a real war. China is different. China does not owe anyone anything. Whereas they own our debt. They finance our debt. If they dumped all of our TBills our econ would be down the drain tomorrow. The Chinese Econ has been going since the 70's and there is not sign it is going anywhere, but up.
"I'd agree with you if the US was trying to invade main land China. But we aren't. The Chinese navy is a joke, as is their air force. And to address the argument of them having so many people, thats great, but they dont have the money nor the equipment to enlist them all into a formidable fighting force. Expect them to do what the Russian's did in WWII, one guy gets a gun the other gets a clip and go run at the enemy. The only people that have equipment/technology that can rival ours is the brits, and they don't sell stuff to China. The French on the other hand, bless their soul, sell everything short of their sister's virginity to them. But luckily the french lack a certain...how do you say...lack a decent military history..."
That is the same argument used about the Japanese before WWII. We thought we were superior to them, we were not. It took simple numbers to defeat the Japanese. If we had not had a limitless supply of munitions we would not have defeated the Japanese. They were vastly superior strategists. The Russians did a pretty good job if you ask me. They won WWII. .75 of all Germans were killed by Russians. Not bad for a bunch of ignorant farmers. Technology matters little, as long as you have the basics. The North Vietnamese technology was certainly not on par with ours, however they united the whole country, their objective.
The comment that the Chinese Navy and Air Force is a joke is a joke. The Chinese possess SU30's and 27's. The 27 outranges, out maneuvers our F15's and SU27's possesses Alamo missiles that outrange the slammer. As the Chinese economy keeps expanding the Chinese pilots will receive vast increases in their yearly hours, and they will become very proficient. Not only that but China is developing their own 4.5 generation fighters that will be as good as an F16. The Chinese Navy recently unveiled an Aegis class vessel complete with all the goodies US aegis uses (they simply stole the tech from us). The Chinese are also developing stealthy cruise missiles for their Navy. Combining the new missiles ships with SU27's (SU27 has an unrefueled range of 1000 miles). The Chinese can nullify our carriers if they use Chicanery, as an Eastern foe typically does.
The Chinese possess plenty of money to place into arms proctoring. The Chinese officially has the 3rd largest defense budget, however the US government has been viewing that number as of recently as vastly deflated. The Chinese are doing what the Meiji Japanese did in the 1890's. "Rich country strong arms." If you as a worker could make 100 bucks ten years ago and the economy improves to the point that you could make 150, you still make a hundred. The rest is skimmed off for arms procurment. Everyone thought the Japanese a joke until 1905 (even though the Russians would have won if the war had continued). Underestimating a foe is dangerous and our hubris will bite us in the *** if we are not careful.
If you do not think it can happen in the modern world simply take a look at what happened at Grozny to Russian armored/infantry units using massive ammounts of firepower and very Western tactics. We are vastly underestimating a threat that will surprise us a lot more than 9/11 ever did.
I am not talking about WWII either. I am simply saying that the Japanese were not a threat militarily (in the 70's-80's). They lack the human resources to pull off another WWII. They abort more people than they produce and they have entirely too many old people to fight a real war. China is different. China does not owe anyone anything. Whereas they own our debt. They finance our debt. If they dumped all of our TBills our econ would be down the drain tomorrow. The Chinese Econ has been going since the 70's and there is not sign it is going anywhere, but up.
"I'd agree with you if the US was trying to invade main land China. But we aren't. The Chinese navy is a joke, as is their air force. And to address the argument of them having so many people, thats great, but they dont have the money nor the equipment to enlist them all into a formidable fighting force. Expect them to do what the Russian's did in WWII, one guy gets a gun the other gets a clip and go run at the enemy. The only people that have equipment/technology that can rival ours is the brits, and they don't sell stuff to China. The French on the other hand, bless their soul, sell everything short of their sister's virginity to them. But luckily the french lack a certain...how do you say...lack a decent military history..."
That is the same argument used about the Japanese before WWII. We thought we were superior to them, we were not. It took simple numbers to defeat the Japanese. If we had not had a limitless supply of munitions we would not have defeated the Japanese. They were vastly superior strategists. The Russians did a pretty good job if you ask me. They won WWII. .75 of all Germans were killed by Russians. Not bad for a bunch of ignorant farmers. Technology matters little, as long as you have the basics. The North Vietnamese technology was certainly not on par with ours, however they united the whole country, their objective.
The comment that the Chinese Navy and Air Force is a joke is a joke. The Chinese possess SU30's and 27's. The 27 outranges, out maneuvers our F15's and SU27's possesses Alamo missiles that outrange the slammer. As the Chinese economy keeps expanding the Chinese pilots will receive vast increases in their yearly hours, and they will become very proficient. Not only that but China is developing their own 4.5 generation fighters that will be as good as an F16. The Chinese Navy recently unveiled an Aegis class vessel complete with all the goodies US aegis uses (they simply stole the tech from us). The Chinese are also developing stealthy cruise missiles for their Navy. Combining the new missiles ships with SU27's (SU27 has an unrefueled range of 1000 miles). The Chinese can nullify our carriers if they use Chicanery, as an Eastern foe typically does.
The Chinese possess plenty of money to place into arms proctoring. The Chinese officially has the 3rd largest defense budget, however the US government has been viewing that number as of recently as vastly deflated. The Chinese are doing what the Meiji Japanese did in the 1890's. "Rich country strong arms." If you as a worker could make 100 bucks ten years ago and the economy improves to the point that you could make 150, you still make a hundred. The rest is skimmed off for arms procurment. Everyone thought the Japanese a joke until 1905 (even though the Russians would have won if the war had continued). Underestimating a foe is dangerous and our hubris will bite us in the *** if we are not careful.
If you do not think it can happen in the modern world simply take a look at what happened at Grozny to Russian armored/infantry units using massive ammounts of firepower and very Western tactics. We are vastly underestimating a threat that will surprise us a lot more than 9/11 ever did.
07-25-2005, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 00TAProject
But one thing that this video does show, is that the body armor that we carry over here, (Soldiers and Civilians alike, I am here as a contractor) WORKS!!! Yes he is lucky and they should have let the soldier shoot that bitch ***.....
07-25-2005, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WECIV
That is the same argument used about the Japanese before WWII. We thought we were superior to them, we were not. It took simple numbers to defeat the Japanese. If we had not had a limitless supply of munitions we would not have defeated the Japanese. They were vastly superior strategists. The Russians did a pretty good job if you ask me. They won WWII. .75 of all Germans were killed by Russians. Not bad for a bunch of ignorant farmers. Technology matters little, as long as you have the basics. The North Vietnamese technology was certainly not on par with ours, however they united the whole country, their objective.
Originally Posted by WECIV
The comment that the Chinese Navy and Air Force is a joke is a joke. The Chinese possess SU30's and 27's. The 27 outranges, out maneuvers our F15's and SU27's possesses Alamo missiles that outrange the slammer. As the Chinese economy keeps expanding the Chinese pilots will receive vast increases in their yearly hours, and they will become very proficient. Not only that but China is developing their own 4.5 generation fighters that will be as good as an F16. The Chinese Navy recently unveiled an Aegis class vessel complete with all the goodies US aegis uses (they simply stole the tech from us). The Chinese are also developing stealthy cruise missiles for their Navy. Combining the new missiles ships with SU27's (SU27 has an unrefueled range of 1000 miles). The Chinese can nullify our carriers if they use Chicanery, as an Eastern foe typically does.
07-25-2005, 11:12 PM
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ok while i do not wish to engage in this argument i will say this... right now the US armed forces is moving away from the might is right motive and is moving towards the stealthy precision attack tactics. if we eliminate their major production facilities they cannot combat us, it will be our terms and our conditions. u all are focusing on something that can happen in 20 to 40 years, however the world is evolving at such a rate that a large scale war such as like WW2 will not happen again. war today is fought with hit and run tactics. its called unconventional warfare. the al quida fighters know this. so take out a far superior power u need to kill them morally. this is what they, the insurgents, are trying to do to us. the future of warfare is unconventional tactics. the world is far too devopled to allow a large scale conventional war. just my military experence and schooling 2 cents speaking here
07-26-2005, 12:07 AM
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dont worry guy your time is coming, and im sure it will be soon. my unit has a warning order and we leave for our mob. station in january. tour is an 18 month tour in afphganistan for up to 18 months. the army is stretched so thin that the active component cannot handle it anymore, most of the units going over are reserve and guard. including those that have already been deployed for 12 months in the past 2 years. and i am in that situation. but this is what i signed on for many years ago
