True paypal story.....
06-29-2009, 01:19 PM
#21
That is only true if it was a "credit card chargeback" which youll clearly know when you get the claim/dispute email from paypal. or if the buyer just filed a dispute/claim.
If he did it within 45 minutes of receiving the package, it wasnt a credit card chargeback. CC chargebacks cant be done that quickly. It normally takes a few days, because the credit card company has to notify paypal then they notify you.
So the buyer hasn't actually gotten any money back because it was a credit card dispute. Paypal won't "cover" the $1200 until the seller puts funds in the account. Ive dealt with this on stuff ive bought from a fraudulent seller and the seller just never put any funds in the account and im still "owed" the money by paypal but havent gotten it.
06-29-2009, 04:40 PM
#22
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That is only true if it was a "credit card chargeback" which youll clearly know when you get the claim/dispute email from paypal. or if the buyer just filed a dispute/claim.
If he did it within 45 minutes of receiving the package, it wasnt a credit card chargeback. CC chargebacks cant be done that quickly. It normally takes a few days, because the credit card company has to notify paypal then they notify you.
So the buyer hasn't actually gotten any money back because it was a credit card dispute. Paypal won't "cover" the $1200 until the seller puts funds in the account. Ive dealt with this on stuff ive bought from a fraudulent seller and the seller just never put any funds in the account and im still "owed" the money by paypal but havent gotten it.
If he did it within 45 minutes of receiving the package, it wasnt a credit card chargeback. CC chargebacks cant be done that quickly. It normally takes a few days, because the credit card company has to notify paypal then they notify you.
So the buyer hasn't actually gotten any money back because it was a credit card dispute. Paypal won't "cover" the $1200 until the seller puts funds in the account. Ive dealt with this on stuff ive bought from a fraudulent seller and the seller just never put any funds in the account and im still "owed" the money by paypal but havent gotten it.
Paypal has changed the way it operates over the years, two years ago I bought stuff using paypal , few times I chose the option of withdrawing money out of my checking account when placing the order but it would take 4 days or so for the funds to be cleared from my bank. HOWEVER, the seller used to get his money INSTANTLY , in MANY cases I used to get a shipping tracking info the 2nd day of the purchase, 3 days BEFORE paypal even got the money. It DOESN'T work this way nowadays.
Believe me, I dealt with paypal for many years and I can assure you one thing: There's NO CONCRETE RULE of how paypal refund policy works, a 9-5 person whos in charge of making these refund decisions is FLEXIBLE and from my personal experience, he/she can deny/approve a claim depending on his/her mood at that moment behind the computer disk.
For that I would like to tell you 100% info : Sometimes they hold the funds from being deposited back into the buyer's account until the seller deposits these funds, and YES SOMETIMES they issue a full refund , in this specific case I know that they gave him $1200 back and now they are going after me, how do I know that?! The ****** sent me an e.mail telling me that he got the money back and case is closed to him. So again guys, there's no concrete rule on how paypal issue/hold/deny a refund.
06-30-2009, 10:23 AM
#23
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Im tired of paypal. I wish someone would step up with a new company. kinda hard to deal with selling on ebay thought when they own paypal, they wont allow you to use a new website as a payment method, this way they get money from you twice. once on your sale, and a percentage of the transaction.
Similar thing happened to me. Sold a radio out of a 99 trans am to a guy. he gets it, files claim, says packing sucks, radio broke. Anywho, i issue refund, but the radio i got back was his broken POS (verified by GM and also by my ebay pictures and part numbers that were shows in photos). I was only out $100 so its not like your situation but paypal wouldnt help me becuase i issued a refund (by buyers request). Then i confronted the a$$hole and what does he do....leaves me negative feedback on ebay, and as a seller, i was unable to do the same to WARN people about this scumbag so he doesnt scam others. Its BS how ebay/paypal operates these days. guess all we can do is just bitch about them. Sad to say, anymore theses days, you have to jsut worry about your own *** and not give a **** about anyone else, becuase thats what there making this world out to be. Hope you get this resolved. the more pics, video, proof, etc you have, the better chance you have of getting this fixed.
Similar thing happened to me. Sold a radio out of a 99 trans am to a guy. he gets it, files claim, says packing sucks, radio broke. Anywho, i issue refund, but the radio i got back was his broken POS (verified by GM and also by my ebay pictures and part numbers that were shows in photos). I was only out $100 so its not like your situation but paypal wouldnt help me becuase i issued a refund (by buyers request). Then i confronted the a$$hole and what does he do....leaves me negative feedback on ebay, and as a seller, i was unable to do the same to WARN people about this scumbag so he doesnt scam others. Its BS how ebay/paypal operates these days. guess all we can do is just bitch about them. Sad to say, anymore theses days, you have to jsut worry about your own *** and not give a **** about anyone else, becuase thats what there making this world out to be. Hope you get this resolved. the more pics, video, proof, etc you have, the better chance you have of getting this fixed.
06-30-2009, 01:57 PM
#24
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Im tired of paypal. I wish someone would step up with a new company. kinda hard to deal with selling on ebay thought when they own paypal, they wont allow you to use a new website as a payment method, this way they get money from you twice. once on your sale, and a percentage of the transaction.
Similar thing happened to me. Sold a radio out of a 99 trans am to a guy. he gets it, files claim, says packing sucks, radio broke. Anywho, i issue refund, but the radio i got back was his broken POS (verified by GM and also by my ebay pictures and part numbers that were shows in photos). I was only out $100 so its not like your situation but paypal wouldnt help me becuase i issued a refund (by buyers request). Then i confronted the a$$hole and what does he do....leaves me negative feedback on ebay, and as a seller, i was unable to do the same to WARN people about this scumbag so he doesnt scam others. Its BS how ebay/paypal operates these days. guess all we can do is just bitch about them. Sad to say, anymore theses days, you have to jsut worry about your own *** and not give a **** about anyone else, becuase thats what there making this world out to be. Hope you get this resolved. the more pics, video, proof, etc you have, the better chance you have of getting this fixed.
Similar thing happened to me. Sold a radio out of a 99 trans am to a guy. he gets it, files claim, says packing sucks, radio broke. Anywho, i issue refund, but the radio i got back was his broken POS (verified by GM and also by my ebay pictures and part numbers that were shows in photos). I was only out $100 so its not like your situation but paypal wouldnt help me becuase i issued a refund (by buyers request). Then i confronted the a$$hole and what does he do....leaves me negative feedback on ebay, and as a seller, i was unable to do the same to WARN people about this scumbag so he doesnt scam others. Its BS how ebay/paypal operates these days. guess all we can do is just bitch about them. Sad to say, anymore theses days, you have to jsut worry about your own *** and not give a **** about anyone else, becuase thats what there making this world out to be. Hope you get this resolved. the more pics, video, proof, etc you have, the better chance you have of getting this fixed.
Looks like you know all about it, you saved me time providing more info to everyone here, you're absolutely right, and like I said Paypal isn't what it was before.
Nowadays by the way, if you list an auction on ebay and you mention that Money order is accepted, Ebay will IMMEDIATELY cancel your auction the moment they find out without even telling you to edit it, their only interest is to have EVERYONE use paypal for the reason that you mentioned above.
Like I said, I had my ebay account blocked now because they own Paypal, and I got the same exact thing you got, I'm unable to leave a negative feedback while getting one since I'm the seller.
The whole idea of posting this ad is to warn you guys out there, Paypal and Ebay isn't the same anymore, sellers prottection is not an option to either one of those two sites, think twice before using it to sell, because you NEVER know who's on the other side buying from you and what's he/she planning to do to screw you up.
Thanks Andrew for adding your story to support mine, sorry you got screwed just by trying to be nice and refund a guy who claimed something that never existed. Good luck.
Adam
07-01-2009, 04:00 PM
#26
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X2.
I think its funny now. a few years ago, when you sold on ebay, there were like 5 payment methods you could use when buying an item (money gram, paypal, cash, money order, paybuddy, etc). there were a bunch. Ever since the 2 companys merged, its been a joke. you cant even buy stuff on ebay through peoples online stores and pay them direct, all payments must go through paypal. i hate it.
So many people complain, but with the size of ebay/paypal, it would be quite suprising to see another company be able to overpower them. most small companies just cant compete.
I think its funny now. a few years ago, when you sold on ebay, there were like 5 payment methods you could use when buying an item (money gram, paypal, cash, money order, paybuddy, etc). there were a bunch. Ever since the 2 companys merged, its been a joke. you cant even buy stuff on ebay through peoples online stores and pay them direct, all payments must go through paypal. i hate it.
So many people complain, but with the size of ebay/paypal, it would be quite suprising to see another company be able to overpower them. most small companies just cant compete.
07-01-2009, 05:21 PM
#27
That sucks man I have had some bad stuff happen with paypal. I purchased a rollback on ebay paid the $1000 he wanted down. Me and my brother drove 12 hours to get it. We got there and the I found a bunch of problems that the seller forgot to put in the auction. To make a long story short I never did get my grand back because it was not covered under buyer protection.
07-04-2009, 06:49 AM
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Slightly off topic Gotta share this story,
In this case...I'm the BUYER. Bought a pair of Dodge Viper seats on Ebay. When they arrived.....no hardware was included to bolt the Seat Backs to the Seat Buttoms. His ad stated, "No Mounting Hardware." His photos displayed the seats as Together....not four sepparate pieces. At first, he denied any wrong doing and so the emails have begun. Below are 2, I sent him and one he responded to. Finding this hardware won't be easy.
You DO mention in your ad that there is NO mounting hardware included... but lets be honest here for a moment. To suggest that your ad implies that there is NO hardware means that there is no hardware to BOLT the seats together is a bit of a stretch...don't you think? I mean ,"Come On". That's BS and we both know it. How the hell did you end up with these seats and have NO hardware to secure the TOP SECTION to the BOTTOM? This is crazy!!!! You got a set of seats advertized for sale....They certainly LOOK bolted together in your photos but you say, " No mounting hardware." That statement to almost ANYONE implies that you don't have the bolts to secure them down in any given car. Not that they can't be put together / re-assembled. Do the right thing here and come up with the bolts needed to at least make the seats complete. I'm not asking too much. I paid a fair price and you should honor this sale as displayed.
Enough said.
Email I sent #2
I'm not trying to be a HARD *** about this but in all fairness. It's reasonable to expect that what you see is what you will recieve. The seats were together. If there is no hardware to bolt the seats together...then "Say So" in the ad. Not so hard.. is it?
Try and view this from my end. You shell out $650.00 of your hard earned money for something that can't be put together. Would you be HAPPY when it arrived?
NO, you'de be stuck in the same spot I'm in.
His reply,
You're right, and again I apologize for not being clear. I will find you a set of bolts and ship them to you as soon as humanly possible. I just have to figure out what size is needed. It's something I should have gotten to go with the seats before listing them. I'll shoot you a message as soon as I get them shipped with a tracking number
In this case...I'm the BUYER. Bought a pair of Dodge Viper seats on Ebay. When they arrived.....no hardware was included to bolt the Seat Backs to the Seat Buttoms. His ad stated, "No Mounting Hardware." His photos displayed the seats as Together....not four sepparate pieces. At first, he denied any wrong doing and so the emails have begun. Below are 2, I sent him and one he responded to. Finding this hardware won't be easy.
You DO mention in your ad that there is NO mounting hardware included... but lets be honest here for a moment. To suggest that your ad implies that there is NO hardware means that there is no hardware to BOLT the seats together is a bit of a stretch...don't you think? I mean ,"Come On". That's BS and we both know it. How the hell did you end up with these seats and have NO hardware to secure the TOP SECTION to the BOTTOM? This is crazy!!!! You got a set of seats advertized for sale....They certainly LOOK bolted together in your photos but you say, " No mounting hardware." That statement to almost ANYONE implies that you don't have the bolts to secure them down in any given car. Not that they can't be put together / re-assembled. Do the right thing here and come up with the bolts needed to at least make the seats complete. I'm not asking too much. I paid a fair price and you should honor this sale as displayed.
Enough said.
Email I sent #2
I'm not trying to be a HARD *** about this but in all fairness. It's reasonable to expect that what you see is what you will recieve. The seats were together. If there is no hardware to bolt the seats together...then "Say So" in the ad. Not so hard.. is it?
Try and view this from my end. You shell out $650.00 of your hard earned money for something that can't be put together. Would you be HAPPY when it arrived?
NO, you'de be stuck in the same spot I'm in.
His reply,
You're right, and again I apologize for not being clear. I will find you a set of bolts and ship them to you as soon as humanly possible. I just have to figure out what size is needed. It's something I should have gotten to go with the seats before listing them. I'll shoot you a message as soon as I get them shipped with a tracking number
07-04-2009, 10:42 AM
#30
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Since you have the serial number of the transmission you sent, I suggest you package copies of your documentation (including photos) together with a brief letter to the local police or district attorney. Report the transmission as stolen (it was). If he put it in his car, the police can inspect, and verify the number as yours. Legally, since he didn't pay for it, it's still yours. The dispute with Payputz is a different matter.
Having him spend $20k on a lawyer and spend 6 months in jail for grand theft is way more satisfying than you spending the time in jail for giving him a beat down. Plus, if they prosecute, you can go after Paypal in small claims court, and your case is a lock.
If he put the tranny in someone else's car, that's a different story, and it would take some detective work to track that one down.
I think the head doctors would consider me one highly retalitory individual. When dealing with dirtbags, I don't get mad. I don't get even. I like to get way ahead. I think you should get way ahead.
Having him spend $20k on a lawyer and spend 6 months in jail for grand theft is way more satisfying than you spending the time in jail for giving him a beat down. Plus, if they prosecute, you can go after Paypal in small claims court, and your case is a lock.
If he put the tranny in someone else's car, that's a different story, and it would take some detective work to track that one down.
I think the head doctors would consider me one highly retalitory individual. When dealing with dirtbags, I don't get mad. I don't get even. I like to get way ahead. I think you should get way ahead.
07-04-2009, 03:55 PM
#31
this exact same thing happened to me but with a xbox360 and the case was filed within 22 mins of signing I sold he claimed it wasn't working when he got it and sent it back to me serial numbers didn't match paypal forced me to refund it as you did they don't respond to emails I called 4 or 5 times bitching and every time I asked for a higher up and got a transfer eventually I got some one on the phone they said I had to file a police report for internet fraud and send them a copy I filed teh report faxed it to paypal and got the funds reveresed.
This was 2 years ago I don't know if things have changed but I would start off with some phone calls then filing a police report and sending a copy to paypal.
Also if you go to court you can sue for all court and lawyer fees plus travel on top of the 1200 so if it's a sure deal go for a good lawyer and first class.(grandmother won in a small claims court about 5 years back)
This was 2 years ago I don't know if things have changed but I would start off with some phone calls then filing a police report and sending a copy to paypal.
Also if you go to court you can sue for all court and lawyer fees plus travel on top of the 1200 so if it's a sure deal go for a good lawyer and first class.(grandmother won in a small claims court about 5 years back)
Last edited by saitin; 07-04-2009 at 04:09 PM.
07-04-2009, 06:01 PM
#32
I had a similar experience a couple of days ago.
A guy bought a turbo from me. After he got the turbo he sent me a bunch of messages about it having a lot of play in it and wanting his money back. We conversed over the Paypal dispute crap and after explaining that there was nothing wrong with his turbo and that I had pulled it off of a car and it worked perfectly and telling him that I would not refund his money for what I KNEW was a good turbo, he escalated the dispute to a claim.
At this point Paypal emailed me with a message that I will copy here
Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center
We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.
As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.
We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.
So from what I can tell, if you stick to your guns and communicate effectively you will be ok.
Or I just got Lucky.
The nice thing was just before he escalated to a claim he sent me a message that said and I quote "It could have been easy, suit yourself
"
I bet he felt like a jackass when Paypal sent him a message telling him he was F-ed.
A guy bought a turbo from me. After he got the turbo he sent me a bunch of messages about it having a lot of play in it and wanting his money back. We conversed over the Paypal dispute crap and after explaining that there was nothing wrong with his turbo and that I had pulled it off of a car and it worked perfectly and telling him that I would not refund his money for what I KNEW was a good turbo, he escalated the dispute to a claim.
At this point Paypal emailed me with a message that I will copy here
Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center
We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.
As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.
We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.
So from what I can tell, if you stick to your guns and communicate effectively you will be ok.
Or I just got Lucky.
The nice thing was just before he escalated to a claim he sent me a message that said and I quote "It could have been easy, suit yourself
"I bet he felt like a jackass when Paypal sent him a message telling him he was F-ed.
07-04-2009, 06:55 PM
#33
yeah he talked to you through the dispute center before making it a claim, in the OP case he filed a straight up claim no dispute no discussion basically saying the seller sent him a item different then the one he won.
07-06-2009, 11:15 PM
#34
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I didn`t read the entire thread, but I feel for you man. If I were you, I would contact a lawyer and end all conversations with paypal and the buyer. You can sue both paypal and the buyer. Hand it to them please!
07-09-2009, 11:44 AM
#36
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I had a similar experience a couple of days ago.
A guy bought a turbo from me. After he got the turbo he sent me a bunch of messages about it having a lot of play in it and wanting his money back. We conversed over the Paypal dispute crap and after explaining that there was nothing wrong with his turbo and that I had pulled it off of a car and it worked perfectly and telling him that I would not refund his money for what I KNEW was a good turbo, he escalated the dispute to a claim.
At this point Paypal emailed me with a message that I will copy here
Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center
We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.
As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.
We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.
So from what I can tell, if you stick to your guns and communicate effectively you will be ok.
Or I just got Lucky.
The nice thing was just before he escalated to a claim he sent me a message that said and I quote "It could have been easy, suit yourself"
I bet he felt like a jackass when Paypal sent him a message telling him he was F-ed.
A guy bought a turbo from me. After he got the turbo he sent me a bunch of messages about it having a lot of play in it and wanting his money back. We conversed over the Paypal dispute crap and after explaining that there was nothing wrong with his turbo and that I had pulled it off of a car and it worked perfectly and telling him that I would not refund his money for what I KNEW was a good turbo, he escalated the dispute to a claim.
At this point Paypal emailed me with a message that I will copy here
Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center
We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.
As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.
We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.
So from what I can tell, if you stick to your guns and communicate effectively you will be ok.
Or I just got Lucky.
The nice thing was just before he escalated to a claim he sent me a message that said and I quote "It could have been easy, suit yourself
"I bet he felt like a jackass when Paypal sent him a message telling him he was F-ed.
Holly ****, this only proves that ******* paypal CHANGE their policy every other ******* day, if that was the policy when my case happened, he would not even get the money back, and now (Few days ago as you said) paypal says : "PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the SHIPMENT of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received through an eBay transaction".....
WOW, I guess it's good for you brother, but if you go back to what I wrote few times in this post you'll see how paypal CHANGES every other ******* day. This is bullshit, **** PAYPAL.
Do you know what that means guys? It means that for you as BUYERS it's NOT GOOD AT ALL to use paypal to pay for stuff ANYMORE. Why? Because of their new policy now, they only back you up if you DIDN'T RECEIVE A SHIPMENT, but if you did, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE CONIDITION of the the item (If bought on ebay, and next week they'll add ls1tech to the list, the following week it will be k mart,wallmart,home depot, office max, and so on)
.....In other words BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE to BUYER PROTECTION, a seller could send you a fucked up item that he claimed as excellent, if the fucked up item is DILEVERED, party is over for you as a buyer. It's that ******* simple. It's amazing how I said they keep changing their rules and now a fellow member proves my point. Thanks for sharing your story with us man. I'm glad they didn't refund him from your account. On the other hand like I said, if a seller is an *******, a buyer could be fucked.
Using paypal is taking a chance, most secured payment method my ***.
My case is being taken care of by professionals now and I'm sure everything will be ok.
Last edited by powerhousecamaro; 07-09-2009 at 12:03 PM.
