entirely new cam/converter question.
03-23-2009, 12:45 PM
#1
entirely new cam/converter question. I'm not new to engines, just to the LS. The closest I've come to owning one was a '95 Z28 LT1.
Why, you senior members, are you seeming to say that it is perfect to start with a cam like Thunder Racing's 224/224-114 .563/.563?
Power to 7000 rpm is wonderful, no doubt, and with a good tune it should pass the tailpipe sniffer.
I've never tried a 3600+ stall converter either. Like any beginner might have back in the early '90s, I started with a B&M 2000 stall, loved it, and ordered a B&M 2400. Great for burnouts, otherwise intolerable.
I know perfectly well a 224/224-114 cam in an old 350 Chevy won't make power to 7000, or even much past 6000, depending on heads and intake.
Would the above cam drive nicely with a 2000 stall? Because i was thinking more like call COMP CAMS and order something like a 212/212-110, ground 2 degrees advanced. That's a 5000 rpm cam with a noticeable idle, but 25 mpg, in a 350, so it should be 6000 in an LS1.
My car is an '84 Trans Am, with a 5.3 bored to 5.7, SpeedPro flattop forged pistons, rebalanced crank, #241 heads, '00 Z28 SS intake and exhaust manifolds, used stock 4L60E, gearing pending-no axle in car right now. TIA
Why, you senior members, are you seeming to say that it is perfect to start with a cam like Thunder Racing's 224/224-114 .563/.563?
Power to 7000 rpm is wonderful, no doubt, and with a good tune it should pass the tailpipe sniffer.
I've never tried a 3600+ stall converter either. Like any beginner might have back in the early '90s, I started with a B&M 2000 stall, loved it, and ordered a B&M 2400. Great for burnouts, otherwise intolerable.
I know perfectly well a 224/224-114 cam in an old 350 Chevy won't make power to 7000, or even much past 6000, depending on heads and intake.
Would the above cam drive nicely with a 2000 stall? Because i was thinking more like call COMP CAMS and order something like a 212/212-110, ground 2 degrees advanced. That's a 5000 rpm cam with a noticeable idle, but 25 mpg, in a 350, so it should be 6000 in an LS1.
My car is an '84 Trans Am, with a 5.3 bored to 5.7, SpeedPro flattop forged pistons, rebalanced crank, #241 heads, '00 Z28 SS intake and exhaust manifolds, used stock 4L60E, gearing pending-no axle in car right now. TIA
03-23-2009, 05:34 PM
#3
Staging Lane
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Springhill, LA
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...cam-guide.html
Not sure if you have seen this or not but it will give you some good info on cams for LS engines I would personally go bigger as stated not really worth the swap on a LS engine you can really put some nasty cams in and be streetable.
Not sure if you have seen this or not but it will give you some good info on cams for LS engines I would personally go bigger as stated not really worth the swap on a LS engine you can really put some nasty cams in and be streetable.
03-23-2009, 07:59 PM
#5
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Illlinois
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All I can say without getting really technical is that LS1's are a different beast from LT1's the powerband is much higher and typically larger cams and stalls are realitively moderate in LS1's thats why a cam like a 224/224 is small and a 2000 stall is pointless. Do a little searching into what works for a DD or whatever your trying to achieve. A 224 or 228 cam and a 3600 stall is perfect for the street and it won't completely roast your tires like you think it will.
03-23-2009, 09:24 PM
#6
Thanks, Mook. If you ever get bored, please do get technical, because I am more than competent with advanced engine theory and advanced camshaft theory, and seldom get to talk to anyone else who is. Still, I don't believe in adjusting my driving style to suit my parts when I can change parts to suit my preferred driving style. I'm not afraid of roasting my tires, nor of needing better rod bolts, valve springs, retainers, intake manifold, TB, and/or pushrods.
I would like a TPI 383, but I now need the simplicity of the LSx.
Again, thanks for what you typed.
I would like a TPI 383, but I now need the simplicity of the LSx.
Again, thanks for what you typed.
03-24-2009, 12:55 AM
#7
TECH Regular
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Geneva, IL
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have a 2800 and a 222/222 563/563 on a 114 and 100% streetable in my opinion. also make good power down low. 325 ft. pounds at 3500 rpm at the wheels 375 ft pounds at 5500 rpm and 325 again at 6500.....i dont know if that helps at all but other then the cam its just got heads and bolt ons so.....any other questions pm me
Trending Topics
03-24-2009, 06:23 AM
#8
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Shillington PA
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, Mook. If you ever get bored, please do get technical, because I am more than competent with advanced engine theory and advanced camshaft theory, and seldom get to talk to anyone else who is. Still, I don't believe in adjusting my driving style to suit my parts when I can change parts to suit my preferred driving style. I'm not afraid of roasting my tires, nor of needing better rod bolts, valve springs, retainers, intake manifold, TB, and/or pushrods.
I would like a TPI 383, but I now need the simplicity of the LSx.
Again, thanks for what you typed.
I would like a TPI 383, but I now need the simplicity of the LSx.
Again, thanks for what you typed.
and you will most definitely want a 224 or better. Also a tight stall is only useful in something that makes power from 1500-4000 (big block), aside from that dont be afraid to get a loose stall. This isn't women were talking about here
03-24-2009, 11:46 AM
#9
Malibu boy, You may be in my league, and you surely know LS combos better than I, but until you've tried a tenth as many pre-LS combos as me, don't speak on what you don't know.
saying a 2000 stall needs a big block proves your ignorance. That LT1 is not 1% of the extent of what all I've tried. But in that LT1 I tried 1200, 2000, and 2400 stall converters, and 2400 in fact was too much. it turned 6200 rpm far better than either LS1 I rode in.
Why couldn't you just man up and admit you don't have any answers for me, or tell me about any small cams you did try in your LS1, besides a GM cam.
Any fool can parrot the crowd. If my proposed cam gains me 5 foot-pounds at 2500 rpm and costs me 25 horses at 6000 rpm, that's fine. Tighter LSAs build lower-midrange torque, yet the cam I propose will still idle better than the 224/224-114.
Just say you've never been there, you have no clue.
Not everyone is chasing elapsed times or dyno numbers. I'm chasing a certain not-measurable feel. If the LS is capable of it, I'll get there, But i'd be a fool to not ask for help.
I may have to get a 4"-stroke crank, though why noone offers a cast-steel one for well under $1000 is beyond me. There'll be one eventually. Until then, I'll play with the cam. I know from firsthand experience the difference a couple of deghrees can make. I've driven over 60 different cams. Have you?
saying a 2000 stall needs a big block proves your ignorance. That LT1 is not 1% of the extent of what all I've tried. But in that LT1 I tried 1200, 2000, and 2400 stall converters, and 2400 in fact was too much. it turned 6200 rpm far better than either LS1 I rode in.
Why couldn't you just man up and admit you don't have any answers for me, or tell me about any small cams you did try in your LS1, besides a GM cam.
Any fool can parrot the crowd. If my proposed cam gains me 5 foot-pounds at 2500 rpm and costs me 25 horses at 6000 rpm, that's fine. Tighter LSAs build lower-midrange torque, yet the cam I propose will still idle better than the 224/224-114.
Just say you've never been there, you have no clue.
Not everyone is chasing elapsed times or dyno numbers. I'm chasing a certain not-measurable feel. If the LS is capable of it, I'll get there, But i'd be a fool to not ask for help.
I may have to get a 4"-stroke crank, though why noone offers a cast-steel one for well under $1000 is beyond me. There'll be one eventually. Until then, I'll play with the cam. I know from firsthand experience the difference a couple of deghrees can make. I've driven over 60 different cams. Have you?
03-25-2009, 08:24 AM
#11
FWIW my old setup was an MTI B1 cam (222 @ .050) and a 3600 vig stall. Plenty of torque, but you could feel the power drop off in the upper rpm's, say 4500-5000+. The 3600 stall drove quite nice, and I had/have no issues with it. I couldn't see the reasoning for anything smaller, even a 3200 IMO leaves a little to be desired. With 3.23 gears and ported heads I could cut a 1.6 60ft and run the 1/4 in about 11.85 @ 114. If you'll look at that time and mph you can see I was still giving up some top end power that a larger cam (224-228) could have provided.
I don't see the logic behind a 2000 converter and 212 cam. Also, the LS1 has a completely different runner design than the LT1 and the heads flow quite differently, which may be why what didn't work so great in an LT1 works great in an LS1.
Also, I was told that due to the longer runners of the LS1 vs the LT1 the LS1 works better with cams in the 112-114 LSA range as opposed to the 110ish range.
For comparison, I also have an LT1 with a 224/230 cam...and it acts like a much larger cam than it would in an LS1...to me, anyway.
I don't see the logic behind a 2000 converter and 212 cam. Also, the LS1 has a completely different runner design than the LT1 and the heads flow quite differently, which may be why what didn't work so great in an LT1 works great in an LS1.
Also, I was told that due to the longer runners of the LS1 vs the LT1 the LS1 works better with cams in the 112-114 LSA range as opposed to the 110ish range.
For comparison, I also have an LT1 with a 224/230 cam...and it acts like a much larger cam than it would in an LS1...to me, anyway.
Last edited by FormulaZR; 03-25-2009 at 08:50 AM.
03-25-2009, 09:34 AM
#12
thanks Formula. Your last sentence is something I've wondered about, and it intrigues me.
Mook, what's an internet hero? Guys like Malibu, who have no real-world experience?
Anyway, I got the straight skinny (truth) from Patrick G, my thanks to him, so I no longer have to put up with a$$holes like Malibu. Bye!
Mook, what's an internet hero? Guys like Malibu, who have no real-world experience?
Anyway, I got the straight skinny (truth) from Patrick G, my thanks to him, so I no longer have to put up with a$$holes like Malibu. Bye!
03-25-2009, 10:04 AM
#13
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Illlinois
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=Isolde;11309132]
Mook, what's an internet hero? Guys like Malibu, who have no real-world experience? QUOTE]
Someone who acts tough and a know it all while on a web board because they know they will never see the other person be ready because there are alot of them out there so you just have to take what they say with a grain of salt
Mook, what's an internet hero? Guys like Malibu, who have no real-world experience? QUOTE]
Someone who acts tough and a know it all while on a web board because they know they will never see the other person be ready because there are alot of them out there so you just have to take what they say with a grain of salt
03-25-2009, 10:13 AM
#14
Launching!
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bartlesville, OK
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL @ wanting a 383 TPI, an LT1 turning much more power at 6k RPM than an LS1, a 2400 stall being too much, and many other things in this thread. Go big or go home
