1991ls13

iTrader: (1)

well i have made a few threads here and one was about a cam question but ive come to realize i still havent got exactly the info i need. i found a combo that is proven 500hp(535 to be exact) on a 1998 camaro motor. here`s the link..http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...2_engines.html

but here are a few of my questions for you that may be able to anwser.

also, one of the parts are a ported 5.3 liter truck head..... besides the raising the compression bonus, i dont see the + to this besides im guessing its cheap, why wouldnt i want to just get some ls6 stage 2 heads?

and finally, the cam. it says get a small comp cam. why not a med comp. i start loosing power around 5.5rpm-6 and wanting to get a cam that will keep the power till redline, as well as extend it to 7k, heres a cam i found but seems too big cause im wanting it as a dd and not to lope to rough.

thinking 236/240 .615 .609 or a tad smaller, 236/238 .602 .605, both 114 lsa...
ive heard an seen ms3 cams sound pretty good with little chop which is bigger then this. ill be using the ls6 stage two heads! any better cam set up for this head?


so basically my goal is to get as much power as possible with a head and cam combo but that is streetable without a crazy lope. i know, asking to make gold out of dirt here but i know ill have to Comprimse some for the Streetablility.

ps: i dont want to spend $70 on just asking thunder hill or a guy to tell me or suggest a set up. who wants to....haha

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

My advice is free and worth every penny

1991ls13

iTrader: (1)

(My advice is free and worth every penny)

haha and thanks

TooLateVTEC

iTrader: (2)

I dont think on that cam even the 112 would be very choppy, IMO. My 230/236 isnt that bad and its on a 112 LSA as well.

People use the 5.3 heads to raise compression for cheap. Getting a set of milled/ported 243's will put you way ahead in the HP game in my book. And with not even having .600 lift the piston to valve clearance should be fine.

About the only thing you can do to the LS6 intake is a company called TPIS can cut the snout off and weld on a 90mm TB snout and port it a little to be able to use the 90mm TB. Basically you'd have a poor mans FAST 90 and be able to lie to all your friends and say "its just a stock LS6, really" as long as they dont pick up on the different TB lol.

randy129

iTrader: (5)

Any idea what this service costs?

TooLateVTEC

iTrader: (2)

I have no clue man, google TPIS and their website should come up and have a # on there to call and get a price from them.

I remember seeing someone talk about getting it done a while back and basically it was around half the cost of a new FAST intake.

BlackScreaminMachine

iTrader: (17)

One word of advice, you cannot have your cake and eat it.

A 500+ RWHP combo will have driveability issues, the main question is how much an you tolerate.

In this set up a FAST intake is required.

teke184

iTrader: (5)

did anyone notice that first article he linked....the 535hp engine? figure drivetrain loss of 15% and you're at over 450rwhp.

with a 212/218 cam, ported 5.3s and a FAST.



i WISH it was that easy!!!

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

I just looked at the second cam and it was a 228/230. That's what I based my reply on..... Still not gonna make 535 fwhp though.....

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

It's hardly worth the trouble/cost of a cam swap for one that sized. As good as tuning is these days, I'd consider the minimum sized cam for an LS1 to be a TR224 type cam. That's a totally DD'able cam that will make great power on any set of heads.

1991ls13

iTrader: (1)

well ive been searching on these forums and looking at peoples set(sig) and its just going to take some time for me to find the set up i want i guess. cause i dont mind a little rumble but if it sounds like pop corn, i dont want it. its as simple as i want the heads and cam with the most hp gain but with it being able to ride daily. idk.....itsgoing to take a while..

blue00ZZleeper

iTrader: (5)

I agree that you should look into other setups lol. The 5.3 heads are pretty good. 243 heads are good as well. It all depends on your budget. Dont forget you need head gaskets, hardened pushrods, oil change, coolant and other added costs. A lot of people forget and dont add these costs into their budget.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

If you plan to build a complete custom exhaust, and true duals are in your budget, I'd always pick that over any sort of Y-pipe setup.

The X-pipe sounds good on these cars, and gives a more mellow/modern tone to the exhaust. True duals with no cross-over, or even an H-pipe, has more of an old school muscle sound. FWIW, I refuse to put an X-pipe on my Nova because I prefer the classic muscle car note for that car, but on my LS1s I'd do an X-pipe no question if I built a true dual system.

1991ls13

iTrader: (1)

ok, thanks for the advice for the exhaust, if im ableto do the x pipe on my s13.... then im for sure doin that, but if not im going y.

but back to the heads and cam, ive seen on sone peoples sig, they have pNp 241`s and (cam) but not saying what kind,and someother bolt ons like pullys and such making 500-600whp.

want the best high rpm range cam and heads on a mans budget with out saying hey look at me,i have a B/A power machine. basically, if there was a combo out there that met the needs as i said for a certain amount, but my budget is just a lil short of that, ill just save, but if its like twice the amount or even 1000 more, then i want to look for an alter....

sorry if i sound confusing, its late, im tired, and stress always when i think about cars hahaha

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Frankly, I don't see any way possible that someone is making ANYWHERE NEAR 600rwhp on a stock cube, heads/cam + boltons package, unless they consider a blower, turbo, or N2O to be a bolt-on. Even 500rwhp is overly optimistic, but probably doable with massive head work, more compression, and a wild cam (would also be damn hard to hit that number with a 12-bolt/9" rear, or IRS)

That statement contradicts your earlier statements:

First, understand the fact that the "loping" sound you're referring to is the product of low rpm inefficiency. Cams that sound wild like "pop corn" have a lot of overlap, which causes idle vacuum to be low, and engine operation to be sluggish and difficult to manage (and sometimes downright nasty) at low rpms.

Now, you've decided you don't want all those issues, hence you don't want a super lopy/wild cam. Good choice for a DD.

However, you've now stated that you want "the best high rpm range cam". Problem is, the best high rpm range cams are the ones that have a more radical idle. Reason being, that low rpm inefficiency (having intake and exhaust valves open longer at the same time) turns into much more high rpm power than milder, less lopy cams.

Now, don't get me wrong, even a "milder" cam like a TR224 will still make decent power to the mid-6k range, and have a bit of lope at idle (nothing unmanageable though). But the things you are asking for (no lope, stock like idle, but best power possibile at the highest rpms that the engine can spin) are contradictory to each other. In other words, you'll have to settle for something in the middle, and forget about hitting 500rwhp on a "middle ground" stock cube engine build, unless you want to include a power adder.

shiv15

iTrader: (7)

Hello OP,
The 228/230 cam you linked is very similar/near identical to vengeance racings vrx4 (228/230 .588/.592 112 LSA). I'm surprised no one picked up on that. there is a thread in the dyno results section with the cam and tfs 220 heads to show you what kind of power that cam size can make. If you look you will also find videos around here to show you how the idle sounds. The vrx4 has 5degrees of overlap. It will have some lope but not be crazy like big cams. Plus its only $350 from vengeance right now.

Since you mentioned wanting to spin to 7k you could probably get a slightly larger cam, in Vengeances case the VRX5. This is the cam i'm going to put in my car and drops off at 6800. But for comparison it has 11degrees of overlap and will be choppier sounding but more manageable than others. The vrx5 is on the small end of the "donkey" cams. For instance the ms3 has 15.5 degrees overlap on the 112lsa. This isn't the only factor that affects idle quality but is a decent indicator. The closer to 0 or -# you get the more stock like it will be. Granted there are a million other options out there and I recommend you do more research on the cam aspect of your setup.

As far as cylinder heads the 5.3 is popular because its cheap and the slight compression bump. I'd recommend you get 243/799 castings and have them cnc ported and milled by a reputable company. You will make more power than the 5.3s and get the compression bump from milling. Personally I am going with TEA's stg 2 heads with 799 castings. It's $1700, comes with .650 dual springs, and brand new 799 castings. Brian told me they have recently redesigned how they work over the heads and they make great power. Depending on your budget (which sounds modest given you don't want to buy a fast) the ls6 heads (from any company) will be your best bet. PRC stg 2.5 ls6 heads are a few hundred cheaper but I don't believe make as good of power. If you have more $ to spend you can open your search for AFR/TFS, etc. aftermarket casting heads. Although Brian at TEA told me the ls6 heads should flow the same, if not better, than TFS 220 heads.

You can find good deals on a fast 90/92 setup as has been mentioned earlier. Sell your ls6 intake and its pretty affordable. About a year ago I got everything for $700 after selling my ls6 intake. (Included tb)

I will stress that you look around and do your own research on what setup with will for your budget and goals in mind. If you need any more help feel free to pm me. I'm not an expert on the topic but I have done a lot of research on the topic and can point you in the right direction of sponsors who can really help you out.

TooLateVTEC

iTrader: (2)

I think you should be looking into a blower setup with a mild cam since your wanting pretty good power and hardly any lope from the cam.

They can be found used for a pretty good price and make good power even on a stock motor.

1991ls13

iTrader: (1)

all you guys are giving me great thoughts and knowlege. i thanks you alot for your trouble. i did think of a turbo before cause i found a coulpe set ups that arent to expensive like the mosti see for 3.5-5k. from what i have researched im looking at around 4-45 on the cam and heads for 800 to god knows what, but from looking at the heads prices im wanting to stay aorund the cheap 800-1500 at most.( i though about just porting etc, my heads.....that dumb?
and im looking to get about 500hp or so, doesnt need to be whp. aslo if i turbo it with a good cheap turbo,(one that would add mabe 100hp on very low boost.) what would i be looking at?Probably just stick with the cam though.

one last thing. i can def understand i have to compromise, thats what im trying to get at. here is the sound i love and want, and the second is what i dont want.

1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DacHo...eature=related
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QNOq...eature=related

2. and this is what im talking about the popcorn. i dont like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI4qU...eature=related

thanks again guys.

sorry, i forgot to post up my clip i have of mine. like i said, horrilbe, very restrictive and one stock cat after the Y if you want to call it that, its more like a lower case ( r ).

http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/m...urrent=246.flv

shiv15

iTrader: (7)

Well 500hp with drivetrain loss is right about 425rwp with an m6. That should be easily attainable with a medium cam and the prc stg1 ls6 heads or the 2.5. I would stay away from porting 241s (stock on 04 gtos correct?). You can make them flow more than unported 243s but are at a disadvantage later on where 243s can grow.

I know zilch about FI but I think you can meet your goals NA.

shiv15

iTrader: (7)

With a fast and good heads that cam will make roughly 535fwhp (450rwhp).


Edit: to op

I watched the vids. The 1st will be close to the vrx4, the 2nd prob like vrx5. I don't know specs on the g5x3 but I know its big and the last does sound gross. Its a combination of the big duration and his exhaust setup that makes it like that. For what you want stay around 230 or below