Car Insurance Question??
01-29-2004, 10:31 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by slik98z
try the "i hit a dog" routine. Insurance fraud smerence fraud...insurance companies JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY in the US get to the top because of one very important business skill. Being able to Lie and then cover it up. plus its still a consumers business...customer is always right. If i say i hit a dog, i hit a fuggin dog. they are still getting money, im getting my car back, most likely someone else is playign 3rd party and is getting money...everyone is happy. its the U.S. its all about the green and this green aint smokable.
If what you said is true, and "its all about the green" it is all the more reason not to pay a phony claim.
01-29-2004, 10:44 AM
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what exactly are you guys running over at the 1/4 mile? Deer? lol.
I can understand a blowout or someone else crashing into you, but that sure wouldn't look like a dog!?
I can understand a blowout or someone else crashing into you, but that sure wouldn't look like a dog!?
01-29-2004, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by samz28
what exactly are you guys running over at the 1/4 mile? Deer? lol.
I can understand a blowout or someone else crashing into you, but that sure wouldn't look like a dog!?
I can understand a blowout or someone else crashing into you, but that sure wouldn't look like a dog!?
01-29-2004, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Swifster
You know, I've never flamed anyone on a board in my life until now. The guy asks to know about the policy exclusions, and after this type of advise, this guy will probably get 25 to life for insurance fraud and vehicular homicide. What a moron.I don't know where you live, but do you really think that insurance and police personel are THAT stupid? You must be really thick. I'm not going to get into what insurance appraisers like myself look for, but most of the time we can tell if the damage matches the claim. So after you move your vehicle to that ditch (most likely a mile from the track, right genius?), don't be surprised if A) the insurance company denies your claim and B) the insurance company and the local prosecutors office decides to file charges. I HAVE seen this happen. The last conviction I recall (in Michigan) was good for 6 years.
As for street racing, this speaks volumes of your intelligence. A speed contest is a speed contest, even on the street. If the insurance company gets a copy of the police report and they find this was due to a street race, THEY WILL DENY YOUR CLAIM! And this includes the medical insurance for you and your unlucky passengers, any property liability damage (parked cars, buildings, etc.), or the other car you may have hit. And the reverse applies if dumbass number two hits you! Again, I have seen this happen. This is from 19 years of claims experience. Can you imagine how many years the jail sentence will be if you seriously hurt or kill someone during this street race??? 10 years? 25 Years? Do you REALLY want to take that chance???
I like racing as much as anyone (see my signature, I DO RACE!) but if you can't afford to roll your car up into a ball and walk away, you can't afford to race. I carry PL/PD if the race car hits the street, and my track carries it's own insurance to cover injuries and liability (notice they don't cover my car either).
There are a few companies (Parrish comes to mind) that insure race cars. These policies usually have high deductibles and a limit on coverages. If you're really worried about wrecking your car at the track and can't afford to walk away from your car, you might want to check this type of insurance out.
Originally Posted by Midnight F-117A
No.
But i've heard some take their cars onto the street, crash it again or stage it like they ran into a ditch and call the tow truck to tow it from there to a bodyshop and say it happened on the street.
But i've heard some take their cars onto the street, crash it again or stage it like they ran into a ditch and call the tow truck to tow it from there to a bodyshop and say it happened on the street.
As you can see you also race, the last time I raced was at Englishtown Raceway Park in NJ, i'm sure they carry insurance for their own protection for liability which doesn't include damage to the racer's cars.
Too many vairables can happen at the track, ranging from driver's control to part(s) failure which would be impossible to gauge in order to have a good coverage with little to no exclusions.
How about those idiots who had a insurance scam ring running in NY near or in NYC which they're all doctors, lawyers, etc and they pick up a hitch hiker or a passgener, get into an accident by slamming on the brake out of nowhere to get someone to rearend them on purpose and they send in medicial claims to the insurance companies (not sure if it was the people who staged it to happen or the passengers, but some of them did get paid a small fee to be in it too) and it has been running for a few years which netted in billons of dollars until the insurance caught up with them and got them all in a court of law for fraud.
01-29-2004, 02:09 PM
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Insurance fraud on vehicles rarely results in ANY jail time, and most of the time no charges are even filed. The jail times cited previously are probably on convictions for multiple counts, ie. body shops or bad claims "organizers". Civil action is much more likely than criminal. And yes, the majority of cops are pretty thick as a matter of fact. And claims adjusters, for the most part, are overworked and underpaid and just want to get a quick claim written and could care less the validity of the claim, turnover is also extremely high in that line of work, so your odds of getting a "rook" is very high. Of course there are exceptions to all of this, so no one get your panties in a bunch. Not making any good or evil judgements, just the facts.
I do agree with the advise that if you cannot picture yourself walking away from your totaled car with no insurace benefits, you may not want to take it to the track. Street racing, on the other hand, is very hard to prove after the fact of an accident.
I do agree with the advise that if you cannot picture yourself walking away from your totaled car with no insurace benefits, you may not want to take it to the track. Street racing, on the other hand, is very hard to prove after the fact of an accident.
01-29-2004, 02:47 PM
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don't all the tracks record your information, name, car, etc every time you pay to get in to race and inspect? I think those records would be easily handed over to any insurance investigator. I'm sure any time a wreck occurrs at a track there is safety people and it is probably logged due to law as well. Unless your at an outlaw track. It might be very easy for them to just look at the books at the local tracks and see "car owned to so and so, ran, crashed, EMC called, etc". i highly doubt they don't keep records of accidents at the track. The tracks have to has insurance in case someone dies and they get sued even though you sign away your rights on the paper when you register to race, doesn't mean that a lawyer can't sue the owners of the track for negligence etc. (Ie tech didn't look for a driveshaft loop, car flipped, crashed), case for negligence.
Ask the owners of a track if they have to keep records of tech inspection and accidents. I'm guessing for their own insurance they do. This would undermine you to fraud.
Same thing for auto-x/road race. Folks crashing them pretty vipers, they are eating the costs on their cars. If you can't afford to crash, don't race.
None of us can afford to crash, but it is a chance, maybe less so at a drag event since i see it very rarely, but go to a road-race and you'll see alot more crashing. Hell you might even get a video of yourself crashing, as so many people are taping events these days. evidence. Kinda why i'm always sketchy about doing runs with the camera in car on the street. If the cops catch you, best smash that tape or burn it
We all break the laws, i mean come on, lets be real, just own up to it. If you get caught racing your gonna pay, isn't that part of the thrill? (street racing,etc). if there was no chance for danger, be it blowing your motor, or crashing, the sport wouldn't be so fun after all.
Ask the owners of a track if they have to keep records of tech inspection and accidents. I'm guessing for their own insurance they do. This would undermine you to fraud.
Same thing for auto-x/road race. Folks crashing them pretty vipers, they are eating the costs on their cars. If you can't afford to crash, don't race.
None of us can afford to crash, but it is a chance, maybe less so at a drag event since i see it very rarely, but go to a road-race and you'll see alot more crashing. Hell you might even get a video of yourself crashing, as so many people are taping events these days. evidence. Kinda why i'm always sketchy about doing runs with the camera in car on the street. If the cops catch you, best smash that tape or burn it
We all break the laws, i mean come on, lets be real, just own up to it. If you get caught racing your gonna pay, isn't that part of the thrill? (street racing,etc). if there was no chance for danger, be it blowing your motor, or crashing, the sport wouldn't be so fun after all.
01-29-2004, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by slik98z
try the "i hit a dog" routine. Insurance fraud smerence fraud...insurance companies JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY in the US get to the top because of one very important business skill. Being able to Lie and then cover it up. plus its still a consumers business...customer is always right. If i say i hit a dog, i hit a fuggin dog. they are still getting money, im getting my car back, most likely someone else is playign 3rd party and is getting money...everyone is happy. its the U.S. its all about the green and this green aint smokable.
By the way, please paint up the air bags while you're redoing the interior seeking your "bling". I'm sure that the lying adjuster who'll have to cut the check will just yuk it up when you lose your eye site from the paint chips when the air bag deployes. And many, if not most will not insure that car without the air bags in them. But hey, what do I know right? BLING, BLING!
01-29-2004, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 98Z-6Speed
Insurance fraud on vehicles rarely results in ANY jail time, and most of the time no charges are even filed. The jail times cited previously are probably on convictions for multiple counts, ie. body shops or bad claims "organizers". Civil action is much more likely than criminal. And yes, the majority of cops are pretty thick as a matter of fact. And claims adjusters, for the most part, are overworked and underpaid and just want to get a quick claim written and could care less the validity of the claim, turnover is also extremely high in that line of work, so your odds of getting a "rook" is very high. Of course there are exceptions to all of this, so no one get your panties in a bunch. Not making any good or evil judgements, just the facts.
I do agree with the advise that if you cannot picture yourself walking away from your totaled car with no insurace benefits, you may not want to take it to the track. Street racing, on the other hand, is very hard to prove after the fact of an accident.
I do agree with the advise that if you cannot picture yourself walking away from your totaled car with no insurace benefits, you may not want to take it to the track. Street racing, on the other hand, is very hard to prove after the fact of an accident.
With street racing, with two cars moving at over 70-80 MPH before the accident, the only way there are no witnesses is if everyone, including the witnesses are killed. Kill a family that made the mistake to pull out in front of this race, and I guarantee there will be a witness. Wreck a car at 70 or 80, and the car looks like it was wrecked at 70 or 80. Why do you think the thick cops close down roads for hours after a major accident? This is how long it takes to complete the scene investigation. And many of these accidents make the papers and TV news, even in NY.
01-29-2004, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Swifster
The six year example was a guy in a Porsche 911 who rolled his car at Waterford Hills during an autocross-style event. The car was towed two miles away and deposited in a ditch along the side of the road. He calls the sheriff who comes out and writes a police report on this accident. He files his claim with the insurance company for the $55,000 car. Insurance company full of claims adjusters, who for the most part, are overworked and underpaid and just want to get a quick claim written and could care less the validity of the claim, decided that the details didn't fit the loss. During their investigation, they found witnesses to the roll-over at the track, and witnesses to the flatbed dumping the car into the ditch. Claim denied. Now the insurance company sends this to their in-house Special Investigation Unit (SIU). SIU checks into things further. Most of these guys are former cops, and the majority of cops are pretty thick as a matter of fact. Former thick cops go to the county sheriffs department and prosecutors office with charges of insurance fraud, filing a false report, etc., etc. Guy goes to court, is found guilty by a jury of his peers and gets 6 years (not to say some may be suspended for good behavior, time served, etc.). The guy DID go to jail.
With street racing, with two cars moving at over 70-80 MPH before the accident, the only way there are no witnesses is if everyone, including the witnesses are killed. Kill a family that made the mistake to pull out in front of this race, and I guarantee there will be a witness. Wreck a car at 70 or 80, and the car looks like it was wrecked at 70 or 80. Why do you think the thick cops close down roads for hours after a major accident? This is how long it takes to complete the scene investigation. And many of these accidents make the papers and TV news, even in NY.
With street racing, with two cars moving at over 70-80 MPH before the accident, the only way there are no witnesses is if everyone, including the witnesses are killed. Kill a family that made the mistake to pull out in front of this race, and I guarantee there will be a witness. Wreck a car at 70 or 80, and the car looks like it was wrecked at 70 or 80. Why do you think the thick cops close down roads for hours after a major accident? This is how long it takes to complete the scene investigation. And many of these accidents make the papers and TV news, even in NY.
Now pick 'um out and go catch some criminals, Friday.
01-29-2004, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by samz28
sounds like a CSI:miami episode..
OMG that is the first time I have actually laughed out loud from a message board posting in a looooong time.
Nice. And appropriate being that it references arguably the absolute most inaccurate television show ever made.
01-29-2004, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by slik98z
try the "i hit a dog" routine. Insurance fraud smerence fraud...insurance companies JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY in the US get to the top because of one very important business skill. Being able to Lie and then cover it up. plus its still a consumers business...customer is always right. If i say i hit a dog, i hit a fuggin dog. they are still getting money, im getting my car back, most likely someone else is playign 3rd party and is getting money...everyone is happy. its the U.S. its all about the green and this green aint smokable.
No offense but you know very little about how the insurance business works, its not your fault, theres TONS of misconceptions out there its impossible to squash them all. And btw Companies arent as crooked as you might hink, but its people with attitudes like yours and Midnight F-117's that make them really **** when it comes to questionable stuff.
Just my $0.02
01-29-2004, 10:55 PM
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BTW AFAIK Most Insurance companies when a serious accident or total wreck claim is filed on a car like A camaro, and even Civics now etc within about 20 or so miles of a drag strip, they practically ALWAYS check the local track's records. And those guys aint gonna protect you. And trust me, we ALWAYS file criminal charges.
01-29-2004, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by slik98z
try the "i hit a dog" routine. Insurance fraud smerence fraud...insurance companies JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY in the US get to the top because of one very important business skill. Being able to Lie and then cover it up. plus its still a consumers business...customer is always right. If i say i hit a dog, i hit a fuggin dog. they are still getting money, im getting my car back, most likely someone else is playign 3rd party and is getting money...everyone is happy. its the U.S. its all about the green and this green aint smokable.
01-30-2004, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by goodhands
This is what we in the insurance business call a sub-standard risk. This is a perfect example of why the typical young male driver pays more for auto insurance because of the idiosy of a few that think like this.
01-30-2004, 07:39 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, they are still much too easy on people who commit insurance fraud. There was a guy I worked with who had 2 different vehicles stolen and burned. His accomplice ended up coming clean each time (different guy the second time). He ended up serving no time, received checks for both cars and paid back like 1/3 total of the checks he received. I think he paid the second 1/3 of the checks in lawyers fees, but the SOB came out ahead money wise. Now, he was driving uninsured vehicles last I knew.
Mind you - I in no way shape or form advocate any such actions and think you are less than average intelligence if you do. If you can't afford to play, don't. Period.
Mind you - I in no way shape or form advocate any such actions and think you are less than average intelligence if you do. If you can't afford to play, don't. Period.
01-30-2004, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Rogue Leader
BTW AFAIK Most Insurance companies when a serious accident or total wreck claim is filed on a car like A camaro, and even Civics now etc within about 20 or so miles of a drag strip, they practically ALWAYS check the local track's records. And those guys aint gonna protect you. And trust me, we ALWAYS file criminal charges.
01-30-2004, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 98Z-6Speed
Ummmmm, YOU nor GEICO can file criminal charges of any sort. Only the DA can file criminal charges.
Most insurance companies (and I handle the vehicle appraisals for 6 here in Michigan) won't hesitate to persue criminal charges anymore.
You know, this thread shows why your rates are high. No one reads their policy and then they feel that regardless of what this contract says, the insured doesn't feel this should apply to them. And when the insurance company denies their claim WITH GOOD CAUSE they feel they are being cheated. Read your policies. Understand what is covered and what is not. If you don't like the wording on the policy, GET ANOTHER POLICY. If someone steals your aftermarket stereo equipment and you didn't read your policy to find that this wasn't covered, who's fault is that? If you don't mention what you want to do, or what additional equipment your vehicle has to your agent, what do you expect?You have 8 points on your record and wonder why you pay $3000 a year. And again, who's fault is this?
This is the insurance companies fault, right?
01-30-2004, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 98Z-6Speed
Ummmmm, YOU nor GEICO can file criminal charges of any sort. Only the DA can file criminal charges.
I didnt feel like I needed to spell it out for everyone but you so eloquently did. Id Argue the point more but Swiftster said it much better than I think I could have worded it. 3/4ths of the stuff I tell new policyholders goes in one ear out the other, and I take the time to tell people things like their stereo equipment and stuff isnt covered, etc (stuff of that nature). I dont know about you guys but being that Insurance is an intangible object youre damn sure since I'm giving them $3k of my hard earned cash a year Im gonna know exactly what I am getting!
Last edited by Rogue Leader; 01-30-2004 at 06:53 PM.
01-31-2004, 07:19 PM
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I dont know about you guys but being that Insurance is an intangible object youre damn sure since I'm giving them $3k of my hard earned cash a year Im gonna know exactly what I am getting![/QUOTE]
3k a year, wow. You may want to shop around a little bit, that is awfully high.
3k a year, wow. You may want to shop around a little bit, that is awfully high.