700hp Daily Driver?
09-24-2010, 08:56 PM
#21
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Why would you want or need a DD to have 700-750rwhp?? Just to say you are making that much for bragging rights or do you really think you need that much? Do you realize how much hp that really is and what a car like that is capable of even with a skilled driver behind the wheel?
The mention of the words 750rwhp in a 4th gen f body, along with DD, reliability, creature comforts, fuel economy and cost effectiveness sounds more like a dream than reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old but it gets aggravating to hear a college educated person with a degree in mechanical engineering ask if their 750rwhp car can use the stock driveshaft. I mean, come on now. Seriously?
The mention of the words 750rwhp in a 4th gen f body, along with DD, reliability, creature comforts, fuel economy and cost effectiveness sounds more like a dream than reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old but it gets aggravating to hear a college educated person with a degree in mechanical engineering ask if their 750rwhp car can use the stock driveshaft. I mean, come on now. Seriously?
09-25-2010, 12:27 PM
#22
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Wow! Thanks for all the help guys! I love this site, lots of helpful information, not only in this thread but all over this site.
These two statements seem to contradict themselves, unless you just mean that running a big cube NA motor to achieve these goals with a radical cam and all other mods wouldn't be street friendly. So which would be better for a nicer, more sedate street setup such as I described? A 350-370ci setup with more boost, or a 418-427ci setup with less boost?
Another noob question but what kinda suspension parts would I be looking at? I've looked at stuff for other cars for eliminating body roll and making them handle better through an autocross course and such but never at parts specifically to keep the car planted under hard acceleration. I'm sure there is alot more info in the suspension portion of this site so I will go look tehre as well.
No I don't need it, so yeah basically just for bragging rights and to say that I can. I don't know about everyone else but to me it is way cooler seeing a high hp nice dependable street car run an amazing time at the strip that still has full functionality for the street and can be run and driven reliably home with most of the comforts that it came from the factory with than it is seeing some hacked apart, molested, gutted thing run the same time and then get trailered home. I just want the car to be able to be daily driven back and forth to work if I wanted to (during the summer that is.) I just want that kind of dependability and full streetability.
As far as the driveshaft, yeah it seems like kind of a crazy question, but I've seen crazier things with stock components being able to handle way more than the vehicle they came out of made so I just figured I would ask.
Sounds like a tuning problem to me...
To make that kind of power n/a is going to take some serious cubes or revs...either will be expensive and/or not street friendly.
Go start reading up in the forced induction section, that kind of power shouldn't be a problem for a well sorted setup, you'll be able to do it with any base of LSx engine(5.3, lq4/9, ls1, ls2, ls3 etc...) but usually more cubes will let you do it more sedately on pump gas. I would be looking at doing a forged ls2 or 370 lq9 with a 75-80mm turbo and th400 or 4l80e if it were me, but there are tons of different ways to skin that cat.
To make that kind of power n/a is going to take some serious cubes or revs...either will be expensive and/or not street friendly.
Go start reading up in the forced induction section, that kind of power shouldn't be a problem for a well sorted setup, you'll be able to do it with any base of LSx engine(5.3, lq4/9, ls1, ls2, ls3 etc...) but usually more cubes will let you do it more sedately on pump gas. I would be looking at doing a forged ls2 or 370 lq9 with a 75-80mm turbo and th400 or 4l80e if it were me, but there are tons of different ways to skin that cat.
lq9 iron block with a D1 or F1 is very common on here. With the right cam and heads you can easily achieve 700 hp. You will also need good suspension in rear, S60 or 9 bolt rear and a good stall. For the rear you can contact Midwest chassis and they can steer you in the right direction. Check the vendor list on right. Some that come to mind are Texas Speed, Late Model Racecraft, Speed inc, Vengeance racing. Suspension setups you can talk with Sam Strano. Lots of good reviews on his stuff.
Good Luck with your build. I'll be starting mine soon as funds come in.
Good Luck with your build. I'll be starting mine soon as funds come in.
Why would you want or need a DD to have 700-750rwhp?? Just to say you are making that much for bragging rights or do you really think you need that much? Do you realize how much hp that really is and what a car like that is capable of even with a skilled driver behind the wheel?
The mention of the words 750rwhp in a 4th gen f body, along with DD, reliability, creature comforts, fuel economy and cost effectiveness sounds more like a dream than reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old but it gets aggravating to hear a college educated person with a degree in mechanical engineering ask if their 750rwhp car can use the stock driveshaft. I mean, come on now. Seriously?
The mention of the words 750rwhp in a 4th gen f body, along with DD, reliability, creature comforts, fuel economy and cost effectiveness sounds more like a dream than reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old but it gets aggravating to hear a college educated person with a degree in mechanical engineering ask if their 750rwhp car can use the stock driveshaft. I mean, come on now. Seriously?
As far as the driveshaft, yeah it seems like kind of a crazy question, but I've seen crazier things with stock components being able to handle way more than the vehicle they came out of made so I just figured I would ask.
09-25-2010, 09:35 PM
#24
it can be done ,research every thing .you will need LCA,adjustable torque arm,9"or 12 bolt ,a trans from hell.a mucho fuel system.you will have to talk to all the blower or turbo people.E85 or unleaded?so much more ,but worth it.
09-25-2010, 11:46 PM
#25
700hp is a LOT of power and will not be fun for a DD unless it's a turbo car or something, just pray to God you never hit boost. I had a 400hp heads/cam Trans Am and the damn car spun around when it kicked second just cruising with light rain. With my WS6 I went to pass a car in 4th gear doing 40 in light rain and the damn rear end broke loose, I didn't even know what happened until the tires caught grip and jerked the car the opposite way. Being 16 had nothing to do with it either, some times **** happens but with 700hp a lot more **** will happen than usual.
09-26-2010, 01:23 AM
#26
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These two statements seem to contradict themselves, unless you just mean that running a big cube NA motor to achieve these goals with a radical cam and all other mods wouldn't be street friendly. So which would be better for a nicer, more sedate street setup such as I described? A 350-370ci setup with more boost, or a 418-427ci setup with less boost?
With a turbo, you can make 700whp with a 4.8l if you wanted too, but it will take more cam, more boost(thus possibly limiting the use of pump gas), more revs etc vs using a (relatively)lazy 408 on low boost making the same power.
Also, your drivetrain choice will make a pretty huge difference in dyno numbers. a car making 750whp with a m6 and stock rear, might only make 600whp with a th400(unlocked converter) and strong rear. That being said, the th400 car will hold up a lot better and still be faster despite the low dyno numbers.
Lastly, that kind of power isn't really that much for a full weight f-body. Don't get my wrong, the car will be fast, but that's far from gratuitous/unusable. Just keep some sticky tires on it and don't expect to be able to mat it in the first gear or two without a little wheel spin.
09-26-2010, 01:35 AM
#27
As mentioned before in this post, the supporting mods/upgrades need to be addressed as well, not just the motor. My motor made 700 hp N/A (93 octane) on the dyno before I put it in the car. But with that, my tranny is built, a single disk textrilla and a 12 bolt complete my build (among other things). I can DD my car, and drive it every chance I get. Complete with A/C. However, I assure you the motor was not cheap! Only thing I am lacking is your need for 20mpg. As I am sure I am waaay below that
09-26-2010, 03:11 PM
#29
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To make 700+whp n/a you are going to need a pretty special setup and probably more cubes than you can get out of any regular production block(LSX "bowtie" block excluded). That will be expensive, and possibly impossible to do using pump gas while keeping daily driver friendly.
With a turbo, you can make 700whp with a 4.8l if you wanted too, but it will take more cam, more boost(thus possibly limiting the use of pump gas), more revs etc vs using a (relatively)lazy 408 on low boost making the same power.
Also, your drivetrain choice will make a pretty huge difference in dyno numbers. a car making 750whp with a m6 and stock rear, might only make 600whp with a th400(unlocked converter) and strong rear. That being said, the th400 car will hold up a lot better and still be faster despite the low dyno numbers.
Lastly, that kind of power isn't really that much for a full weight f-body. Don't get my wrong, the car will be fast, but that's far from gratuitous/unusable. Just keep some sticky tires on it and don't expect to be able to mat it in the first gear or two without a little wheel spin.
With a turbo, you can make 700whp with a 4.8l if you wanted too, but it will take more cam, more boost(thus possibly limiting the use of pump gas), more revs etc vs using a (relatively)lazy 408 on low boost making the same power.
Also, your drivetrain choice will make a pretty huge difference in dyno numbers. a car making 750whp with a m6 and stock rear, might only make 600whp with a th400(unlocked converter) and strong rear. That being said, the th400 car will hold up a lot better and still be faster despite the low dyno numbers.
Lastly, that kind of power isn't really that much for a full weight f-body. Don't get my wrong, the car will be fast, but that's far from gratuitous/unusable. Just keep some sticky tires on it and don't expect to be able to mat it in the first gear or two without a little wheel spin.
As mentioned before in this post, the supporting mods/upgrades need to be addressed as well, not just the motor. My motor made 700 hp N/A (93 octane) on the dyno before I put it in the car. But with that, my tranny is built, a single disk textrilla and a 12 bolt complete my build (among other things). I can DD my car, and drive it every chance I get. Complete with A/C. However, I assure you the motor was not cheap! Only thing I am lacking is your need for 20mpg. As I am sure I am waaay below that
11-14-2010, 08:45 PM
#30
700 RWHP in a DD is possible but is going to be VERY expensive. IMO, Mighty Mouse has the best streetable high-horsepower car in the F-body community. His setup is a built LS2, turbo, 4L80E, 9". He drives it to work if the weather permits and gets 20 MPG.
11-14-2010, 09:59 PM
#31
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A 700hp DD IMO is not really worth it haha. I'm not trying to steer you away from the build, but sometimes I don't think people understand what "fast" really is. A 500hp LS1 can run low 11's and high 10's in the 1/4 if the rest of the setup is done right... On the street, you are never going to use all of that power(most likely).
I am a former mechanic, and am now a junior working of my mechanical engineering degree. I feel like I've got a pretty good blend of both real world wrenching and now theory and design. 700hp is a helluva lot more than people think... Have you ever ridden in a true 500hp car? Not crank, or guestimate, but a real one... Pretty damn ridiculous compared to most street vehicles. I can't imagine a true 700whp car doing anything on the street, and it would most likely be more trouble than it's worth for reliability and drivability...
Btw, the 500hp car that I was in earlier this year(495/520) is getting 8mpg...
So if u go big and don't wanna go nitrous, I'd say turbo all the way. But a LQ9 with forged internals and low compression with good heads, a nitrous cam and a 200hp direct shot would easily get u above 650rwhp.
Good luck with the new job and the car! I will be working for Dana Axle in January most likely. Can't wait to work on some gears haha
I am a former mechanic, and am now a junior working of my mechanical engineering degree. I feel like I've got a pretty good blend of both real world wrenching and now theory and design. 700hp is a helluva lot more than people think... Have you ever ridden in a true 500hp car? Not crank, or guestimate, but a real one... Pretty damn ridiculous compared to most street vehicles. I can't imagine a true 700whp car doing anything on the street, and it would most likely be more trouble than it's worth for reliability and drivability...
Btw, the 500hp car that I was in earlier this year(495/520) is getting 8mpg...
So if u go big and don't wanna go nitrous, I'd say turbo all the way. But a LQ9 with forged internals and low compression with good heads, a nitrous cam and a 200hp direct shot would easily get u above 650rwhp.
Good luck with the new job and the car! I will be working for Dana Axle in January most likely. Can't wait to work on some gears haha
11-14-2010, 10:53 PM
#33
The reason alot of us says its nearly impossible to be street driven is because:
1) Cost. When running that kind of power it puts a hellofalot of stress on EVERYTHING Its not just the rear end, transmission, and clutch. We are talking valvesprings being stiffer due to the higher lift cam. Lifters, rockers...Piston rings, virtually every mechanical part inside your engine will experience alot more stress than a stock motor. Fatigue of parts will ALWAYS happen. So that being said is it worth $2300 to change a triple disc clutch when its time to change a clutch or maybe $980 for another set of JE pistons when you go lean and burn one? Is it worth $1200 bucks to replace a forged stroker crank when you spin a bearing? This is just the cost of parts. If you are not proficient enough to repair problems yourself plan on spending twice as much.
2) Refer to 1)
I just dont see the point in spending $40,000-$50,000 in a car that will already be on borrowed time. Not only that but you have a BUNCH OF ******* IDIOTS that are on the road. It only takes 1 mistake. Everywhere you park you will be at the back of the parking lot because of all the ******* morons that love to sling their doors into a beautiful car.
IMHO...Have a daily driver, something that gets good gas mileage and you dont have to worry about someone ******* up. but if you are dead set on having you camaro as a daily driver, just do a heads and cam. **** man you will already be able to roast nearly everything on the road. Save the big bad *** car for a weekend fun car, keep those pointless *** miles off that expensive *** motor/car you have.
I'm not someone with a regular stock fbody. I honestly sought out to do the same thing you are doing. I sunk about $14k into my engine. EVERYTHING broke around it. first it was a driveshaft, then it was a rear end, then it was a torque arm. I have a built 408. Balanced, Blueprinted, Decked, Align Honed, Procharged etc etc. I wanted it to be a reliable daily driver, Now that I have spent so much damned money in it I would absolutely hate to have to drive it to work and back on a daily basis. I get around 13MPG. I can hit 140MPH at the end of the onramp getting on the highway. big ******* deal. Its dangerous. Very dangerous. 700 horsepower will boil the tires at 60MPH and could potentially set you sideways on the highway, then you get hit by an 18 wheeler, BAM, your dead...Winter driving, forget it....every gear you are in will do nothing but set you sideways and put you in a ditch. Wet roads is just about as bad.
I'm sorry to break hopes bro, I just dont want you wasting money or worse. 400hp is more than enough for a daily driver.
Stephen
1) Cost. When running that kind of power it puts a hellofalot of stress on EVERYTHING Its not just the rear end, transmission, and clutch. We are talking valvesprings being stiffer due to the higher lift cam. Lifters, rockers...Piston rings, virtually every mechanical part inside your engine will experience alot more stress than a stock motor. Fatigue of parts will ALWAYS happen. So that being said is it worth $2300 to change a triple disc clutch when its time to change a clutch or maybe $980 for another set of JE pistons when you go lean and burn one? Is it worth $1200 bucks to replace a forged stroker crank when you spin a bearing? This is just the cost of parts. If you are not proficient enough to repair problems yourself plan on spending twice as much.
2) Refer to 1)
I just dont see the point in spending $40,000-$50,000 in a car that will already be on borrowed time. Not only that but you have a BUNCH OF ******* IDIOTS that are on the road. It only takes 1 mistake. Everywhere you park you will be at the back of the parking lot because of all the ******* morons that love to sling their doors into a beautiful car.
IMHO...Have a daily driver, something that gets good gas mileage and you dont have to worry about someone ******* up. but if you are dead set on having you camaro as a daily driver, just do a heads and cam. **** man you will already be able to roast nearly everything on the road. Save the big bad *** car for a weekend fun car, keep those pointless *** miles off that expensive *** motor/car you have.
I'm not someone with a regular stock fbody. I honestly sought out to do the same thing you are doing. I sunk about $14k into my engine. EVERYTHING broke around it. first it was a driveshaft, then it was a rear end, then it was a torque arm. I have a built 408. Balanced, Blueprinted, Decked, Align Honed, Procharged etc etc. I wanted it to be a reliable daily driver, Now that I have spent so much damned money in it I would absolutely hate to have to drive it to work and back on a daily basis. I get around 13MPG. I can hit 140MPH at the end of the onramp getting on the highway. big ******* deal. Its dangerous. Very dangerous. 700 horsepower will boil the tires at 60MPH and could potentially set you sideways on the highway, then you get hit by an 18 wheeler, BAM, your dead...Winter driving, forget it....every gear you are in will do nothing but set you sideways and put you in a ditch. Wet roads is just about as bad.
I'm sorry to break hopes bro, I just dont want you wasting money or worse. 400hp is more than enough for a daily driver.
Stephen
11-16-2010, 07:16 PM
#35
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I agree with most of these guys about starting smaller with like 500hp or 400hp and seeing how you like it and how much you will use it on the street because that is a great deal of hp just to walk around saying yeah my car has more hp then your car. Also there will always be someone else who can say my car is faster then yours. I agree too with the whole DD and parking at the bottom of the lot because dumb MFers fling there doors open into a nice car just because they park next to it. Not trying to steer you wrong I think that it would be great to have a car like that but I also think it would be great to own Playboy too....
11-17-2010, 08:05 PM
#38
Why would you want or need a DD to have 700-750rwhp?? Just to say you are making that much for bragging rights or do you really think you need that much? Do you realize how much hp that really is and what a car like that is capable of even with a skilled driver behind the wheel?
The mention of the words 750rwhp in a 4th gen f body, along with DD, reliability, creature comforts, fuel economy and cost effectiveness sounds more like a dream than reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old but it gets aggravating to hear a college educated person with a degree in mechanical engineering ask if their 750rwhp car can use the stock driveshaft. I mean, come on now. Seriously?
The mention of the words 750rwhp in a 4th gen f body, along with DD, reliability, creature comforts, fuel economy and cost effectiveness sounds more like a dream than reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old but it gets aggravating to hear a college educated person with a degree in mechanical engineering ask if their 750rwhp car can use the stock driveshaft. I mean, come on now. Seriously?
I think your definition of a DD may be slightly skewed.
FWIW, I am in the process of a N/A build (aluminum block) that will put me in the range you are specifying. DD? LMAO....uuuuuhhhh, no. No "part time" horsepower on the bottle and isn't going to be a track only car. Just good 'ol fashion, full time grunt. Can it be done, yes....and for a lot less than 40-50k. Downside is that it will probably be completely useless on the street as it should annihilate tires through the first 6 gears when pushed, but is designed to cruise too... Time will tell how friendly once its complete.
Pick your poison...
N/A = big cubes, a good builder and a well thought out combo...period.
F/I = moderate cubes, strong lower end, a good builder and a well thought out combo (see a pattern
)Cost for F/I might be slightly less, but can't confirm....only an assumption. Long block will be less but with added cost of the chosen forced air weapon (turbo or blower), hard to say.
Kind of a silly goal given your situation but hey, we all dream...
11-17-2010, 10:10 PM
#39
750 horsepower with no juice and no power adder yet a weekend street driven cruiser? I dont see how that is even possible unless you are talking about a 700+ cubic inch big block. Even then it would have to be an aggressive engine possible even on race gas because of very high compression. I could see a 420 horsepower N/A cruiser but 750 horsepower???
