Element

iTrader: (5)

Big difference in 1/8" larger primaries (usually on headers with better merges, to boot) and running a 2.5" vs a 5" exhaust. Course, that gets into scavenging, exhaust velocity, and all that sort of thing, but suffice to say, a single 3" pipe is plenty for a stock cube/stock head LS1, and a 5" would be sufficiently overkill that I wouldn't be surprised to see a power loss due to loss of proper scavenging.

Yeah, because a $6 filter every 6 months is gonna kill my mod budget. I'd rather not deal with dirty, oily air getting into my engine and spending $6 twice a year, and not dealing with having to clean a dirty, oily, disgusting K&N. I've run them before in other vehicles, and I never will again.

Tan327

iTrader: (15)

Just threw mine in the garbage last week and dropped in a paper Fram. My lightly oiled K&N was still soaking the MAF sensor wires and causing issues, don't have to worry about that anymore!

Starz T/A 17

iTrader: (6)

I agree that a K&N filter is a quality filter and I've run them with 0 issues I just think it's crazy to think that they add power. I've seen a lot of before/after dyno charts on here with a brand new paper filter vs. K&N and they were pretty much the same. And as far as skewing results it would be really easy. All K&N would have to do is find a old test car with a ton of miles on it that has a really dirty filter. And then do the baseline dyno with the dirty filter and then change it for a K&N. Well obviously you will see gains with a new/clean filter opposed to a dirty one. But the same gains would have been seen with a new paper filter.

And Sure 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 with produce different results because it has not maxed out their efficiency. My example of the stock car with a 3 inch pipe vs a 5 inch pipe was meant to show that on a stock car the 3 inch pipe will flow more then enough to maximize power. So adding a 5 inch pipe will not change the numbers. Its not like just because there is more flow possible out of the pipe that the exhaust is magically going to appear. The engine itself can only produce so much exhaust. just like the engine can only take in so much air.

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

There's a ton of data out there that show how horrible K&N filters filter. I went with an AFE pro-dry with my lid setup. The k&n doesn't even compare to the quality of the afe, not to mention its free to clean and it actually filters.

why87

i think i'll be taking the k&n filter out of my car now, thank you.

senicalj4579

iTrader: (41)

So we are suposed to believe this so called test from the company that claims theirs is the best?

LeanPocket

iTrader: (6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKn38nmXtg

I went to a convention one time, and they had a setup with every major brand side by side to compare air flow similar to this test, k&n being the best flowing. It is expensive, but it is reusable, has a nice warranty, looks good, and i think the design of the filter is superior.

With that being said, you can't go wrong either way cuz all a air filter is suppose to do is filtrate the air, the k&n does a good job, but not the best job, in that department. However, my MAS is clean so im happy

I jus like knowing my air filter flows really well, looks great in the engine dress up department, and is reusable

I will emphasize on you can't go wrong with going with a fram over a k&n

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

I'll remember this next time I take the SS out on the dirt track....

All I'm saying is I like MY fiter. I know HOW to oil it, I know HOW to take care of it, and Ihave NO problems with MINE.

I like the AMSoil filter, but I'd like to be able to wash it, and they reccommend against that. Again, wish AEM would make a panel filter.

This wasn't suppossed to turn into a damned pissing contest. I'm just stating what I have seen; that isn't BULLSHIT.

Element

iTrader: (5)

No, what's bullshit is your claim that your limited experience with K&Ns "negates" the arguments that it allows more dirt through. Just because YOU haven't seen problems with a couple street cars doesn't mean the myriad of people who have had nothing but problems with them are wrong. I haven't blown my 10-bolt up yet, so that must mean everyone else is wrong about how weak it is! See the faulty logic here? If you want to say you haven't had problems with your filters, fine; but don't insinuate that your experiences should be the baseline for how K&N is judged.

This argument comes up every single time with K&N; why people think that damn filter is magical constantly eludes me. It is a coarse-weave cotton filter; it is going to let more dirt in. End of story. "But you can run it longer than a paper filter before it gets dirty enough to need cleaned!" Why? Because it's not trapping as bloody much dirt.

K&Ns filter like ****, and do absolutely nothing to remove paper air filter "restrictions", because paper air filters aren't restrictive. If people want to use one to justify not spending $6 every few months on a paper filter, fine, but the whole "K&Ns flow and filter better than paper filters, and increase horsepower" **** gets old, especially since it's repeated ad nauseum every single time the topic rolls around.

superredss

a few guys in the silveradoss.com website got together with a dyno and put to test some of the common cold air intakes for the silverado ss. One of the intakes that they tested was the K&N. This is an unbiased opinion with results from the intakes on the same truck. http://www.silveradoss.com/forums/to...-wars-results/ Obviously this is not your ls1 but it gives a reference on an ls based motor.

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

That was a magazine test not a test by AEM, and there's a ton of other proof out there that they filter like ****. Hell my old intake with a K&N filter was coated with dust, but that must be lies too.

Search for K&N on bobistheoilguy, pretty much anyone that ran a K&N filter had excessive silicon levels in their oil analyses. Or continue to believe that a filter that doesn't even fit your vehicle without a POS gasket that you can see pinholes through filters just as good as a real filter.

Here's another test but it must be marketing to even though none of the filter companies had anything to do with it.

http://www.autohifidiszkont.hu/bmw-t...szuroteszt.pdf

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

AFE and Airaid both make dry washable filters. I just put an AFE in mine and the quality and fitment put the k&n to shame.

stingrayj

iTrader: (1)

As much as I hate to even contribute anything to one of these debates (Who knew that air filtration fell into the same category as religion and politics?), I do have one personal data point to add. My previous car was a 2006 Dodge Magnum R/T. These vehicles have a "hidden" diagnostic mode that shows real time rpm along with a bunch of other useful/useless information. After installing a K&N 63-1114 CAI system (cone filter) I was recording just over 300 rpms less when cruising at 65 mph. Thus, the engine was not working as hard with the K&N filter. The added noise from the CAI contributed to the butt-dyno perception that the car was a bit more powerful. The "power sensation" increased, but I can not confirm that there was actually any improvement from the filter itself since I never had the car dynoed. My mpg did not change from the CAI.

Later on I installed a Diablo Sport Predator tuner on the Magnum. The tuner for the Hemi engines has a tune for 91 and 93 octane and each octane tune is split into two seperate tunes...with CAI and without CAI. Which leads me to question the conspiracy..."Is Diablo Sport secretly working with K&N, etc., on the whole concept of better air flow by using their filters to produce more power?" Regardless, the Predator made a world of difference in the 5.7L Hemi engines. And the CAI played its role in that difference.

Granted that this has nothing to do with an LS1 powered vehicle in any manner, but the arguement of filtration and air flow seems much more general than a vehicle specific application. My spin on the whole discussion (and for some, arguement) is that the real benefits of a K&N, etc., filter vs. a paper filter will be vehicle, model, and trim level specific. In general, if the intake system in your vehicle is poorly designed, a "high flow" filter will likely gain you something on its own. If, however, the intake system is design well, as it is in the LS1s, a "high flow" filter will not gain you anything by itself. If you go beyond a stock motor or tune for the "high flow" filter, you are changing the parameters of the discussion and your results can vary significantly.

At the end of the day, it's just a filter. Are we really arguing about the potential gains of 5hp, maybe 10hp, (before losses) and possibly 0.5mpg? You'll loose more mpg just sitting in stop and go traffic! If you like it, buy it and drive it.

FWIW, I just purchased a used K&N for <$30. Flame on...

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

So your k&n filter magically changed your gearing? That's ignoring the fact that the throttle body is the point of restriction at part throttle, not the air filter.

stingrayj

iTrader: (1)

Nothing magical about. I just read the digital display built into the car. I offer no explination. Just the data.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Element, get off your ******* high horse.

This wasn't suppossed to turn into a damned pissing contest, as I STATED ABOVE. All I'm saying, is my PERSONAL views. I like them, I run them, I have in 5 F-body's, and my DD's (limited experience?). I've had NO issues with them. I'm not insinuating that my experience should be the baseline for ****. I'm simply stating MY experience. OP came in here and asked for opinions. We each gave ours.

You don't like them. Fine. You feel they let more dirt in... fine. I get that. We've both said our piece. Leave it at that. OP is going to make his own decision, and likely already has. (They do indeed flow better though....)

Element

iTrader: (5)

I'm not on a "high horse", I just tend to call bullshit when I see it - and your claiming your personal, anecdotal evidence on a very small test group "negated" all the argument about K&Ns not filtering as well as a paper filter was just that. Bullshit. It wasn't opinion, it was a statement of fact.

If you like them, fine, **** it, whatever. Your engine, your filthy oil, have fun. Just don't try and claim your anecdotal-based opinion is fact and negates anything to be argued against what you thing.

K&N threads - always more fun than watching atheists and Catholics go at it.

HoLLo

iTrader: (17)

Forums: where everyone has to have the last word. <3


I'm running a K&N on my car because it was on it when I got the car, but my next filter will be an Amsoil filter. If I found a K&N really cheap, I'd buy one. My experience does not include any negatives on them.

Playing devil's advocate here... Element, what studies can you provide to show dirty oil due 100% to the use of a K&N filter. Not saying they don't exist, but you are telling whigham about his "small test group". Let's see the opposite "small test group" that had dirty oil.

Canbarelygo

someone wasnt held enough as a child.

my car came with the fipk k&n thing and i dont think i would ever go to a lid and paper filter mainly for the fact that i like the idea of a 360 intake like a cone or the wierd oval cone of the fipk much better than the flat lid style and i have personally seen the outcome of several street races changed by the removal of the paper filter and going "open airbox" i watched several very close races changed (granted they were with slow cars but that makes the comparison easier to watch) by somethin as simple as eliminating the paper filter.

me and a friend did a little rental car test one night. he had a honda and i had a mazda 3. it was such a close race it was retarded. but i popped the hood snatched the paper filter (which was not dirty what so ever it was a 2010 model car that lived in town and had 4k miles on it) tossed it in the back seat and we re raced. i ended up out front by a car. you do the math on what a full car length adds up to in the 1/4. another test we did was a 4x4 rcsb 05 chevy 5.3 truck vs a 08 titan 4x4 extended cab. the chevy would pull the titan pretty consistently. we stopped, removed the paper filter and the titan ended up wining by half a truck.

reguardless look at your intake setup with a level head and youll realize more air may mean more dirt or more blah but if your that worried about it maybe you would be better suited with a 4dr accord. i dont see top fuel dragsters worryin about their damn filters when theirs all manner of bugs and birds that could be sucked up at a moments notice.

and for what its worth my car has had the k&n fipk on it since ive owned it which is 3 years by now probably and its got 193k miles on the 100% stock bottom end and last i checked theres no mud in my oil. keep fightnin the good fight.

Bramlok

iTrader: (7)

I agree that K&N has had some great marketing throughout the years. People are still drinking that K&N kool-aid and putting those K&N stickers on their car as soon as those filters go in.

I wouldn't use one myself. I think they're over priced junk. They're advertised as a high performance air filter that adds horsepower. As soon as people read that, they can't resist.

I prefer a good brand paper filter like Wix. If someone wants to use a K&N, that's their decision.