Looking for advice on street build
10-14-2011, 02:16 PM
#41
Hey Inetba. Thanks for considering UMI components. You'll be thrilled with anything you purchase from us. Our skilled craftsmen build everything right here in central PA.
I noticed you mentioned sliding around corners. I assume you want the back end to pivot? If so, you want more rear bar. Adding a huge front bar makes the car understeer or "push". Adding more rear bar makes it oversteer or become "loose". Rear bars with three holes allow you to tune the arm length and balance the car.
Let us know if we can help you decide what suspension parts you want/need.
Your whole build sounds fun!
thanks
ramey
I noticed you mentioned sliding around corners. I assume you want the back end to pivot? If so, you want more rear bar. Adding a huge front bar makes the car understeer or "push". Adding more rear bar makes it oversteer or become "loose". Rear bars with three holes allow you to tune the arm length and balance the car.
Let us know if we can help you decide what suspension parts you want/need.
Your whole build sounds fun!
thanks
ramey
10-14-2011, 02:51 PM
#42
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Hmm... So increasing the front bar increases understeer and increasing the rear bar increases oversteer? I thought it was the opposite! I could've made a huge mistake!
That helps my build out a ton because I was debating which rear size bar I wanted. Thank you!
My whole build is centered around a fun street car.
That helps my build out a ton because I was debating which rear size bar I wanted. Thank you!
My whole build is centered around a fun street car.
10-14-2011, 03:54 PM
#43
Hey Inetba. If a car is already neutral, i.e. slides all four tires in steady state cornering, adding more front bar will make it push. In the same regard, if the car is neutral in steady state, adding more rear bar will make it rotate. If you add a heavy front bar to an already understeering car it will understeer more. For most street applications a heavier front bar and a light rear bar is a good option because it makes the car feel "flatter" and most drivers don't explore the limits of adhesion enough in street driving to notice the difference of x amount of understeer vs y amount of understeer.
If you have any particular questions feel free to call us or PM/email me and I'll help you out.
If you have any particular questions feel free to call us or PM/email me and I'll help you out.
10-14-2011, 04:25 PM
#44
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I just thought it'd be fun to be able to throw the rear out at a corner if I felt like it.
Back to camshafts!
I've been reading the truth about LSA and I think I'm learning quite a bit.
The TruTorq level 2 cam looks really nice. Over 400tq and 400hp below 5,800 rpm. Looks like peak torque is around 4,600 which is really high but I guess I could deal with that since the torque curve is flat.
With a custom cam it'd probably look like 223/231 .610/.617 114 LSA 113 ICL (or 114+1)
I think this would give me a little over 400tq and hp below 5,800 rpm and advancing it a tad will bring the peaks closer to 3,800 while keeping overlap low enough I won't smell gas or exhaust sitting in a garage/at a light.
Back to camshafts!
I've been reading the truth about LSA and I think I'm learning quite a bit.
The TruTorq level 2 cam looks really nice. Over 400tq and 400hp below 5,800 rpm. Looks like peak torque is around 4,600 which is really high but I guess I could deal with that since the torque curve is flat.
With a custom cam it'd probably look like 223/231 .610/.617 114 LSA 113 ICL (or 114+1)
I think this would give me a little over 400tq and hp below 5,800 rpm and advancing it a tad will bring the peaks closer to 3,800 while keeping overlap low enough I won't smell gas or exhaust sitting in a garage/at a light.
10-14-2011, 04:37 PM
#45
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Now that I think about it, in a street setting drifting probably wouldn't work with a wavetrac rear end would it?
Oh well, I'd rather keep the wavetrac and give up the street shenanigans, big front bar AND rear bar it is!
Oh well, I'd rather keep the wavetrac and give up the street shenanigans, big front bar AND rear bar it is!
10-15-2011, 04:39 AM
#46
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You also keep coming back to not wanting to smell gas. You're going to smell gas with almost any car you get because, they run off gas. Get high flow cats on the car, and you'll reduce the "smell", but with great flowing exhaust, and a cam, you'll smell some. Mainly if you were standing behind the car. You want to put E-Cutouts on the car ( awesome IMO
) but when you do, you'll smell gas if you were sitting at a stop light, with them open.
10-15-2011, 12:45 PM
#47
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What I mean is I don't want the car to smell like it's broken or there's an exhaust leak somewhere but I just posted a thread asking how strong the smell is and they said as long as the exhaust is past the rear axle, no matter how big the overlap is I won't smell anything bad if I'm moving down the road so now I'm back to square one.
I'm looking for a streetable cam that puts out at least 400hp and 400tq below 4,500rpm with an intake, tb, long tube headers, free flowing exhaust, and an AFR 205 which probably raises my choices to quite a few. I know I'm going with custom cam but I need to establish a baseline.
I'm looking for a streetable cam that puts out at least 400hp and 400tq below 4,500rpm with an intake, tb, long tube headers, free flowing exhaust, and an AFR 205 which probably raises my choices to quite a few. I know I'm going with custom cam but I need to establish a baseline.
10-15-2011, 04:18 PM
#48
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Well, I just read a thing that said all things equal lowering duration 10 degrees will lower the effective powerband 500 rpm so with the trex as a baseline it'd be 231/239 .643/.649 110 LSA.
10-15-2011, 08:40 PM
#49
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Here's my $.02
I'm VERY happy with my mild EPS cam. Plus, Geoff will tell you (and sell you) what else you need in the way of v. springs, T chain, P rods etc.
I am real glad I got my baseline dyno, so I could measure my progress. The speed shop gave me discounts on successive dyno runs, as did the tuner.
As has been stated, I started with suspension upgrades. You want it to handle well first. The feel of a tight ride is as fun IMO as the increased power.
on this summary dyno sheet you can see the effect of the sequence of my mods, to give you an idea, from stock(w/catback) to cammed.
I'm VERY happy with my mild EPS cam. Plus, Geoff will tell you (and sell you) what else you need in the way of v. springs, T chain, P rods etc.
I am real glad I got my baseline dyno, so I could measure my progress. The speed shop gave me discounts on successive dyno runs, as did the tuner.
As has been stated, I started with suspension upgrades. You want it to handle well first. The feel of a tight ride is as fun IMO as the increased power.
on this summary dyno sheet you can see the effect of the sequence of my mods, to give you an idea, from stock(w/catback) to cammed.
10-15-2011, 08:55 PM
#50
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Alright, looking at those specs I think I'll go with 223/231 .636"/.643" 110+2 LSA.
That SHOULD give me 400+rwhp/rwtq at below 6k rpm.
I've also decided to shift at 6,200 instead of 5,800. Unless of course the cam stops making power that high.
That SHOULD give me 400+rwhp/rwtq at below 6k rpm.
I've also decided to shift at 6,200 instead of 5,800. Unless of course the cam stops making power that high.
10-16-2011, 02:20 PM
#51
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I can't remember what thread I read it in, but I think AFR recomends that you have a 4-6* split between your intake and exaust duration, so you would only need 227-229* of exaust duration. I could be wrong on those numbers, but you want to make sure you match you cam to your heads and you said you wanted AFR 205's.
10-16-2011, 07:55 PM
#52
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So, I'm not really sure which suspension parts to look at to help me get this power to the ground so I'm just going to upgrade everything.
Are adjustable A-Arms necessary? What do they adjust? Does it just make alignments easier? Necessary for lowering?
Metco lower control arm set.
The LCA relocation brackets come with the M9.
Madman panhard bar
BMR shock tower brace - this thing looks absolutely beastly.
UMI 3 point subframe - I hope this works with the convertible.
Since I would like to be able to slide around corners, I don't think I'll get an absolutely masssive rear sway bar. So I guess a 35mm front sway bar and a 22mm rear. Also looking into heavy duty brackets just to be safe.
M9 comes with torque arm.
I guess I'd get the QA1 and use stock springs because I've heard eibach makes awful springs for the F-body not only that but there are a lot of tall curbs where I live and I don't really want to drop more unless I need to.
Once again thank you all for helping me out!
Are adjustable A-Arms necessary? What do they adjust? Does it just make alignments easier? Necessary for lowering?
Metco lower control arm set.
The LCA relocation brackets come with the M9.
Madman panhard bar
BMR shock tower brace - this thing looks absolutely beastly.
UMI 3 point subframe - I hope this works with the convertible.
Since I would like to be able to slide around corners, I don't think I'll get an absolutely masssive rear sway bar. So I guess a 35mm front sway bar and a 22mm rear. Also looking into heavy duty brackets just to be safe.
M9 comes with torque arm.
I guess I'd get the QA1 and use stock springs because I've heard eibach makes awful springs for the F-body not only that but there are a lot of tall curbs where I live and I don't really want to drop more unless I need to.
Once again thank you all for helping me out!
