Titso

x2. I'm going with this setup once I get around to it.

ZeeSNuttS

3.73....3400-3600 stall (yank or vig) nittos 555 street legal drags. A shift kit and headers, line lock. That was my old set up and I owned a lot of ppl off the line and at the track back in 2005 when I was kinda fast LOL

Titso

Does that mean your kinda slow now? lol jk.

ZeeSNuttS

slow like your special ed brother Smple Jack LOL

n2o98T.A

well stalls on hold literlaly was going to order one but a few days before my rear end shot. so now imi replacing the entire rear end with 3.42s
(best bang for the buck)
stall im hopin is in the some what near future.
i can say i WILL not be installing it though. im simply fed up with removing and installing my transmission ive done it 3 times now in the past 3 months
replaced the transmission it blew on my after 5k miles and at 70mph (suppsedly the torque was built wrong)
then i got a new one put it in about 5 miles after install the flex plate cracked. so another removal and install.now 80 miles on this new transmisson and the rear end went out as i was pulling out of work at 15mph..
i really must have pissed off karma.. big time!

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

I wouldn't go any lower then a 3600 stall, kinda wish I went higher sometimes.

ranman02ta

3.90 or 3.73 + 4k stall for me, I think. I do a lot of x way

Tommyv8

iTrader: (8)

I drove my buddy's SS with heads, cam, 3.23s, and a Yank 3600. It really didn't feel that loose to me, tighter than I was expecting.
FWIW with a stock converter I dropped .2 from my 1/4 mile ET when I went from 2.73 gears to 3.42. The seat of the pants feel under WOT was much nicer.

StuntmanMike

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so say I don't care about ET's. I hit the track once or twice a year, it's a 4-5 hour round trip, and I get bored after 4 or 5 passes.

Say I want my car to be fun to drive around town. Wouldn't a gear swap still accomplish that? I can't see how swapping for 2.73's to a 3.42 or 3.73 wouldn't make the car more fun to drive.

ET's aside, those 2.73's just make it seem really slow off the line, and nagatively impacts driving enjoyment. I've thought my car felt slow from day 1, and I know it's because of the 2.73's.

I understand how a stall would also make a better launch, but I'm not going to be flooring it at every traffic light, so I won't get the full effect of it. I feel the gears would help with that feeling all through the powerband, and in any gear or rpm.

And I've never driven a stalled A4, so I can't say this would be true, but the "looseness" people mention with a stall and 2.73's just makes me envision feeling like I'm driving around with a slipping tranny every time I take off at part throttle.

Am I wrong here?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

A stall will also make it more fun to drive around town. IMO, a stock geared LS1 with a good stall is more fun to drive than a stock stalled LS1 with a 3.42-3.73. What feels most "fun" is a matter of opinion though, as there is no universal measurement for "fun".

I've never understood why people feel this way. I've owned two LS1s that came stock with 2.73s and two that came stock with 3.23s, and frankly, when they were all stock I noticed almost no different at all in how the rate of acceleration felt at most points in most gears. Actually, I found the 2.73s to feel better from a roll at certain speeds, since they allow for a higher speed downshift to 1st (3.23 cars are stuck in 2nd at anything above 29mph, but the 2.73 cars will drop back to 1st at all the way up to 37-38mph). 2.73s were a bit easier to launch on Z-rated street tires, but will still break free easily if you just shock the tires (or at least mine have).

Some people seem to be more sensitive to the effects of a gear swap than others. To me, going from 2.73 to 3.23 is barely noticeable. I find 2.73 to 3.73 is noticeable, but not an earth-shattering deal with a 4L60E car because this trans has a very aggressive internal 1st gear ratio (3.06:1), compared to an older car with a TH350/400 (2.52 and 2.48 1st gears, respectively). Doing a 2.73 to 3.73 swap on a TH350/400 car is very noticeable at launch IMO, much more so than with a 700R4/4L60E. I'm a bigger fan of gear swaps on older cars simply because they have a softer internal 1st gear ratio, and usually a lower rpm powerband (at stock to mild build levels) so drastically increased shift extension from a big stall won't do them much good, unlike the LS1s (not to mention that the old cars don't have the benefit of a lock-up TC, so a 3500+ stall would be a pain on the highway - not an issue with the lock-up TCs for a 4L60E).

Again, opinions will vary a bit on this, because perception will change from person to person.

A stall will help a lot more than just launch. People who have never had a well matched aftermarket stall don't seem to realize how benificial the increased shift extension of a higher stall is for an LS1. With a 3500+ stall, the car will accelerate much harder from a roll since the engine will be "slipped" into it's powerband faster than a stock stalled car.

This is another matter of opinion/perception, so it's hard to really say if you are right or wrong since you haven't tried it yet. Personally, a high quality ~3500 stall felt like stock to me after about a week with a 3.23 gear. It only felt slightly looser with the 2.73s, barely enough to notice the difference in gear ratios, IMO. In both cases, it was fun to drive and didn't bother me at all.

StuntmanMike

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info and great post, RPM.

You makes ome good points, and mentioned a few that I hadn't thought of.

Never having driven any LS1's other than a 2.73 geared A4 or a 3.42 geared M6, I don't have any experience with the differences between gear ratios. Also, I've never had the chance to drive a A4 with anything other than a stock stall.

I've always felt the 2.73 A4 was slow off the line at part throttle. Th first time I drove one, back in '00, I was DD'ing a 88GTA L98, with the 3.27 geared 9 bolt. I legitimately was not impressed with the LS1 car, I thought it felt sluggish compared to my GTA. I knew the L98 had a better low end, but I've also always thought the gearing had something to do with it as well. Don't get me wrong, once you got on the LS1 and brought it past 4grand, it was a beast compared to the GTA. My '00 runs close to 1.5 seconds faster than that GTA ever did, and 11mph faster as well. But driving around town, that L98 felt like a rocket. I guess we can attribute that to the great low end tq of the L98.

Anyway, you make a great point about the 1st gear downshift with the 2.73's, I was not aware of the difference there. And you are correct on launching with the 2.73's, as long as the track is prepped well and I bypass the waterbox, I can dead hook with my NT555's (non DR's). And on the street if I punch it they'll spin, but if I start off by rolling into the throttle a bit, she just hooks.

And I DO like the 2.73's on the highway. 2krpm at 80mph is nice.

I've read so many posts about how happy peole are with their 2.73 to 3.xx gear swaps, it made it sound like a very worthwhile mod.

I really want to do at least one of those two mods, I've had my car for going on 5 years now, and I need to do SOMETHING to change the character of it. Not that I'm bored with it, but some renewed joy at driving it would be great.

Maybe the converter is the place to start, and if I odn't like the feel, then I can look into gearing changes.

I'm 99.9% a street car, and DD, so I was thinking (even though it seems most people say 3600 min) a 3200 unit on the tighter side might be the way to go for me.

More research is in order.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Glad to help.

This is interesting, because I too went from an L98 to my first LS1. I had an '89 Formula 350 with the 3.27 9-bolt that I sold to buy a brand new '99 Z28 back in '99. The Z28 was a 3.23 car, and even with those gears I too thought that it felt more sluggish at normal part throttle acceleration, as compared to the L98....but at WOT, above ~3500 or so, I also noted that the LS1 felt shockingly fast compared to my old bolt-on L98. Sounds like we had similar impressions on this similar comparasion.

In terms of performance, people are usually happy with the ET reduction of a 2.73 to 3.73 swap when they still have a stock stall. But, gains from a stall alone are bigger (assuming equal traction), plus they overlap most of the gains that you would get from a gear swap, leaving very little else to be gained at the track from a 3.73 swap. Usually there is no more than about 1 tenth or so left to be gained going to 3.73s once you have a 3500+ stall.

It's hard to universally measure gains from a roll on the street, but the stall is still very competitive there as well, due to better shift extension and no lag time wating for the engine to reach the meat of it's powerband.

This is the great thing about the stall, once you get into lock-up (about 45mph), everything feels and runs exactly like stock unless you get into the throttle enough to unlock the converter. You will still turn the same rpms on the highway as before while cruising and under light thottle acceleration (while the converter stays locked).

Exactly. if you end up being one of the people that is a bit bothered by the looseness of a stall at light throttle, then as you mentioned above you can always do a gear swap to tighten up the feel from a stop.

Having said that, a lot of people seem to worry about how they may not like the "looseness" that is talked about with a stall. But usually, most people find that it's a non-issue once they've driven the car for a short while. The first few times that you accelerate feels a bit odd (not bad, just noticeably different than before), but it's more like you're slipping the clutch a bit with a manual than what it feels like when an auto trans is slipping because it's worn out. A worn/slipping auto trans usually has a very inconsistant feel to the problem, like a variable "flare" or disconnection, but with a stall this "slipping" is very consistant and predictable without the disconnected feel, much like the slip is being controlled as with a manual/clutch. The first time you go WOT through an upshift and notice how much higher the rpms stay after the upshift (this is the increased shift extension) you'll get a nice big smile on your face. It's like the car never stops pulling between the shifts, it just stays right in the heart of your powerband. And any time you punch it from a roll, even if you're at a speed where you don't get much of a downshift, the engine will rip to a much higher rpm much faster then before, and most "dead spots" will be gone or barely noticeable.

Most people think they'd be happier with something a little smaller, but then once they get used to it they wish they'd gone bigger. 3200 would still be good, definitely don't go smaller than 3000, but I'd say even a 3500-3600 is perfectly fine for a DD. 4000+ might be a bit much if you're really worried about the looseness, and if you don't plan any internal engine mods. What would be ideal is if you could find someone locally that would let you drive their car with a ~3500 or so stall.

StuntmanMike

iTrader: (2)

Oh that's funny, we had the same inital LS1 impressions! I was half expecting someone to chime in and say I was crazy....how could a 3rdgen possibly feel faster than a LS1, haha. I don't care what anyone says about the L98, for stoplight drags it's a great motor. And I remember being able to drive up and over mountain passes in NH at 45mph in OD, without ever needing a kickdown.

Anyway, once again, thanksfor the info. I've read numerous times where you've said a converter is a much more effective mod than a gear swap, so I figured this time I'd try to find out exactly why.

(To the OP, sorry to threadjack, but I feel this is relevant)

You're right about trying a stalled LS1, I wish I knew someone who had one! I might have to start searching the board, maybe I can find someone somewhat local who'd take me for a ride.

Maybe a 3400 is a good compromise, then again, how can that extra 200rpm really hurt...maybe 3600 it is, haha!

One thing I'm also wondering about is lockup.... when the converter is unlocked and I'm travelling at say 25-40mph (I spend alot of time in this range locally), once I reach that speed, it shouldn't take me much throttle to maintain that right? Meaning at that speed, it should drive much like stock, and not require me to keep the rpm's up at 3k to keep the car moving?

Also, as I spend alot of time at 25-40mph, would it be practical to have it tuned for lockup in OD to occur at say 30mph? I feel like that would take care of my driveability concers, while also minimizing the impact on my mileage.

Thanks again for the info!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I was a bit worried about the looseness as well before I did my first stall in an LS1. I did this back in 2000, so not too many people in my area had stalled LS1s yet for me to experience before going forward with it. I spent a good deal of time on the phone with Mike @ Yank, and I was originally set on getting a 3000 stall, but he told me in no uncertain terms that I would be much happier with a 3500. I was a bit leery since up to that point I had never driven a modern car with a stall that big, but he talked me into it - and as it turned out I was glad he did. The 3500 wasn't anywhere near as loose as I was worried about before hand - it felt perfectly natural to me after just a few days of driving it.

Maintaining a speed in that range should feel pretty stock-like. The area that will be most noticeably different will be accelerating off idle from a stop, but even then the car will still get moving briskly and accelerate at an acceptable rate at engine speeds well below the stall rating. Also, as you accelerate to increase speed from a constant roll state (pre-lock up), you'll note higher rpms than before while doing so, but nothing excessive with a stall in the 3000-3600 range.

Some people do have their lock-up tuned to come in early, whether or not this is a desireable thing is really another matter of opinion/perception. Personally, I wouldn't want the lock up to happen any sooner than stock, because I like fact that the engine revs/responds to throttle input sooner and in a more fluid manner at lower speeds with the TC unlocked. Just be careful not to set lock-up too early, otherwise engine speed will drop excessively low and the engine will lug/surge during cruise and/or throttle tip-in.

StuntmanMike

iTrader: (2)

Great, thanks again for the great info!

ripgtp97

iTrader: (2)

I'm doing stalls and gear too right about now and this thread has been awesome. Glad to see a long time member still actively giving excellent information!

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

You are the only person in the world that would be able to tell the different between 342s and 373s in an identical setup. That ratio is such a small difference it would be undetectable. Like comparing 342s to 323s, wouldn't ever notice it. Add a converter and nobody would be able to guess what gears were in the car.

Difference between the ratios? You can have a more reliable rear end with the same performance gains as 373s and be out 50-75$ tops... As opposed to a weaker rear and being out several hundred bucks.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I skimmed RPMs posts, as usual I agree 100%.

justin hover

Just comparing apples to oranges...can you tell the difference between a 3400 to a 3600 stall? probably not....but the 3600 will get your $ worth comparably.

Kev SS

iTrader: (5)

My old ws6 I had a 3600 stall 3.73 gears. Mickety thompson radials with ls6 intake and full exhaust and tuned. Ran AMAZING. Simple and effective.