1980 Corvette or 99 Camaro LS1???
05-10-2004, 10:58 AM
#22
Originally Posted by RevGTO
Bottom line: your dad is yanking your chain, dude, if he has any sense about cars whatsoever.
Its the guys that are going through mid life crissis's that buy these cars to feel cool, dont know how to work on em' and deffinatly dont know how to drive em. These are the vette drivers i cant stand. There's a guy in milford driving around in a brand new black z06...he's some 30 year old pencil pusher that obviously knows nothing about his car. The amt of swirls on this car makes me sick. And the way he drives around w/ his nose in the air, drives me nuts!!!
05-10-2004, 12:10 PM
#24
TECH Senior Member
As for the older guys buying 'Vettes. Let 'em have their fun. It's not hurting you. Nowhere is it writen that you have to know how to mod a car to run 9s or autocross or so much as be able to change the air filter to be a 'Vette owner. Besides, they're buying the cars new that you'll be buying used one day and taking ALOT of depreciation in the process. You should thank them. 
05-10-2004, 12:30 PM
#25
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the only time I would fear a vette before 97" is if it had a transplanted LS1 in it......and they are out there
I mean I love LS1's as much as the next guy (probably more!) but you do realize people were building performance engines before LS1's, right?
The pre-smog big block vettes could hang.
I mean, they'd get beat by an LS1 now, but remember it took almost 25 years to get back to that level of performance. And you can mod a big block, too.
And a small block!
There are more high horsepower small blocks out there than LS1's.
Bet on it.
Now, maybe you wouldn't fear any STOCK vette, but an LT1 with a good driver could hang right with your f-body only running 13.3's.
And if you keep up with that attitude, I just might have to introduce you to a 76 vette with a small block that runs 11's on street tires. With a little ole carb'd 350.
I seriously can't believe you think the only way to make an old vette fast is an LS1 swap...
05-10-2004, 01:16 PM
#27
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I have a friend with a 77 vette with a healthy cam and he's running like 14.7s...you don't have anything to fear from a stock 80 vette.
just about any vette can be made to run faster than a stock LS1.
just about any vette can be made to run faster than a stock LS1.
05-10-2004, 01:33 PM
#28
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I agree with most of you guys about your comments..except maybe the Vette Owners = Ricers comments..lol.
But one thing to keep in mind is not only did the mid 70s to late 80s Vettes have little power...ALMOST ANYTHING in that period had no power. Look at 3rd Gen F-bodies. Those things were lucky to be dipping into the 14s. But with the right things done, an older Vetter or Camaro or whatever can be made pretty fast.
My friend had a 77 Monte Carlo. When he got it, it was already built nice, with a '70 350 putting down some nice power, and a worked tranny(TH400) that threw down some serious shifts. Anyway, he ended up blowing the 350, and replaced it with a 1980 350. When the work was being done, the first thing I thought was 'Damn, 1980 sucked!!!' But then I came to my senses and remembered that it's not the block that sucks. It's the head, cam, carb, manifold, exhaust combo that will determine the power. So, he threw a lot of his old parts on the '80 block with the addition of some new stuff...and let me tell you, this thing was badass.
Point of the story is...if you dad's Vette is stock, he's in trouble. If he decides to throw a few dollars at it, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't hang with a 330hp F-bod.
Now, go beat him. And have someone with a Neon SRT-4 or some new decently powered import show up too. Your dad might laugh at first, but not after getting beat by factory rice.
But one thing to keep in mind is not only did the mid 70s to late 80s Vettes have little power...ALMOST ANYTHING in that period had no power. Look at 3rd Gen F-bodies. Those things were lucky to be dipping into the 14s. But with the right things done, an older Vetter or Camaro or whatever can be made pretty fast.
My friend had a 77 Monte Carlo. When he got it, it was already built nice, with a '70 350 putting down some nice power, and a worked tranny(TH400) that threw down some serious shifts. Anyway, he ended up blowing the 350, and replaced it with a 1980 350. When the work was being done, the first thing I thought was 'Damn, 1980 sucked!!!' But then I came to my senses and remembered that it's not the block that sucks. It's the head, cam, carb, manifold, exhaust combo that will determine the power. So, he threw a lot of his old parts on the '80 block with the addition of some new stuff...and let me tell you, this thing was badass.
Point of the story is...if you dad's Vette is stock, he's in trouble. If he decides to throw a few dollars at it, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't hang with a 330hp F-bod.
Now, go beat him. And have someone with a Neon SRT-4 or some new decently powered import show up too. Your dad might laugh at first, but not after getting beat by factory rice.
05-10-2004, 02:00 PM
#29
Originally Posted by BlackBowtie
I agree with most of you guys about your comments..except maybe the Vette Owners = Ricers comments..lol.
But one thing to keep in mind is not only did the mid 70s to late 80s Vettes have little power...ALMOST ANYTHING in that period had no power. Look at 3rd Gen F-bodies. Those things were lucky to be dipping into the 14s. But with the right things done, an older Vetter or Camaro or whatever can be made pretty fast.
My friend had a 77 Monte Carlo. When he got it, it was already built nice, with a '70 350 putting down some nice power, and a worked tranny(TH400) that threw down some serious shifts. Anyway, he ended up blowing the 350, and replaced it with a 1980 350. When the work was being done, the first thing I thought was 'Damn, 1980 sucked!!!' But then I came to my senses and remembered that it's not the block that sucks. It's the head, cam, carb, manifold, exhaust combo that will determine the power. So, he threw a lot of his old parts on the '80 block with the addition of some new stuff...and let me tell you, this thing was badass.
Point of the story is...if you dad's Vette is stock, he's in trouble. If he decides to throw a few dollars at it, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't hang with a 330hp F-bod.
Now, go beat him. And have someone with a Neon SRT-4 or some new decently powered import show up too. Your dad might laugh at first, but not after getting beat by factory rice.
But one thing to keep in mind is not only did the mid 70s to late 80s Vettes have little power...ALMOST ANYTHING in that period had no power. Look at 3rd Gen F-bodies. Those things were lucky to be dipping into the 14s. But with the right things done, an older Vetter or Camaro or whatever can be made pretty fast.
My friend had a 77 Monte Carlo. When he got it, it was already built nice, with a '70 350 putting down some nice power, and a worked tranny(TH400) that threw down some serious shifts. Anyway, he ended up blowing the 350, and replaced it with a 1980 350. When the work was being done, the first thing I thought was 'Damn, 1980 sucked!!!' But then I came to my senses and remembered that it's not the block that sucks. It's the head, cam, carb, manifold, exhaust combo that will determine the power. So, he threw a lot of his old parts on the '80 block with the addition of some new stuff...and let me tell you, this thing was badass.
Point of the story is...if you dad's Vette is stock, he's in trouble. If he decides to throw a few dollars at it, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't hang with a 330hp F-bod.
Now, go beat him. And have someone with a Neon SRT-4 or some new decently powered import show up too. Your dad might laugh at first, but not after getting beat by factory rice.
05-10-2004, 02:01 PM
#30
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I think you will beat your dad's vette 'hands down'.
But as to all the Vette 'A-Hole' talk, that is pretty common. I think many people have a belief that vette drivers are 'a-holes'.
With my experiences I would disagree. For one my unlce has a 99' Vette that he cherishes and is an automotive engineer and just appreciates the heritage and what goes into it. Then I have a buudy that has a 74' vette with the turbo 400 tranny and modified 454 that can't keep the tires to the ground. He just fish tailed it at 80 mph yesterday on new Good Years. And, 3 weeks ago I raced a 2000 C5 and even though I beat the guy twice from a 45-50 roll he was very cool.
There are A$$ holes in every crowd.
Try to no put everyone in that group.
But as to all the Vette 'A-Hole' talk, that is pretty common. I think many people have a belief that vette drivers are 'a-holes'.
With my experiences I would disagree. For one my unlce has a 99' Vette that he cherishes and is an automotive engineer and just appreciates the heritage and what goes into it. Then I have a buudy that has a 74' vette with the turbo 400 tranny and modified 454 that can't keep the tires to the ground. He just fish tailed it at 80 mph yesterday on new Good Years. And, 3 weeks ago I raced a 2000 C5 and even though I beat the guy twice from a 45-50 roll he was very cool.
There are A$$ holes in every crowd.
Try to no put everyone in that group.
05-10-2004, 02:15 PM
#31
Originally Posted by ActionJack
I think you will beat your dad's vette 'hands down'.
But as to all the Vette 'A-Hole' talk, that is pretty common. I think many people have a belief that vette drivers are 'a-holes'.
With my experiences I would disagree. For one my unlce has a 99' Vette that he cherishes and is an automotive engineer and just appreciates the heritage and what goes into it. Then I have a buudy that has a 74' vette with the turbo 400 tranny and modified 454 that can't keep the tires to the ground. He just fish tailed it at 80 mph yesterday on new Good Years. And, 3 weeks ago I raced a 2000 C5 and even though I beat the guy twice from a 45-50 roll he was very cool.
There are A$$ holes in every crowd.
Try to no put everyone in that group.
But as to all the Vette 'A-Hole' talk, that is pretty common. I think many people have a belief that vette drivers are 'a-holes'.
With my experiences I would disagree. For one my unlce has a 99' Vette that he cherishes and is an automotive engineer and just appreciates the heritage and what goes into it. Then I have a buudy that has a 74' vette with the turbo 400 tranny and modified 454 that can't keep the tires to the ground. He just fish tailed it at 80 mph yesterday on new Good Years. And, 3 weeks ago I raced a 2000 C5 and even though I beat the guy twice from a 45-50 roll he was very cool.
There are A$$ holes in every crowd.
Try to no put everyone in that group.
05-11-2004, 10:01 AM
#33
Originally Posted by Colonel
"I like Corvette's, but I hate the owners. They are like ricers."
Careful with the brainless generalizations. You're calling ME a ricer ya 'tard.
Careful with the brainless generalizations. You're calling ME a ricer ya 'tard.
Around this area, there aren't any "performance" Corvette enthusiasts. A lot of the people have mid 70's to mid 80's cars which you all know were less than steallar. These people think they have the fastest cars around though, just because it is a Corvette. They haven't done a single thing to their cars except change the oil, yet they are incredibly rude, arrogant, and stuck up around every other car and the owner of the car at a car show, cruise in, or even at the parts store.
Several times I've run into these fools on the street. A lot won't even look over at me at the light because I'm in the "inferior" Camaro. Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of).
So when I say Corvette owners are just like ricers, you guys should know the ones I'm refering to. The ones that think "Well, my C5 is rated at 350 horse, and a Z28 is only 310, so I'm soooo much faster." Or the guys over at corvetteforums.com who are worked up about which center piece to buy to go between their exhaust tips.
Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox...
05-11-2004, 10:03 AM
#34
Originally Posted by FutureFbodowner
I know a guy witha 82 Vette and it is slower than ****. I know you could beat him if your car was stock. I love vettes too except those years. There ugly and slow.
They had a tendincy to catch on fire or something.
05-11-2004, 10:09 AM
#35
Originally Posted by DMNSPD
ok, ok... I didn't mean EVERY owner
Around this area, there aren't any "performance" Corvette enthusiasts. A lot of the people have mid 70's to mid 80's cars which you all know were less than steallar. These people think they have the fastest cars around though, just because it is a Corvette. They haven't done a single thing to their cars except change the oil, yet they are incredibly rude, arrogant, and stuck up around every other car and the owner of the car at a car show, cruise in, or even at the parts store.
Several times I've run into these fools on the street. A lot won't even look over at me at the light because I'm in the "inferior" Camaro. Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of).
So when I say Corvette owners are just like ricers, you guys should know the ones I'm refering to. The ones that think "Well, my C5 is rated at 350 horse, and a Z28 is only 310, so I'm soooo much faster." Or the guys over at corvetteforums.com who are worked up about which center piece to buy to go between their exhaust tips.
Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox...
Around this area, there aren't any "performance" Corvette enthusiasts. A lot of the people have mid 70's to mid 80's cars which you all know were less than steallar. These people think they have the fastest cars around though, just because it is a Corvette. They haven't done a single thing to their cars except change the oil, yet they are incredibly rude, arrogant, and stuck up around every other car and the owner of the car at a car show, cruise in, or even at the parts store.
Several times I've run into these fools on the street. A lot won't even look over at me at the light because I'm in the "inferior" Camaro. Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of).
So when I say Corvette owners are just like ricers, you guys should know the ones I'm refering to. The ones that think "Well, my C5 is rated at 350 horse, and a Z28 is only 310, so I'm soooo much faster." Or the guys over at corvetteforums.com who are worked up about which center piece to buy to go between their exhaust tips.
Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox...
05-12-2004, 12:31 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by DMNSPD
ok, ok... I didn't mean EVERY owner
Around this area, there aren't any "performance" Corvette enthusiasts. A lot of the people have mid 70's to mid 80's cars which you all know were less than steallar. These people think they have the fastest cars around though, just because it is a Corvette. They haven't done a single thing to their cars except change the oil, yet they are incredibly rude, arrogant, and stuck up around every other car and the owner of the car at a car show, cruise in, or even at the parts store.
Several times I've run into these fools on the street. A lot won't even look over at me at the light because I'm in the "inferior" Camaro. Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of).
So when I say Corvette owners are just like ricers, you guys should know the ones I'm refering to. The ones that think "Well, my C5 is rated at 350 horse, and a Z28 is only 310, so I'm soooo much faster." Or the guys over at corvetteforums.com who are worked up about which center piece to buy to go between their exhaust tips.
Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox...
Around this area, there aren't any "performance" Corvette enthusiasts. A lot of the people have mid 70's to mid 80's cars which you all know were less than steallar. These people think they have the fastest cars around though, just because it is a Corvette. They haven't done a single thing to their cars except change the oil, yet they are incredibly rude, arrogant, and stuck up around every other car and the owner of the car at a car show, cruise in, or even at the parts store.
Several times I've run into these fools on the street. A lot won't even look over at me at the light because I'm in the "inferior" Camaro. Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of).
So when I say Corvette owners are just like ricers, you guys should know the ones I'm refering to. The ones that think "Well, my C5 is rated at 350 horse, and a Z28 is only 310, so I'm soooo much faster." Or the guys over at corvetteforums.com who are worked up about which center piece to buy to go between their exhaust tips.
Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox...
"Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of)."
I beg to differ, but before you cal me a Corvette elitest or ***, here me out. I have owned both over the years, Camaros - 67 RS, 71, 96,97 Z-28 ,99 SS and Corvettes - 69 conv, 72 conv, 03 coupe, 69 coupe, 04 Z06. So I think I can say that I have a biast opinion, agreed? A step above in several aspects isn't exaclty true. First the Corvettes have had IRS since 63 (before the first Camaro was even built), in fact my 69 has 4 wheel disc, IRS, TRUE dual exhaust, head light washers, etc. Advanced stuff for it's day.
Now fast forward and look at the new Corvette. Things it has that a Camaro doesn't - HUD, tire pressure sensors, run flats, true dual exhaust, yaw sensor, g-force sensors, active handling, IRS, and dual wishbone suspension front and rear, solid chassis (not a bolt on chassis to body, f-body), etc. There are too many things too list everything, but you get the idea. A Camaro is a great car, but the Corvette is a all around sports car for handling, braking and acceleration where the engineering has spared no expense to create the most bang for buck car.
And the statement that the exception is the ZR1 and Z06, which isn't something some mods won't take care of, well....LOL....I used to think that too. I had a 99 SS (6 speed)with all of the bolt ons and a C1 cam, LS6 intake, computer reprogram, etc. and it dynoed 370 rwhp / 365 rwtrq which is respectable for what I did to it. A stock Z06 dynos around 357 rwhp / 342 rwtrq , but they only weigh around 3,080 lbs and the 6 speed is geared lower in first thru third, which ends up being the equivalent to having a 390 rear end gear! My buddy with a stock Z06 beat my car and even some head/cam f-bodies with his stock Z06! So your "some mods" statement should be "with a lot of mods or a big shot of nitrous"...LOL!
I have seen stock Z06s run low 12s and with slicks a 11.8 here in Houston. So don't kid yourself. I used to think like that and now I have a Z06 becasue I know better, wait until I do the same mods I did to the 99 SS to this car! It's going to be scary.
Dean
05-12-2004, 04:38 PM
#37
Originally Posted by 69Vette03
"Sure, a Corvette is a step above the Camaro in several aspects, but when it comes to going fast, they've been on par since the 87, (minus the ZR1 and Z06 - which isn't something some mods won't take care of)."
I beg to differ, but before you cal me a Corvette elitest or ***, here me out. I have owned both over the years, Camaros - 67 RS, 71, 96,97 Z-28 ,99 SS and Corvettes - 69 conv, 72 conv, 03 coupe, 69 coupe, 04 Z06. So I think I can say that I have a biast opinion, agreed? A step above in several aspects isn't exaclty true. First the Corvettes have had IRS since 63 (before the first Camaro was even built), in fact my 69 has 4 wheel disc, IRS, TRUE dual exhaust, head light washers, etc. Advanced stuff for it's day.
Now fast forward and look at the new Corvette. Things it has that a Camaro doesn't - HUD, tire pressure sensors, run flats, true dual exhaust, yaw sensor, g-force sensors, active handling, IRS, and dual wishbone suspension front and rear, solid chassis (not a bolt on chassis to body, f-body), etc. There are too many things too list everything, but you get the idea. A Camaro is a great car, but the Corvette is a all around sports car for handling, braking and acceleration where the engineering has spared no expense to create the most bang for buck car.
And the statement that the exception is the ZR1 and Z06, which isn't something some mods won't take care of, well....LOL....I used to think that too. I had a 99 SS (6 speed)with all of the bolt ons and a C1 cam, LS6 intake, computer reprogram, etc. and it dynoed 370 rwhp / 365 rwtrq which is respectable for what I did to it. A stock Z06 dynos around 357 rwhp / 342 rwtrq , but they only weigh around 3,080 lbs and the 6 speed is geared lower in first thru third, which ends up being the equivalent to having a 390 rear end gear! My buddy with a stock Z06 beat my car and even some head/cam f-bodies with his stock Z06! So your "some mods" statement should be "with a lot of mods or a big shot of nitrous"...LOL!
I have seen stock Z06s run low 12s and with slicks a 11.8 here in Houston. So don't kid yourself. I used to think like that and now I have a Z06 becasue I know better, wait until I do the same mods I did to the 99 SS to this car! It's going to be scary.
Dean
I beg to differ, but before you cal me a Corvette elitest or ***, here me out. I have owned both over the years, Camaros - 67 RS, 71, 96,97 Z-28 ,99 SS and Corvettes - 69 conv, 72 conv, 03 coupe, 69 coupe, 04 Z06. So I think I can say that I have a biast opinion, agreed? A step above in several aspects isn't exaclty true. First the Corvettes have had IRS since 63 (before the first Camaro was even built), in fact my 69 has 4 wheel disc, IRS, TRUE dual exhaust, head light washers, etc. Advanced stuff for it's day.
Now fast forward and look at the new Corvette. Things it has that a Camaro doesn't - HUD, tire pressure sensors, run flats, true dual exhaust, yaw sensor, g-force sensors, active handling, IRS, and dual wishbone suspension front and rear, solid chassis (not a bolt on chassis to body, f-body), etc. There are too many things too list everything, but you get the idea. A Camaro is a great car, but the Corvette is a all around sports car for handling, braking and acceleration where the engineering has spared no expense to create the most bang for buck car.
And the statement that the exception is the ZR1 and Z06, which isn't something some mods won't take care of, well....LOL....I used to think that too. I had a 99 SS (6 speed)with all of the bolt ons and a C1 cam, LS6 intake, computer reprogram, etc. and it dynoed 370 rwhp / 365 rwtrq which is respectable for what I did to it. A stock Z06 dynos around 357 rwhp / 342 rwtrq , but they only weigh around 3,080 lbs and the 6 speed is geared lower in first thru third, which ends up being the equivalent to having a 390 rear end gear! My buddy with a stock Z06 beat my car and even some head/cam f-bodies with his stock Z06! So your "some mods" statement should be "with a lot of mods or a big shot of nitrous"...LOL!
I have seen stock Z06s run low 12s and with slicks a 11.8 here in Houston. So don't kid yourself. I used to think like that and now I have a Z06 becasue I know better, wait until I do the same mods I did to the 99 SS to this car! It's going to be scary.
Dean
I would say the Corvette wasn't meant to be a 1/4 mile terror, but many people think it's just that - a car that is unstoppable in any form of motorsports. That is the ignorance of Corvette owners that I refer to.
You also added that it will take much more than some bolt ons to hang with a Z06. You are a member of this website. You know there are plenty of people who are putting down 400+ rwhp on stock heads. There is a kid here who has a 00 T/A with a 224 cam, long tubes, gmmg, and tuning from Vette Doctors that has ran a best of 12.4 @ 114. That's not "a lot" of work to me.
05-12-2004, 04:54 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by DMNSPD
That was the 'sweet' cross fire injection. Look out for those They had a tendincy to catch on fire or something.
They had a tendincy to catch on fire or something.
LOL just messing with ya. But I plan to modify my CFI and surprise a ton of unsuspecting people with it.
05-12-2004, 05:56 PM
#39
TECH Senior Member
"and the TPI Vettes could be had with a stick, whereas the f-body's were stuck with the 700R4."
Actually, you COULD get a stick with TPI...just not the 350. A 305 with a stick was not uncommon at all back in those days (a buddy of mine had an IROC.) It and a TPI/350 auto were a REALLY close race with the winner decided by the prowess of the stick operator.
Actually, you COULD get a stick with TPI...just not the 350. A 305 with a stick was not uncommon at all back in those days (a buddy of mine had an IROC.) It and a TPI/350 auto were a REALLY close race with the winner decided by the prowess of the stick operator.
05-12-2004, 06:00 PM
#40
TECH Fanatic
I've owned several C4's including a ZR1. TPI Corvettes were faster than 5.7L TPI Irocs. The LT1 vettes were faster than the LT1 camaros. It wasn't until the LS1 hit that things seemed to even up a little. And everyone seems to forget about the wonderful LT4.