do the motor mounts otherwise the y pipe will bang against the floor.
The borla catback wont make a difference the only issue may be that it may be too short, there are easy work-arounds autozone has cheap replacement pipe sections.

Seriously though, this is a simple install why are you still trying to have a shop do it? They are going to charge you out the ***. Im a big advocate of if you can do it yourself save the money and in this case we are talking about a decent amount of cash and a fairly simple install. On the plus side you gain experience so if you ever have to do something that involves its removal you know what to do and don't have to take it to the shop and pay out the *** again.

 

If I had somebody that knew what they were doing, and a lift, I wouldn't mind picking up some beer and making it a weekend. This is my ride to work, though, and I've never done any kind of exhaust work. (I don't count unbolting my muffler.)

 

Hell, if I even had a lift I *might* consider it. lol

 

I have long tubes on a 2000 TA at stock ride height and have 4.5" of header clearance from the ground. I mainly only worry about speed bumps.

 

Where do you live?

The trick is to jack the car up as high as it will go and put the stands underneath it. Then you put the headers where the single pipe (where the collectors meet) facing the ground. So the single pipe is pretty much standing on end (straight up) while the manifold part is up towards the engine, and they literally slide right in. I've read where people have issues and have to take the motor mount out or take the alternator out and you don't need to do any of that. You'll literally push them right up in there as long as the car is high enough. Just soak your manifold bolts with liquid wrench or something a couple times over a few hour span so you can get them out easier.

 

Do I need "O2" extensions if I'm tuning them out? Also, is there a good write up on EGR and A.I.R. delete? Sorry for all the newbie questions. I want to make sure I understand everything I'm doing *before* dropping the money. lol

 

I might attempt the pipes with a buddy, but the motor mount thing looks way out of my skill level....

 

Nothing to feel bad about, you're curious and asking.

Somebody correct me, but can't he use some Crovette O2's instead of extensions? I've just forgotten.

 

OP

there are multiple routes for you to take based on what you've mentioned so far, this will be long but not to put myself on a pedestal this is fairly sound advice that ive given before.

O2 sensors, this site has all the write-ups and how-to's you need in this area, done thousands of times and plenty of advice. The most common way is to purchase brand new bosch corvette sensors and use them, and just zip-tie the plugs and provisions for the rear o2's. This method gives you brand new sensors with more than enough cable to reach the front o2 bungs which are the important ones. This method will cost you 70 bucks a sensor and you will have an SES light on the dash that literally means nothing other than your car telling you that the rear o2's are gone. Its fine unless you live in an evil emissions testing state, but seeing as how you want Longtubes im going to assume that you don't. You could always get bungs welded and hookup the rear o2's but its utterly pointless unless the above mentioned scenario. The second method is if your stock o2 sensors are still good, OR you want to purchase some stock o2's for a cheaper price than the corvette sensors, you use these but will have to re-pin the PCM. Now take a breather, it sounds daunting im sure but its no biggie at all. Basically you would be taking your stock sensors or new purchased stock sensor and plug it into the rear o2 sensor harness, but plug the sensor into the header bung. Then you will move to the PCM and gently remove a few pins and swap them, essentially fooling your car to thinking the rear o2's are the fronts and vice-versa. Its very simple and is done in a matter of minuetes and like everything ls1, theres a write up here.

Now moving on to a self-install VS shop install. Right away im going to ballpark you what I think youll pay for the install, $300-400, And I feel im on the low side. No main-stream repair shop is going to mess with re-pinning your PCM so you will need to buy corvette o2's, so add 140. Unless you are going to some LS1-specific performance shop but again granted the advice you were given, probably not. So lets lowball shoot for the 440 dollar range already. That's the price of a good pair of LT's as it is. Not to mention youll want spark plugs done at the same time which im positive most repair shops will charge you for even though they are literally right there as they do headers. I promise you if you watch them from start to finish youd sit there and say I could have done that. The biggest advantage they have on you is the lift and that's really it. Now for a self install, the key here is height and patience. You say you've unbolted your muffler well, im confident you can do this then lol. Heres a shortened summary of what I did a few months ago when I did my entire exhaust swap from the stock setup in my garage and by myself, granted I have knowledge in this but honestly I don't think it helps a hell of a lot. Drove the car up on rhino ramps, started from the back and since I didn't care about my stocker exhaust I took a sawzall and a dremel and a few min later my catback was out and I was up the the y pipe. Removed the tunnel brace, now listen up because this is actually helpful, If you plan on re-using your O2 sensors then remove them BEFORE you cut the pipe put, you want the leverage of the pipe staying still to break the torque, if not then stick your hand up there and curse as you fumble with the little blue pin for 5 min until the connector pops out of all 4. remove the Y, spray the crap out of the CAT bolts and then break em loose and turn them slowly. Watch your eyes crap will fall out when you go to drop em. Now go back up top, remove your oil dipstick tube and its bracket, unplug your spark plugs, remove the ignition wires, ** bonus step pain in the *** but worth it, remove passenger side ignition coils ( if you have a 98 like me you can cheat and remove just the first coil as they are individually mounted and this isn't a PITA then)**, now its time for the exhaust headers, slowly break the torque and remove the bolts, some cars they come out smooth as butter, some will require some attention and patience. With the bolts out you will drop the manifolds out through the bottom. At this time replace your spark plugs, trust me there no better time. IF doing motor mounts then that's another story and I leave that to you but I will assume your not doing it. At this point its time to put everything back in, Jack the car as high as you can get it to go and jack near the engine as safe as possible. The headers then slide up from underneath and have your friend grab it up top and while you support it he will guide the gasket and header to its home and thread 2 bolts to keep it there. Repeat on both sides and get em tight but not super tight then move on, bolt your y pipe up with the same practice, tight enough to stay but loose enough to flex, the attach your catback building it from the y pipe-back. tighten everything after final adjustments are made and fitment is good and then torque. Install O2 sensors based on your pre-determined choice, and re-install your ignition wires and coils. DONT FORGET THE DIPSTICK. this will take some patience but if I can get it by myself the you can get it with a friend. It may require a friend to be under the car helping to guide it into the pan, it goes in a long ways and will fight you but be patient. check and triple check over everything then start her up. Pro-tip place hardware as its removed in zip-lock bags and label the bag whats in it then set aside so theres less clutter and bolts on the floor.

As far as EGR/AIR, there are write ups, understand that with or without the deletion of rear o2's this will set a code anyway, and your SES light will be on until tuned out. This is extremely simple and you will only need an ls1 EGR block off kit, for your intake manifold only, the vast majority of headers for LS1's do not come with EGR provisions anyway. this is found on amazon cheap as hell. Take your time and the EGR and AIR is easy to remove, then pull the fuse for the AIR pump if you decide to do the lazy install and not fully remove the pump. You will need a black off for your air lid as well depending on what your LID setup is.

A heads up some repair shops may not remove your EGR and AIR as is going to be needed with a header install as EGR and AIR are emission control devices and some laws prohibit the removal of these. In the end its all up to you, take into account all your factors though I don't want you to be stuck without a ride to work. Good luck man.

 

Here's the extensions if you decide to keep your stock o2 sensors. I would personally use your oem ones and save your rears incase you ever have a problem with your fronts. I've seen a lot of people throw their backs into their fronts when the fronts went bad, including myself and my kid, with zero issues.
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...sor-extension/

Edit: I cannot stress enough, how much you need to put your headers in where they are facing almost straight up and down (especially the drivers side) for them to slide right in. Then you just turn them 90 degrees from the position you slid them up through there, right into place and blot them in. I know it doesn't seem very important, but depending on the header, it could save you a lot of headache. If you are having to fight to get it in, then you don't have the car in the air high enough or you don't have them turned straight up enough to slide in. It's honestly not as hard as what you think it is and you'll see what we're saying once you get in there. But soak your manifold bolts a couple of times before you do this. The last thing you want to do is break a manifold bolt off in your heads.

 

good point forgot to mention this. I just bit the bullet and went with new sensors every time I did headers, old sensors with a sudden increase in heat and volume of the Long tubes seemed to burn them out shortly after, but it was 50/50 it seemed. depends on the mileage of the sensors.

 

I really appreciate all of that usnfenix and Deeohgie69. I might remove my EGR and AIR before I even do the header work, so I realize I'd have to do all the block offs on the manifold too. The EGR looks pretty simple (just a plug, a few screws, and two spots to block off, right? And the tune is just for the light, my performance and timing should remain unaffected by it [and the A.I.R.s] deletion, correct?)

I can't find a lot of information about the A.I.R. though, and it's kind of hard to see back there (since this hood doesn't open Corvette style.)





Is that rusty tube going into the black doohickey the A.I.R.? My guess was based on the fact that it's the only other thing I could see attached to the manifold.

To clarify for my sanity, when you guys keep talking about O2s, are you saying just to use my stock front motor ones up near the stock front motor with extensions, and, as you said, zip-tie the farther rear ones (and then have them tuned out?) I imagine there is no place for the rears since there are no longer cats on the LT and ORY. Makes sense... Or do I *have* to buy Corvette O2 wires for the front? (Or the re-pin thing.) Or can I not use my front O2 sensors for the front anymore?, and I have to use rear as a front/repinned or get the Corvette ones? I'm slightly confused, and I know this is really simple

Thanks for being so patient with me through all of this.

EDIT: OK, the A.I.R. seems pretty easy. I've been *** deep in that panel to replace the same blinker bulb twice now (lightning capital of the world, baby.) Seems pretty straight forward. I'm still slightly disoriented about the O2 thing, and my options. Why can't I just use my front for my front and tie up my rear?

 

You CAN do just that but you will need extensions. The bung for O2's on longtube headers is significantly farther back from where they are from the factory. That's the only thing that is different. And that's why it's either extensions or Corvette sensors. Corvette sensors have longer wires and will reach without extensions. Extensions have been known to cause issues. But lots of people have used them. The advantage of the vette sensor is that it is a NEW, FACTORY unit that does not require modification.

 

which is why I always advise using them in place of other methods. Traditional car law states if you replace one part of a system but not the other the new weak link will fail.

 

This makes a lot of sense. I know it's another added cost but you're buying peace of mind and not risking going nuts trying to fix a problem after you install something, which often ends up costing more in the long run. A saying I am fond of......

There is often not enough time and money to do it right the first time, always enough of both the second time.

 

Zero problems here with the extensions for almost 2 years and zero with my kids car for a little over a year so far.

If you have the money to spend on them, then why not i guess. But if you don't, then buy the extensions. I had the money but I just didn't want to spend that much on them.

 

I might just drop it for the Corvette sensors. We'll see. First I have to get my wife to approve all this money, hahaha. I'm gonna start with the emissions deletions to get ready for the pipes.

Hey, I read that it's dangerous to delete the EGR without a larger cam, and that I could blow my engine up. I've never heard of anyone destroying their LS1 because they didn't have EGR so I wanted to double check with you guys that it was bogus information. I know the LS6 intake doesn't have one anyway, although the stock models with that have a slightly different cam right?

By the way, you guys have been a huge help, I actually have a grasp on what's going on now. I'd buy the three of you a beer if I could.

 

We accept PayPal for beer. Just kidding

You won't have any issues with taking your egr stuff off. Thousands of people have done this without issues. You will have to have your car tuned for sure before it will pass emissions. Your state doesn't do visual inspections does it?

 

which is why I said its 50/50, besides did you buy extensions and re-use old sensors or buy extensions then buy factory sensors? Personally I wouldn't re-use the old sensors, like the other guy said its just another thing that can (and from what ive seen, will) go wrong.



100% BS, who is giving you these bad facts lol? First the ground clearance and now EGR blowing up cars. Ignore whoever is telling you this stuff and check here for all things LSX. Ive had 4 f bodies all of them EGR deleted, never a problem. Think of it this way if its a big deal without it why did the 00 and up cars not have it from the factory without any major difference in engine other than the manifold change? 98-99 cam specs are not far off from 00-02. the difference is minimal at best.

 

Both mine and my kids car still have the oem ones that came in our cars. You can reuse the rears in the fronts if you need one later. You also have to consider that these o2 sensors will eventually need replaced anyways. So you can't really say that it was because of the extensions, because they are just giving signal. It's a mix of being old already and long tubes/new location of them.

I don't see anything wrong with buying them new like you posted. I just wanted him to know that he doesn't have to go that route and can wait until his actually need replacing. $20 vs $140 to me just wasn't justified since mine were still good. With two extras from the rears, it just worked out better for me.

They will eventually need replaced, so you can bite the bullet and do them now, or buy extensions and do it when they eventually go out as normal maintenance on your vehicle.