dannyz

He didn't mention cornering, but even so, the MT/ET SS drag radial is a steel belted radial tire that is perfectly fine for a dd.
I have had several sets over the years and only switched to Hoosier QTP.s because they were much better for no prep.

But I do retract my suggestion of a nitrous system.
A stock tranny with a 150 shot will not last.

Y2K_Frenzy

He said it’s not a race car so I assumed he’d be making turns on occasion. If it was a street/strip car I’d recommend a spare set of rear wheels with some QTP’s mounted on them so he could put them on when he goes the strip.

dannyz

o

Yes, I am pretty sure you are right about his having to make turns fairly often since it is a street car.
And for any conceivable turn he would be taking during normal driving the MT's are more then adequate.

With the tq converter, tune and above mentioned DR's, he will be able to run respectable times at the strip and more then hold his own against late model Camaro's, Mustangs and those pesky Dodge built cars in a stoplight to stoplight contest.

Tommy42088

My truck is on mickey Thompson et street R radials and it drives perfectly fine on the steet. Doesn't like the rain to much but besides that perfectly fine for the street.

dannyz

Yes.
I had a set of those when they first came out.
Decent tire.
Like QTP's though, when ir rains stay under 40mph.

Y2K_Frenzy

A 13 second car that is only “adequate” going around corners doesn’t sound too fun to me in the year of 2024. Why set up a relatively “slow” street car (by today’s standards) to only excel at sixty foot times? “I have a car that runs a 13.0 in 1/4 mile if I launch the sht out if it and it’s cornering ability is subpar.” Sounds like a tough sell when you say it like that.

“With the tq converter, tune and above mentioned DR's, he will be able to run respectable times at the strip and more then hold his own against late model Camaro's, Mustangs and those pesky Dodge built cars in a stoplight to stoplight contest.”

At the drag strip it might hold its own if he gets a good launch and the other guy doesn’t. But on the street I still think it’s going to be a spanking if he’s going up against a car that’s making 100 or so more horsepower than he is. Even if the other car is heavier. He’s not going to be able to launch it at a stoplight the same way he could at a race track so the sticky tire and high rpm launch advantage are kind of out the window. So you’re left with a car that runs low 13 to high 12 second 1/4 miles with a “good launch” racing a car that can run a mid 12 second 1/4 mile with a “crappy launch.”

Y2K_Frenzy

Would they do pretty good on a twisty backroad doing above average speeds? If so, maybe a bias ply for the win.

dannyz

You sound like you have had very little experience in what actually occurs in racing from a dig.
In a nutshell, here it is.
In a race, a car with more hp and approx. the same weight as an f-body will always win given they have the same type street tires/susp.
But hp needs time and distance to .make a difference
The scenario-two cars launch from a dig. One car has 50hp more then the other. Everything else is the same.
The car with 50 more hp should be approximately 5 car lengths ahead at the end of the 1/4.
But it took 12 and a half seconds to get that distance
If you can shave a .10 (a tenth) off of your launch, (60 ft) you will see a .2 tenths off of your 1/4 time.
This has been proven time and time again.
There is no denying it.
A good converter/tire combo will almost always shave .7 to a full second off of an f-body's 1/4 mile time.
This also has been proven time and time again.
So now that opponent, despite having 50hp more, is crossing the finish line by as much as a full 5 tenths, roughly 5 car lengths behind the f-body.
This difference will be even more apparent on the street, where distances are usually much shorter and the higher hp car does not have the same time and distance to work.
A good converter and tire combo will have excellent traction on the street until you are around 500 +hp to the wheels.
You don't have to believe me though.
Take some time and do some searching on these forums and you will find out in short order that I am far from the only one talking about this.

And as far as cornering, the drag radial is just fine for spirited cornering at least as well as the factory stock tire's.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Mostly agree with the above ^. I get a good dig with Mickeys on the street. I don't go full WOT at the light but a good stab at the throttle and then quickly to WOT gives me a jump forward that makes it hard for the other guy to catch - unless he cuts a really good stoplight.

As for cornering on Mickeys:

• Upside - they are very sticky and make for great traction.
• Downside - the sidewalls are pliable and tend to wallow in the turns.
• Solution - Amp up the tire pressure if you think you'll be out doing some cornering with your Mickey's on.

Y2K_Frenzy

Should he carry a tub of water around so he can pour it on the ground a few feet before the red light so he can do a burnout first?
I haven’t been to the track since 2017 or so but when I used to go I would go in a car that was making 334 rear wheel horsepower and weighed somewhere around 3,500lbs. In 2017 a 3,500lb car making 334 rear horsepower was almost always the slowest car at the track by a fairly good margin. I would trap around 80 mph and the next slowest street car, which would’ve been the new/newer STOCK/STOCK’ish Camaros and Mustangs were doing closer to 90 mph or a little more. Most of them were on street tires getting crappy launches. If I would’ve had a set I’d slicks I could’ve ran a better time but I probably still would’ve been the slowest one there. Y’all are selling him a dream by telling him that a 330 rear horsepower car (headers & tune) with a high RPM launch is all that he’ll need to competitiv. To sum it up with drag radials, headers, stall, & tune his car will still be slow as dog sht and he won’t be able to drive in the rain. Maybe not dog sht slow, but ‘05 Mustang GT or 2022 Kia slow and there aren’t many of those around to race.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I know we've discussed this before, but I think that folks who weren't in this "scene" in the early 2000s just don't understand what a bolt-on LS1 4th gen is capable of.

The combo you just described (DRs, headers/stall/tune) can certainly get you into the low to mid (depending on various details) 12 second range, assuming a top shelf converter with optimal stall speed (to put this into further perspective, in my '00 car I was running 12.6x with just a 3500 stall, catback/air lid, and drag radials...I didn't even have headers at that point.) It certainly won't trap as high as a newer Camaro SS, etc., but that's not necessarily going to lead to a devastating loss unless you're starting from a higher speed roll. Since the conversation here was about stop light racing, I don't see how a mid-low 12 second 4th gen wouldn't at least be somewhat competitive with a stock newer Camaro SS or the like.

No need for a huge smokey burnout either. Even back in the "dark ages" of drag radials (i.e. 20+ years ago), the BFG DRs that I had could still grip quite nicely with no burnout at all, as long as it was warm out and I had driven on them for a bit. Granted, for a max effort launch they needed to be heated up a bit, but with a little more finesse of the throttle it would launch pretty damn hard on the street even without the burnout. Modern DRs can do this plus more (meaning handle better than those old bias ply versions).

I do agree that without a 3500+ stall speed it would take a ton more power to be competitive with the newest base V8 Camaros, but as long as one is willing to optimize stall speed and do a few bolt-ons, you aren't going to get "destroyed" unless we're talking about a highway roll race or something like this.

FWIW, I think this also might be coloring your opinion:

My '00 WS6, which weighed about the same as your example above, was making about 30 less RWHP and trapping about 4-5mph higher in the 1/8 mile (usually 84-85mph) when I had only a 3500 stall speed and an air lid/catback. With the power and weight you've listed above, an LS1 F-body would certainly be trapping well over 80mph, probably closer to 90mph unless the shift points were off or there was some sort of tuning or transmission issue.

With all of this said, I do realize that these cars are older now and could have had questionable maintenance, tons of hard miles, etc., perhaps no longer running their best, so we certainly can't account for such variables in these discussions. But I can tell you first hand what they are able to do when healthy, even without cracking into the engine or getting crazy with weight reduction and such. Mid-low 12s is NO PROBLEM for a healthy LS1 F-body even with a stock short block and stock-ish weight.

Tommy42088

What tracks do you guys go to where a 12 second pass is competitive? Our local tracks must be very different from you guys. If your not running low 10's or better at our tracks then you most likely won't even find a race. My truck should be in the 10's now with the setup changes I've made and I still will have trouble finding a race. These guys are pulling up and changing there tires and going out there and making 9 second passes all day, many of them in the 8's. I'd like to visit some of these tracks though, Maybe I could find a little more even competition

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I thought this conversation was about impromptu stop light runs between two street cars? The track references (at least on my part) were just evidence of what sort of times were possible with certain parts on a 4th gen. I wouldn't expect a 12 second pass to be competitive at a track these days, but mid-low 12s is still going to put you in the realm of newer/newish, stock, base muscle car V8 offerings that might happen to be roaming the same streets.

If we are moving on to, "what it takes to be competitive at the track in 2024", well, that's a very different conversation.

Y2K_Frenzy

I think those that were in the scene 20 years ago are looking back with rose colored glasses. Back when they were the king of the hill and every little upgrade was just icing on the cake. I say this because today you’ll still “hear” how a part that adds 10-20 horsepower will “really wake it up.” That goes back to the whole “icing on the cake” twenty years ago. Back when a bunch of cars were still running 14+ second miles and the LS1 cars were “fast” with their 13’s. With fifteen extra horses on tap you could really leave those 14 second cars behind. So that $1,500 seemed like good money spent. You’re ding-dong got EVEN BIGGER if you would. Stock 2018’s Mustang GT’s and Camaros run low 8’s at 90-95 mph in the 1/8. If we use your WS6 as an example that’s a quite a bit of money spent especially at todays prices to still have a small one. I guarantee you that even though it was faster than before you’d still have been bummed to still be the slowest car at the track after spending all that money. I’ve been that guy and that’s where my opinion is based from. I agree that tires can be a game changer. If we use my 334 horse car for example my e/t’s and probably mph too would’ve been more on par with the power that I was making. At the time it had first gen Nitto NT555’s (street tire) and they were pretty horrible. I never could get a good launch. The torque hit came on around 3k and it was fairly abrupt. I’d have to leave just off of idle and sort of drive out of the hole and once I got moving I’d get on it. If I left at say 2k it would spin through 3rd gear without much forward momentum if I didn’t let off. My highest trap was 83 mph and I was running high 8’s with a second two second 60’.
A set of tires and a good driver would’ve made a better showing but I still don’t think it would’ve been enough to hang with the average driver in 400+ rear horse crowd which most everyone was whether they were stock or not. Low 8’s and high 7’s were the norm the bulk of the street cars that would show up to the test and tunes. There was seldom another high to mid 8 second (or slower) car at the track back when I was going five years ago or so. Maybe I’m the only one who thinks it’s less than fun being the slowest but I bet not since there aren’t many stock F body’s left. It seems like the bulk of the surviving 4th gens have since joined the 400+ rear horsepower club or are aspiring to. As far as the drag radials go I’d still probably take a pass unless he really wants to focus on his 60’ time.

Tommy42088

ah ok I got ya, most of the new cars running around town here usually are modified as well so it still wouldn't be competitive and yeh the tracks here are insane. If your not pro mod caliper then your more then likely not competitive. My how the track has changed. My 12.5 civic I had back in the day use to be competitive at the track, now something that caliper would be the slowest thing there.

Tommy42088

this guy's is on the same page as me, hell double that 800 rwhp still is barely competitive at the tracks around here. You may get a few races but mostly get your *** handed to you.

dannyz

Well I can't speak about any tracks other the Seattle/Portland where I am at ,but I can tell you there are damn few street legal DD driver cars that a mid 10 second car won't more then hold its own against.
In fact it's so rare, it's almost a non event.

Anyone with 330ish hp to the wheels of a 4th gen will be solid mid 12 car with a converter/tire combo.
A nd a mid 12 second dd car is still respectable around here, rose colored glasses or no.

dannyz

It can be competitive, depending what class you are running in.
Sportsman, super street, street tire only,etc.
There's something for everyone.
Just show up on a tnt night, walk around and call somebody out.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Not at all. A healthy LS1 can still run the same times today that it did 20 years ago (unless the measurement of time has changed in the last couple of decades). We weren't hallucinating then, and we're not now.

As mentioned above, I wasn't referring to being competitive at the track with a bunch of modified cars that also started with plenty more power. This was about impromptu stop light runs with random, garden variety newish V8 muscle that doesn't usually run quicker than ~ low 12s stock for the most part. A bolt-on + stalled LS1 4th gen can certainly be competitive with such in a stop light run. If the newer car is also modified then the situation changes, but then hasn't that always been the case?

dannyz

Exactly.
The OP isn't looking to compete in a 10.5 class race.
He just wants a completely street able car that he can play with on the street and take it to a tnt now and then.
And a stall/tire combo on a 4th gen is easily up to the task