fbody=poor quality
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 314
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From: Bessemer City NC
fbody=poor quality Why was Gm's quality so bad for the fbody? I like my fbody but, I hear a lot of people complaining about various things. I don't think I've heard of any other sporty type car having as many quality issues.
Some of the problems are:
-bent pushrods
-piston slap
-oil consumption
-warped brake rotors
-slow windows
-leaky t-tops
-10 bolt
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
-poor interior quality
-hatch dosent pop open well
If the Camaro comes back later on, I hope GM puts more emphasis on quality. It may help them sell more cars next time.
Some of the problems are:
-bent pushrods
-piston slap
-oil consumption
-warped brake rotors
-slow windows
-leaky t-tops
-10 bolt
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
-poor interior quality
-hatch dosent pop open well
If the Camaro comes back later on, I hope GM puts more emphasis on quality. It may help them sell more cars next time.
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From: its fucking cold
-bent pushrods
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?
-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm
-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't
-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen
-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate
-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals
-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.
-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.
-hatch dosent pop open well
Then adjust the stops.
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?
-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm
-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't
-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen
-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate
-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals
-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.
-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.
-hatch dosent pop open well
Then adjust the stops.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,648
Likes: 2,574
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Very few people have ALL of those problems. Some people have one or two issues, but that's true about any car, and many are due to misuse or owner abuse/neglect. If cars never broke, then dealers wouldn't have entire service bays full of techs, tools, and cars (of all types).
Thing is, most of the people on this board have these cars (f-bodies), and any time you have a high concentration of people owning one type of car the issues are going to come up more often. Plus, people don't make posts like "Another 10,000 miles without an issue, this car is GREAT!", because that is what's expected of the car. But when something does go wrong, people post to ask questions about determining what the issue is, how to fix it, or complaining about the hard time they're having with it.
Personally, I've had 1 3rd gen and 3 4th gen F-bodies. The only "quality" issue I ever had was a tinking driveshaft on my '99 Z28. Otherwise, my F-bodies have been the best cars I've ever owned. Other problems I've had with them I've tracked down to being direct results of the modifications I've performed. I Can't blame GM for that.
For the money, I think F-bodies were very high quality. IMO.
Thing is, most of the people on this board have these cars (f-bodies), and any time you have a high concentration of people owning one type of car the issues are going to come up more often. Plus, people don't make posts like "Another 10,000 miles without an issue, this car is GREAT!", because that is what's expected of the car. But when something does go wrong, people post to ask questions about determining what the issue is, how to fix it, or complaining about the hard time they're having with it.
Personally, I've had 1 3rd gen and 3 4th gen F-bodies. The only "quality" issue I ever had was a tinking driveshaft on my '99 Z28. Otherwise, my F-bodies have been the best cars I've ever owned. Other problems I've had with them I've tracked down to being direct results of the modifications I've performed. I Can't blame GM for that.
For the money, I think F-bodies were very high quality. IMO.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,648
Likes: 2,574
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Originally Posted by BlueSix
-bent pushrods
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?
-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm
-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't
-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen
-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate
-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals
-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.
-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.
-hatch dosent pop open well
Then adjust the stops.
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?
-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm
-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't
-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen
-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate
-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals
-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.
-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.
-hatch dosent pop open well
Then adjust the stops.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,648
Likes: 2,574
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Originally Posted by mattkimsey
I'd hate to start an argument but I don't hear of newer 99+ Mustangs having as many quality issues. The 99 Cobra was low on power but Ford fix it for free.
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Posts: 6,157
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by RPM WS6
And I agree with all of this, except the 10-bolt part. I've never had an M6 F-body so I concede that 10-bolt breakage is a much bigger issue for those guys. But for the A4 cars, I don't really see any issue with the rearend (to a point). I've had 1.6x & 1.7x 60 foots in my old WS6, plus many street launches on sticky tires with a FULL factory weight. Rear never broke. My opinion? If you can get rid of wheel hop totally, and you have an A4 car that you don't plan to see better than high 1.6/low 1.7 short times, the rear will be just fine for a long time. Just my experiance.
Me too. The 10 bolts arent built up to take alot of HP. Most of them do ok on a completely stock car. Unless the guy is dumping the clutch with slicks. It just wasnt designed for that. With that said...its still junk.
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From: Charlotte, NC
If we were so inclined we could make a similar list for any auto manufacturer you like. By the way, I noticed that you sold one GM and have a 99 model now. If you feel that GM makes such inferior quality products why did you purchase the second one? Also, there is no law prohibiting you from selling your 99 fbody and purchasing a 99+ mustang.
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I've seen 1.4X 60 foots with stock 10 bolt on a 50,000 mile Z many times. A4 of course, but it is still impressive IMO. I agree with RPM WS6 totally. What more do you expect out of it? It is not made from the factory to handle added power, huge stalls and ET Streets. With that in mind, I dont see how you could complain. An M6 with stock 10 bolt is reliable for sub 2.00 60 foots as well.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 314
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From: Bessemer City NC
-bent pushrods
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?
No, but would it hurt to have stronger pushrods from the factory? I mean people have bent pushrods with relativly stock cars.
-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm
but it's still an obvious problem which could have been prevented.....I've heard of some cars that do it even after thew car is warm.(sounds like a diesel)
-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't
Considering how many fbodies were made, if just 5% did burn oil, it seems like a problem which shouldn't happen.
-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen
Seems like it happens a lot and people replace the rotors with aftermarket ones.
-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate
I wouldn't call it a luxury when the windows don't go up and dowm properly.
-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals
What about newer cars that still have the problem without worn out seals.
-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.
Almost every fbody I've ever seen has had little spider web lines in the paint.
-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.
GTO wasn't available untill 04
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?
No, but would it hurt to have stronger pushrods from the factory? I mean people have bent pushrods with relativly stock cars.
-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm
but it's still an obvious problem which could have been prevented.....I've heard of some cars that do it even after thew car is warm.(sounds like a diesel)
-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't
Considering how many fbodies were made, if just 5% did burn oil, it seems like a problem which shouldn't happen.
-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen
Seems like it happens a lot and people replace the rotors with aftermarket ones.
-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate
I wouldn't call it a luxury when the windows don't go up and dowm properly.
-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals
What about newer cars that still have the problem without worn out seals.
-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.
Almost every fbody I've ever seen has had little spider web lines in the paint.
-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.
GTO wasn't available untill 04
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 314
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From: Bessemer City NC
Originally Posted by hepcatws6
If we were so inclined we could make a similar list for any auto manufacturer you like. By the way, I noticed that you sold one GM and have a 99 model now. If you feel that GM makes such inferior quality products why did you purchase the second one? Also, there is no law prohibiting you from selling your 99 fbody and purchasing a 99+ mustang.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: its fucking cold
No, but would it hurt to have stronger pushrods from the factory? I mean people have bent pushrods with relativly stock cars.
-show me one instance of bent pushrods that resulted from something other than a mechanical overrev (I.E. mis shift)
but it's still an obvious problem which could have been prevented.....I've heard of some cars that do it even after thew car is warm.(sounds like a diesel)
-I know what it sounds like, my GTO slaps until warm. I think it's been determined that the ones that "slap" while warm are actually ticking because of the oil pump gasket. It's a high performance engine that is built slightly "loose" it's bound to make some noises
Considering how many fbodies were made, if just 5% did burn oil, it seems like a problem which shouldn't happen.
-Show me one model of car that has never had consumption issues and i'll let you have this one.
Seems like it happens a lot and people replace the rotors with aftermarket ones.
-that doesn't mean the stockers are of a bad build quality....we replace the cam in these cars very often...does that mean the cam is of bad quality? or do we just want better performance?
I wouldn't call it a luxury when the windows don't go up and dowm properly.
-there's a difference between going up and down slow and going up and down properly. Ours are just slow.
What about newer cars that still have the problem without worn out seals.
-there's a "channel" in the seals....if you don't line it up properly they will leak. Take car of them and watch what you are doing when you put them back on and you wont have problems.
Almost every fbody I've ever seen has had little spider web lines in the paint.
-never seen that before, ever.
GTO wasn't available untill 04
-But it is available now...did you start this thread today or 3 years ago?
-show me one instance of bent pushrods that resulted from something other than a mechanical overrev (I.E. mis shift)
but it's still an obvious problem which could have been prevented.....I've heard of some cars that do it even after thew car is warm.(sounds like a diesel)
-I know what it sounds like, my GTO slaps until warm. I think it's been determined that the ones that "slap" while warm are actually ticking because of the oil pump gasket. It's a high performance engine that is built slightly "loose" it's bound to make some noises
Considering how many fbodies were made, if just 5% did burn oil, it seems like a problem which shouldn't happen.
-Show me one model of car that has never had consumption issues and i'll let you have this one.
Seems like it happens a lot and people replace the rotors with aftermarket ones.
-that doesn't mean the stockers are of a bad build quality....we replace the cam in these cars very often...does that mean the cam is of bad quality? or do we just want better performance?
I wouldn't call it a luxury when the windows don't go up and dowm properly.
-there's a difference between going up and down slow and going up and down properly. Ours are just slow.
What about newer cars that still have the problem without worn out seals.
-there's a "channel" in the seals....if you don't line it up properly they will leak. Take car of them and watch what you are doing when you put them back on and you wont have problems.
Almost every fbody I've ever seen has had little spider web lines in the paint.
-never seen that before, ever.
GTO wasn't available untill 04
-But it is available now...did you start this thread today or 3 years ago?
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From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by mattkimsey
I like the way fbodies look better. Ford quality + LS1&t56 would make the perfect car i guess
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From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by Wild85
Now that you are on the topic of rwhp. The LS1 was advertised at 320hp, now that i am sure is for insurance. But did Ls1's make 300 wheel hp for real?
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Originally Posted by mattkimsey
I like the way fbodies look better. Ford quality + LS1&t56 would make the perfect car i guess
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From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by Wild85
Now that you are on the topic of rwhp. The LS1 was advertised at 320hp, now that i am sure is for insurance. But did Ls1's make 300 wheel hp for real?
"Back in late 97/early 98 we figured it out since so many LS1s were running quarter mile times just as quick as the Corvettes, which were rated at 345hp. At first, many of us thought that only the earliest production LS1 f-bodies were getting these stronger motors, but soon people began getting their later built cars dynoed and found they put out over 300 horsepower at the wheels, making it's power at the engine closer to 350. My old 98 Formula dynoed 288rwhp in stock trim (on a 90F day at an outdoor dyno), which works out to about 330-340hp at the engine."
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From: its fucking cold
[QUOTE=Wild85]Now that you are on the topic of rwhp. The LS1 was advertised at 320hp, now that i am sure is for insurance. But did Ls1's make 300 wheel hp for real?[/QUOTE
Considering it's the exact same engine that was put in the 'vette i'd sure as hell hope it made 300 at the wheels.
Yes, most LS1's dyno right at 300 to the wheels in stock form.
Considering it's the exact same engine that was put in the 'vette i'd sure as hell hope it made 300 at the wheels.
Yes, most LS1's dyno right at 300 to the wheels in stock form.
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Originally Posted by mattkimsey
I like the way fbodies look better. Ford quality + LS1&t56 would make the perfect car i guess
Anyway, what is the point of this thread? Just to bash a car that you already own? If you dislike it, as hepcatws6 said just sell it to someone that will like it.
Either you expect way too much from your cars, or you've just had some bad experiances with your F-body. If the later is the case, then why did you buy a second one? And if the first one was fine and the second one is giving you all these problems, then doesn't that tell you that not all of them are like this?