mark306ci

it depends on what you mean by mild. mild can be .5 psi, 1psi, or one tenth psi. i don't want to oversell this overpriced $200 pieces of plastic and suggest some kind of mild supercharing effect. all i'm suggesting is that it is getting more air that's cooler in and there is a benefit.

the Diablo and that new Murcia(something) has scoops (either on the roof or on the sides at roof height). even my old $1500 1987 Toyota MR2 had a ramair that scooped from the right side (behind the passenger door)...routing between the trunk and rear bumper.....and then feeding air into the air meter sitting inside the rear left trunk area (behind driver door). and this car only made an advertised 112 hp at the crank. but the 85-86 MR2s didn't have this ram air. why did Toyota go through all of this effort? btw, they didn't advertise about this ram air neither.

don't most of them have radiators in the front? my MR2 did.

well isn't this the point of the SSRA, which now hooks up a tunnel contraption that's doing what the designed grill was doing, but is more tighter sealing and precise? why do many exotic cars have brake cooling ducts as you've pointed out? because it cools them better due to more air being directed there...same goes with the SSRA directing more air into the intake.

well i never refered to this F360 in my comment about the ROOF HEIGHT scoops....because there AREN'T any on this F360...maybe because it'll break every time the oldguy owner puts his top down. so i don't think i was confusing the difference between a ROOF LEVEL air scoop and one that is at the same level as the TIRES. did you know that Vietnam was the second largest producer of rice in the world? and that the dictator of N. Korea sends a private jet to Japan just to buy fresh sushi? any other random facts? :p

mark306ci

yea, there is a gain.

it'll take it for $200 and 15-20mins of my time.

mark306ci

but the point was, you included FRA, lid and filter (along with SSRA) as a waste and piddly. do you know of anyone who've only had LT's but no Lid, filter and FRA...and cut .4-.5 off of their ETs as you've suggested?

mark306ci

but if performance was your goal then why do you still have Flowmasters on your car? and what did those Flowmasters cost for that negative horsepower effect?

underated98Z

iTrader: (3)

Those flowmaster were free. It came on the car when I got it. I left them on the car cause after I go down the track and turn a 12 second time slip people ask me what have I done to the car and I tell them FRA, Lid, and flowmaster muffler only, not knowing I have an electric cutout bypassing the muffler. So people are like damn I thought flowmasters were terrible and I'm like I must have the right combination for my car. But like I said the SSRA or FTRA is not worth the money. I have had both on my car and showed no improvement over the FRA mod. With the FRA mod I did pick up almost a tenth in the 1/4, but by adding the SSRA I showed no improvement.

300bhp/ton

mild would mean, noticeable but NOT overwhelming. I don't have figures to hand but .6psi sounds familiar.


1. The Lambo's are ALL mid engined not rear engined.
2. The scoops are there for reason's I have already described. In addition, styling shoudl also be considered. Not every thing on every car is there for a function reason. Such as the non functional blocked off bonnet scoop on the 99-04 Mustangs, or the non functional shaker scoop on the 73-79 Trans Am's.
3. Toyota didn't advertise Ram Air, because it was NOT RAM AIR. Go back and read what Ram Air is. It is not just a Scoop. You can not force air into an engine just by turning the intake duct into the wind.

Yes, many do. But those scoops will be there as a simple air intake and air circulation, not to try and ram anything.


Brake cooling ducts are designed to circulate the air, promoting heat transfer and cooling. In much the same idea as heat sinks or cooling fins (like an air cooled engine has).

You can not cool air intake temperature the same way, as it is impossible to cool the air below ambiant temperature. If you did actually succeed to compress the air thus increasing the pressure it would also raise the temperture of the air, hence blower cars use an intercooler to try and bring the air back down to ambiant after it's been compressed.

This was an example of a scoop type, not location. You said side scoops, and it is in fact a side scoop. But the basic prinicples of how it works can be applied anywhere on the car - roof, bonnet, sides.

If you want a serious discussion keep it sensible, if you have to resort to this level then it is quite clear that it is beyond you and evidently you can find nothing to contrey the information I supplied to you.

All that I quoted is from reliable sources, it is ALL PROVEN FACTS. If you personally disagress please find information/data/evidence to back up the claim.

777

iTrader: (21)

Unless I just read something wrong, whoever said the ram air t/a's are crap are wrong. Common sense would tell you this. *When sealed* there is no way that it could be worse than the other cold air induction's. It is picking the air up straight from the outside. It doesn't have to go by the radiator (which is hot) and it is a straight shot unlike the cai you are talking about. I don't believe in "ram air" though. Just the lower intake temps. Again if I read this wrong just tell me and I will apologize. Either way this is what I believe about ram air and cai systems.

luvmeZ28

iTrader: (3)

the lid and filter are fine mods. not the greatest, but good. and maybe the FRA is too, maybe. but adding the "ram air" of the SSRA, FTRA, or SLP CAI i believe is a waste. i dont believe there will be a "noticeable" gain over the lid and filter, at least not $200 noticeable.

and yes, i do know someone who hasnt purchased a lid or a filter, but has LTs, and i think a catted Y, that dropped .4 or .5 off his stock runs. there are other variables in that, but they dont include any other mods. take that as you will.

its good to open up the air intake, but you can go overboard. take someone that purchases a lid,filter,bellow,maf, and SSRA. that person spent $500-$600 and they arent going to see(IMO) a gain over what just the lid and filters would have been. i feel that the others are dressup items. if you are so worried about the air intake, take all the money you waste on that stuff, and just buy a ported TB, lid and filter. thats money better spent.

mark306ci

well what do you want for $199 and 15 mins of install time? .6 psi is good enough for me.

where did i say all Lambo's have rear mounted engines? in the same pararaph i discussed the MR2 which had mid engines also. but what does it matter if it's rear or mid mounted? sounds like you're grasping for straws.

yea, to ram more air into the intake. ram air.

well no **** sherlock, where did i say that all scoops were functional. see what i mean by you bringing up nonsense arguments out of the blue from nowhere?

wrong. 87-88 MR2s have quite an elaborate ram air channeling. and it's kind of stupid to say that more air is not going into the engine vs the ducting turned against the wind.

you already admitted that there is an increase of .6 psi.

yea, more air is being rammed into that area.

how much extra heat is generated at the .6psi gain that you've already admitted? not much. the same goes with 4-5 psi superchargers or turbos that does not need an intercooler. the gain exceeds the loss caused by heat at that level.

yea an example that had nothing to do with my argument. i was referring to the scoops that rams air into the intake. what did you do? you show me a picture of a convertible Ferari with a scoop mounted on the bottom skirts. well no **** that's not a ram air scoop.

because you're merely grasping for straws. correcting me on a rear vs mid mounted engine. showing me pics of a convertible Ferari with bottom scoops. kind of idiotic.

you already admitted that there is at least a .6 psi gain.

thanks for proving my point. ram air does work.

mark306ci

well you don't even have one to be able talk about it.

lol, i'm pretty sure you're lying. unless you thinkg that 20 rwhp can cut .5 secs off.

nice try with the slipping of the $40 bellow and $150 maf in there to inflate the total to $500-600. lol.

luvmeZ28

iTrader: (3)

and i wont ever waste that kind of money on a mod that isnt worth it.


there may have been other factors involved, like i already said, but we definitely saw it. i dont need to/care to lie about anything, especially as pointless as this. oh, and 20rwhp is the lowball end of the spectrum anyway. ive personally seen cars get alot more than that on the dyno.

why not slip those in? i was talking about someone going overboard and wasting money, and they are pointless mods too. but every little bit helps right?

msbz_ls1

iTrader: (1)

i tend..to want to stay away from cai..dunno..y? i've just never really believed.i.t does enough for the $200 you got to spend on it.

mark306ci

yet you still spent money on a lid and filter which gains about the same or less.

since you've continuously stayed on this thread with almost immediate response ....and especially when i almost completely forgot about it for the past 2 weeks or so...thus my not responding until last night...i'd have to say that you really CARE a lot about this and enough to lie about knowng someone who would go through all that trouble putting on LT's but not bothering to swap the stock lid and filter with aftermarket ones.

there we go again with your personally unicorn eyewitness accounts.

so tell me, how many more RWHP are you suggesting that you've witnessed from LT's? what exactly is "alot more" than 20 RWHP.

numbers please.

well guess you've been caught trying to inflate the numbers. and now you're trying to laugh it off, lol. dude, you're ability to remain consistent with your arguments is diminishing by....well, probably since the beginning, haha.

luvmeZ28

iTrader: (3)

i spent about $100 for my lid and filter. not gonna spend the extra $200 on the cai because i dont believe i would get anything over the lid and filter.


almost immediate response? every few days, and then once a day, a couple
days is immediate huh? if youd like i will ask the guy why he only did exhaust if its really that important to you.

yeah, im just a big liar. and youre the big know it all right? call TSP and ask about some dyno numbers. it was at their shop that ive seen some of these "unicorn" cars.

im just gonna leave this one alone, because i wasnt aware that you had a dyno in your head, and that you knew ahead of time exactly how much horsepower every mod would give you, independently. i wish i was a know it all too.


youre the one inflating the numbers. youre on the side of the argument that says the CAIs are worth their money in performance. and how is my argument not consistent? i have consistently said that there are better mods for the money than CAI, that they dont offer any noticable performance gains, and that they arent worth the $200 price tag. youre the inconsistent one. you have resulted to calling me a liar because your argument has been "diminishing" since your first post.

anywho, this is my last post in this thread, and im terribly sorry that i hurt your feelings.

in closing, CAI NOT WORTH THE MONEY!

damon_Z

To the believers of underhood cold air induction, I can't believe nobody even posted a link to the install university article. Shame on you guys, because you could have saved your time and the nonbelievers' time. This should shut everybody up. Click on the link below, click on Tech Articles, and find the FTRA link. This is as technical as it can get.

http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm

Daredevil_TA

iTrader: (6)

when i got my FTRA installed i noticed a pretty big difference in the WOT, I also had a lid installed with it too, because thats what they suggested and it makes sense, however this mod also made my car run lean-basically it was too much air for the MAF to read and it wasn't compensating it with the right amount of fuel. So i had the MAF recalibrated and wow! it woke the car up a great deal, so basically, yes this mod is worth it if you take the time to make it work for you.

damon_Z

The following was taken from a recent post of mine in the dynamometer section in response to a post by 300bhp/ton (made earlier in a similar manner to this topic):

They performed two tests on the FTRA. First, they used Autotap and four runs--2 runs without the FTRA and 2 runs with the FTRA. They took the average numbers logged for both types of runs and discovered that the average intake temperature dropped by 11 degrees Farenheit and the Average Volumetric Efficiency (%) increased by 0.9%.

The second test consisted of the following (quoted from their article):

After many passes down the track testing out our kit, we sit down and averaged out the results. Our local track is an 1/8th mile track so we miss out on a full run down the quarter mile but we still showed nearly a tenth and one half mph (see Table 3). A one half mph gain in speed results in a nice 5 rear wheel horse power increase in the 1/8th. This should be greater for those running the quarter mile because the VE would increase even more as you achieve much higher speeds.

The only thing more important then being the fastest you can be at the drag strip, is getting an increase in gas mileage from a part that helps you go faster. After a day of driving on the interstate we ran the numbers on our gas receipts to see how much of an improvement would be had from the FTRA kit. With the FTRA kit blocked off and not in use we average 26.5 mpg. When the block off plate was removed and the front of the air box sealed off, we hit 28.1 mpg for a 5.7% increase in fuel economy. This alone will pay for the kit within 3,000 miles of driving with gas prices as high as they are these days.

damon_Z

I just learned from a reply to another post of mine, https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/387893-will-high-velocity-fan-blowing-car-show-even-more-gains-induction-mods.html#post3578909, that the correct way to interpret the above is that the FTRA didn't drop the intake temperature below ambient (supporting 300bhp/ton's earlier reply), but simply dropped the average intake temperature closer to ambient air temperature. Hence, the FTRA is not a true ram air setup, but only ram air by name. However, the results described above by Install University show that the FTRA and FTRA-style setups (such as SSRA2 and SLP CAI) are worth it.

(FYI, the SSRA2, or the SSRA without the scoop, is only $129 without the shipping charge of $12 from Al Austin, aka SS1le02, and is made out of plastic--eliminating any issues with heat soak.)