Black Z28 M6

Thats true many LS1 owner use stock internals

Black Z28 M6

GM has 4.8L and its weak. In no way a OHV engine can beat a OHC heads up. Even with 0.2L of advantage. Dont kid you self

Thats true many LS1 owner use stock internals

kaos_

iTrader: (12)

i have no business in here, but i just wanted to hop in and say my buddy's H/C formula (435hp) raped 3 cobras (480hp) a few weeks back.

+1 for light weight ls1s.

ChrisUlrich

In no way? Who's kidding who here?

1998z28ss

I find it funny to see all these Cobra lovers are running stock to lightly modded LS-1s. The stuff about this DOHC crap is garbage. All I have to say is look at the LS7 and how amazing it is. This pushrod OHV motor is hanging with all the 300k exotics and winning against most. All hail the pushrod!

unit213

The ignorance here sometimes is astounding.
Some of you seriously need to pick up a few (dozen) IQ points.

NHRAMAN

iTrader: (1)

DeviLs1

iTrader: (1)

The terminator was SVT/Ford's foot in the door to a making of a war machine..

Just like in 1997 When the LSx motor was introduced for GM...

but i dont think they shoud be compared...

86MonteSS

iTrader: (3)

i completely agree. I am die hard GM all the way, but i damn sure respect cobras. i actually cruise with a hell of a lot of them. This debate really needs to end.

Stock for Stock with the same driver cobra>than F-body

modded vs modded is all on who has more money and who knows how to spend it more efficiently.

It took heads and a cam to get my car running even with my buddies 04 that has an upper pulley and exhaust.

another friend with an 03 was running 597 RWHP with a kenne bell, but he blew a hole in a cylinder after a couple months.

Neither car is indestructable or unbeatable. There will always be a faster car. whether its a ford or a chevy is based on the driver's personal preference

unit213

Yes sir!

ponygt65

It's funny you say that. I joined this site because a mach friend refered me here to a partibular thread. since then I have noticed one thing.......ALOT of people here really don't know much about mustangs. They think they do, but they don't...and that is a deadly combination. I read all 3 pages, and I was blown away by the ignorant 'know it all' comments made in here.


Sad thing is, I have learned alot about LS motors since i have joined, and the same goes for SVTP.com...there are alot of members over there that are clueless to the LS cars. BUT, I think there is more ignorance and 'know it all' here, than there is over there......MAINLY, because there are more fbod and vette owners over on the SVT site, than there is stang/Ford owners here.


Now, I will gladly extend my knowledge about mustangs to anyone that wants to know. (and no, that wasn't meant as an arrogant statement)



ANd to the 1997 guy that mentioned a 2003 saleen cobra....Why would someone modify a 1 of 6 car? The idiocy of that tells me enough about that person.............

Oh, and that is IF he truely has a 1 of 6 Saleen Cobra.

ChrisUlrich

I think that's a little hard to say... people over at SVTPerformance are pretty damn clueless as well. They still live under the impression that SRT4s can't run. haha I'm sure that's everywhere though.

How clueless did I seem when reading this thread?

300bhp/ton

Ok, here goes. Boost is a measure of resistance not flow. So while the numbers will be bigger in psi terms it doesn't mean the flow is greater.

Think about two tyres one from a push bike and a 35" off road tyre from a truck. If you inflate them both to 30psi the truck tyre will still contain far more air. You could even inflate the bike tyre to 40psi but the truck tyre would still contain more air.

So a larger displacement motor like an Ls1 doesn't need as much boost for the same air flow.

No not really. You see when you add boost you increase the pressure in the engine.

Now a Cobra runs 8.5:1 SCR where as a Ls1 runs ~10.1:1 SCR so by adding the same amount of boost there will be far more pressure in the LS1. This affects thinks such as detonation and requires higher grade octane fuel. lowering the SCR will mean more boost and lower fuel requirement. Turbo applications may run as low as 7.0:1 SCR in some applicaitons.

So for example take two LS1 engines:

Engine 1 has a SCR of 10.1:1 and is running 9psi of boost

Engine 2 has a SCR of 8.5:1 and is also running 9psi of boost

In this instance Engine 1 would be making more HP. However it would be hard to add anymore boost and still run 93 octance fuel, so it is limited on how much HP han be produced.

Engine 2 on the other hand can probably handle somewhere in the region of 14psi of boost on 93 octane and would then be making substantially more HP than enigne 1.

Sadly not, this reverts to specific output or bhp/litre. While the LSx engines are some of the very best 2v OHV engines out there, multivalve engines will always have the advantage. This is due to something called curtain area. (Your best bet is too do a search on this site and use Google for more info on this.) Multivalve engines are typcially DOHC as it's the easiest approach, this is what the Cobra motor is.

This means that for every litre of displacement it will produce more HP. 600rwhp is quite possible from a Cobra running a KB with supporting mods. Which means as a very rough figure (600/4.6) 130rwhp/litre. If a 346ci LS1 was tuned to the same state it should be in the region of 743rwhp (130rwhp x 5.7). A 346ci Ls1 running the same fuel as the Cobra motor is unlikely to make the same amount of HP.

This is evident in other DOHC applications, a German car maker called Gumpert use a 4.2 litre DOHC Audi V8 with twin turbo's it manages nearly a 1000bhp on regular 91 octane fuel and in fully street/production trim.

Or to put it another way have you ever seen a 4.8 LQ4 (basically a cast iron Ls1) running pump fuel and a blower making over 600rwhp?

Well again this gpes back to what boost is and SCR.

But go take a look in the FI forum there are plenty of people running 14+psi of boost.

300bhp/ton

It's not in the remote bit garbage it's just physics. Yes the LS7 and z06 are supreme examples of performance but there are a lot of faster and more powerful cars out there.

Ferrari produce engines with 1 litre less capacity yet still produce nearly 150bhp more power in STOCK trim. And YES they could be modifed as well if wanted.

Formula 1 engines from last year managed 900bhp from 3.0 litres. If they where 2v per cylinder OHV puch rod engines they would have been no where near that level.

If it's such garbage why did Ford convert the 427 OHV into the OHC Cammer???

Why did Cooper take the OHV Rover V8 and convert it too OHC when used for F1 engines in the 60's?

'Trust'

iTrader: (24)

Comparing NA vs. FI is retarded. Not just from our point of view, but how do you think the Mustang guys would feel if we were like, "ok, which is better FI LS1 vs. N/A 4.6?" ... DUH! LS1'er excuses saying FI isn't fair etc. is dumb, then they can say Solid Rear isn't fair, or weight, or CI, or a number of things, anything vs. anything depends on what either side has.

slick1851

Theres alot of stupied people....

jpat1023

haha I remember that thread that you joined for...
Anyways, I am definitely going to have to disagree with you. Other than this thread, which was started by a noob and infested with noob comments, the potential of 03/04 cobra's is common knowledge around here. Most people even give the mach1 its due respect. But over at SVTP, Most just don't have a clue, even about mustangs, much less a car they don't own or want.

What is this comment supposed to mean?? It is contradictory to your argument. This is Why svtp members are more ignorant, and Why people here are less ignorant, we know more than just the cars we own...

jpat1023

Oh the Irony...

hammertime

iTrader: (1)

ponygt65

I guess I haven't read enough of this site then. Because I have read alot of incorrect information in regards to mustangs on here.....cobra's, machs, and the likes. The potential maybe common knowledge, but the specifics, and mod increases are not. As for Mach 1s and respect, it's funny you say that. I have received more respect here, than SVTP as a mach owner. Pretty sad really. As for having a clue over there.......well, I can partially agree with that. There are the die hard guys, and the 'image' guys, just like here.


It is not contradictory. Maybe I didn't word myself correctly. There are more GM owners on SVTP than there are FMC owners here (in comparison to the 'brand' of website). In other words, the ratio is like 10:1 there (ford to other brand) vs. 20:1 here (GM to other brand). I am not saying you have to 'own' the car to know about it, I am saying, that may contribute why members over there seem to know more about GM, than members here know about FMC. Just more exposure over there.


My post was not meant as a put down although, there are a few that posted in here, that seem to be 'lacking' some 'Ford' intellect.


OK, now that I re read this...I still dont' know if I am getting my point across correctly.....sorry if I confused you more.