TransAminal

Good choice

Camaroz

iTrader: (2)

Autocross = M6

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Technically, I guess all 4L60Es will crap out, usually they don't make it much longer than 130K miles from what I've seen. But that seems pretty good for a factory trans behind a motor that makes 350hp stock.

I've had 3 LS1 cars, all 4L60Es. The first ('99 Z28) and last ('98 Z28) have just been bolt-on cars that have never broken a stock trans, but they were/are both very low mileage under my ownership. However I drive them pretty hard. As for my WS6, that's a long story so bare with me for a moment.....it was a 365rwhp car with a cam shifting at 6300rpm with a 3500 stall. My stock trans was fine when I pulled it out, I was planning on doing some much bigger mods (heads, blower) so I thought I'd sell the stock trans while it was still good and get a built unit. I made a poor choice on my first trans builder. That trans was a piece of junk (wrong parts, poor build quality). So for the second trans I went to FLP (where I should have gone in the first place ), and they built me one the way it should be! Damn good trans from FLP (thanks Chuck )!! As it turned out, I sold the car before any bigger mods went in so I never really got to test that trans under major power though.

A better example would be one of our other club cars that I helped to build. It was an '02 WS6. We put a P1SC Procharger kit and a vig3200 stall on the otherwise stock car, and the stock trans did fine for almost a full racing season taking massive beatings at the track and even worse beatings on the street. Trans did fine, then we put a smaller pulley on the blower and installed an H/C package, at this point it was making 580rwhp and shifting at 6900rpm. The stock trans blew after a few passes at the track. But still, not bad all things considered. Then we went through some more poorly built trans' (even longer story we'll just skip this time) till we got a good one. With the *properly* built 4L60E the car was doing fine again for about 10-20 more passes till the owner decided to spray the car with a 100 shot on top of the 580rwhp package. On the first pass he blew two holes in the block. We think a stock rod shattered and tore everything apart. But that's a different story....

Anyway, I think the 4L60E is a great trans in stock form for bolt-on cars shifting at/near stock rpms, but it needs to be built if you plan on 6600rpm+ shifts and big power numbers. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect 100K miles or more from a stock 4L60E in a stock to minor bolt-on car with decent fluid maintenance and a trans cooler.

The issue you have to remember with the M6 cars isn't just the 10-bolt, it's also the clutch. So with an M6 car, if you plan to make big power, you're going to need a clutch and a rear. In the 4L60E car, for big power you'll be getting a built trans and a stall TC, but the stock rear will often be fine for a long time (we ran dozens of mid-10 to low 11-second passes on the stock rear in that '02 WS6 mentioned above).

Stall TC plus built 4L60E for the A4 car will, on average, be comparable cost to a good clutch plus 9"/12-bolt for the M6 car.

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

I drive an A4 and love my car to death. Got it 'cause it was to be my DD. If it weren't my DD, M6 all the way.

Almostryan3

iTrader: (6)

Autocross = B body! FTW!

and yes Im serious...

Almostryan3

iTrader: (6)

by the way I know a guy with a 3100 stall on an A4 runs a low 12 on completely stock rear and tranny has done about 100 passes and it runs perfect.

unit213

Probably because he's not making any kind of power. Throw some
real power at it and see how long it lives. My 4L60E saw 100's of
11 second passes while spraying through shifts.

darrensls1

I disagree. The A4 is the way to go IMO when drag racing is high on your list of things to do. You don't need a M6 to have 6 gears BTW. TH400 + GV OD = auto six speed

But then again a built 4L60E can easily run 10's. Cablebandit was even running high 9's through one before he went the 4L80E route.

So if you want a real stout 4 speed then a built 4L60E or 4L80E would be a great choice. For track only cars the TH400 or powerglide work very well for those that don't need OD.

Bottom line is there is no need to put a M6 back in unless you miss shifting with a clutch.

The key to making a stock 4L60E last is a good transmission cooler and keeping the shiftpoints under 6500 rpm's. So if the cam is something mid range like a TR224 and your shiftpoint is 6200 then I see no reason a stock 4L60E would not do well.

But your point is well taken if you are adding a bigger cam and spinning the motor to 6500+ rpm's. You would want a built 4L60E from a sponsor for that duty. But on the other side of the coin a M6 with big power and sticky tires will need a clutch upgrade and a 12 bolt.

Pick your poison so to speak.

There can be acceptions to any rule. But that does not change the fact that a M6 with sticky tires and aggressive launches is at serious risk of breaking the 10 bolt where the A4 is a lot more forgiving. The key for the A4 is preloading the drivetrain prior to the launch. The key for the M6 is saying a lot of prayers

blackbird007

iTrader: (1)

Seeing as how you are more into autocrossing, you need an m6. A friend of mine is pretty serious in autocross and he started out with an A4. After 2 rebuilds he swapped the A4 for an m6 and had much improved times.

He did not switch to the m6 because of poor rebuilds, he had top quality rebuilds, he was just better able to run the car with the m6. In his words, he said he was better able to control the power and could stay in what ever gear he wanted in mid corner without fear of the tranny shifting.

Almostryan3

iTrader: (6)

Are you disagreeing or agreeing? Your car made good power and ran lots of passes. That camaro is making around 400 crank, not amazing but all the guys saying an A4 wont hold up.

Skyfire

iTrader: (12)

should i have to worry about a stock rear end going out fast in autocross?

Almostryan3

iTrader: (6)

depends on what kinda shifting your doing but shift easy and stock power should last a while. They dont handle really well though lots of suspension mods need to be done to handle great, dont get me wrong they handle better than alot just not fantastic your 3kgt if it was a VR4 probably handled waay better.

darrensls1

I wouldn't think so. It's only going to break under the stress of a hard launch with sticky tires or bad wheel hop.

Unless you plan on sticky tires and a massive clutch dump to start an autocross race you'll be fine. But you still have to be careful with wheel hop. I have done that myself a few times just going into reverse too quickly.

SilverStang00

iTrader: (2)

If your gonna auot x, then M6 is your trans. I have owned fast auto cars and fast manual cars, and the manual is definitely a more fun factor, but when I get my Fbod it is going to be an A4. I look at it like this, I know I'm far from the best driver out there, and being competitive I want to have the best chance in a race, and thats easy with an A4. A stalled/bolt on auto car will take most modded M6s just because it is easier for the M6 guy to *** up the launch or a shift.

Skyfire

iTrader: (12)

i own a 91 SL so it is not that great in handling. but i just want a more powerful car to get me through faster. there are several people with lt1 and ls1s out there. a ls6 vette and more. but the fbodies do much better than me. i will be doing some suspension work but i think basic intake, full exhaust etc. will come first