A4 vs M6
#21
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Originally Posted by Skyfire
thanks for the help so far. I did research it some but I figured some people would throw in their input pretty fast. I race every autocross event held here which is one each month for 9 months out of the year. I am not sure if I will get into drag racing because I have never done it at a track. Autocross seems so much more fun and to me takes more of a driver. I want an m6 but they are harder to come by, and I still cannot even find hardly any of them. I'd prefer an m6 but I was checking to see which would be better for my situation according to the owners of the car. I think I'll stick with looking for a m6. Thanks!
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#23
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Originally Posted by CRAGER
All 4l60's that I have ever seen crap out, and with very little power to them. All have to be rebuilt at least one time.
I know you've had a few LS1's, A4's at that and mods. Has yours crapped out?
I'm not trying to step on your toes just asking, because put it this way.
I have a bonestock T-56 M6 behind my 427, same one that came on my car that I have been beating on for 6 years. You think a 4l60 in stock trim would last 30 seconds behind my motor? I know it would not, well maybe 45 seconds!![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
I know you've had a few LS1's, A4's at that and mods. Has yours crapped out?
I'm not trying to step on your toes just asking, because put it this way.
I have a bonestock T-56 M6 behind my 427, same one that came on my car that I have been beating on for 6 years. You think a 4l60 in stock trim would last 30 seconds behind my motor? I know it would not, well maybe 45 seconds!
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I've had 3 LS1 cars, all 4L60Es. The first ('99 Z28) and last ('98 Z28) have just been bolt-on cars that have never broken a stock trans, but they were/are both very low mileage under my ownership. However I drive them pretty hard.
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A better example would be one of our other club cars that I helped to build. It was an '02 WS6. We put a P1SC Procharger kit and a vig3200 stall on the otherwise stock car, and the stock trans did fine for almost a full racing season taking massive beatings at the track and even worse beatings on the street. Trans did fine, then we put a smaller pulley on the blower and installed an H/C package, at this point it was making 580rwhp and shifting at 6900rpm. The stock trans blew after a few passes at the track. But still, not bad all things considered. Then we went through some more poorly built trans' (even longer story we'll just skip this time) till we got a good one. With the *properly* built 4L60E the car was doing fine again for about 10-20 more passes till the owner decided to spray the car with a 100 shot on top of the 580rwhp package. On the first pass he blew two holes in the block. We think a stock rod shattered and tore everything apart. But that's a different story....
Anyway, I think the 4L60E is a great trans in stock form for bolt-on cars shifting at/near stock rpms, but it needs to be built if you plan on 6600rpm+ shifts and big power numbers. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect 100K miles or more from a stock 4L60E in a stock to minor bolt-on car with decent fluid maintenance and a trans cooler.
Originally Posted by CRAGER
So, I'll match your 10-bolts suck with M6 cars with 4l60's are crap in stock trim compared to t-56.
Again, you're right. 10-bolt sucks for M6 cars, see above. But its not like you sneeze and bye bye. They will last, just depends on what you put it through.
I was about to snap mine and bought a 12-bolt before it did. And that was after alot of track time.
But I have seen a few of my friends (Inspector12 & Nice Try) with 650rwhp M6 cars taken them to the track more then a few times and street race the **** out of both of them and their's NEVER broke. Wish I had their luck! lol
Peace,
Craig.
Again, you're right. 10-bolt sucks for M6 cars, see above. But its not like you sneeze and bye bye. They will last, just depends on what you put it through.
I was about to snap mine and bought a 12-bolt before it did. And that was after alot of track time.
But I have seen a few of my friends (Inspector12 & Nice Try) with 650rwhp M6 cars taken them to the track more then a few times and street race the **** out of both of them and their's NEVER broke. Wish I had their luck! lol
Peace,
Craig.
Stall TC plus built 4L60E for the A4 car will, on average, be comparable cost to a good clutch plus 9"/12-bolt for the M6 car.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 01-07-2007 at 07:45 PM.
#27
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Originally Posted by Almostryan3
by the way I know a guy with a 3100 stall on an A4 runs a low 12 on completely stock rear and tranny has done about 100 passes and it runs perfect.
real power at it and see how long it lives. My 4L60E saw 100's of
11 second passes while spraying through shifts.
#28
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Originally Posted by CRAGER
This topic has been beaten to death, I don't think you have searched at all.
Anyway, the M6 is the way to go no matter what. If you want to brag about how much better an auto car is at the track then get a real one, a TH350.
Then when you are tired of only have 3 gears you can slap the M6 right back in.
Anyway, the M6 is the way to go no matter what. If you want to brag about how much better an auto car is at the track then get a real one, a TH350.
Then when you are tired of only have 3 gears you can slap the M6 right back in.
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But then again a built 4L60E can easily run 10's. Cablebandit was even running high 9's through one before he went the 4L80E route.
So if you want a real stout 4 speed then a built 4L60E or 4L80E would be a great choice. For track only cars the TH400 or powerglide work very well for those that don't need OD.
Bottom line is there is no need to put a M6 back in unless you miss shifting with a clutch.
Originally Posted by CRAGER
A4 with cam = pwned, hell I have friends with bolt-ons and the A4 was trash. M6 can handle alot more hp's.
But your point is well taken if you are adding a bigger cam and spinning the motor to 6500+ rpm's. You would want a built 4L60E from a sponsor for that duty. But on the other side of the coin a M6 with big power and sticky tires will need a clutch upgrade and a 12 bolt.
Pick your poison so to speak.
Originally Posted by CRAGER
10-bolt this and 10-bolt that, I have seen 10-bolts go through some serious abuse from FI M6 cars at the track. It suprised me how long they can live.
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Seeing as how you are more into autocrossing, you need an m6. A friend of mine is pretty serious in autocross and he started out with an A4. After 2 rebuilds he swapped the A4 for an m6 and had much improved times.
He did not switch to the m6 because of poor rebuilds, he had top quality rebuilds, he was just better able to run the car with the m6. In his words, he said he was better able to control the power and could stay in what ever gear he wanted in mid corner without fear of the tranny shifting.
He did not switch to the m6 because of poor rebuilds, he had top quality rebuilds, he was just better able to run the car with the m6. In his words, he said he was better able to control the power and could stay in what ever gear he wanted in mid corner without fear of the tranny shifting.
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Originally Posted by unit213
Probably because he's not making any kind of power. Throw some
real power at it and see how long it lives. My 4L60E saw 100's of
11 second passes while spraying through shifts.
real power at it and see how long it lives. My 4L60E saw 100's of
11 second passes while spraying through shifts.
Are you disagreeing or agreeing? Your car made good power and ran lots of passes. That camaro is making around 400 crank, not amazing but all the guys saying an A4 wont hold up.
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depends on what kinda shifting your doing but shift easy and stock power should last a while. They dont handle really well though lots of suspension mods need to be done to handle great, dont get me wrong they handle better than alot just not fantastic your 3kgt if it was a VR4 probably handled waay better.
#33
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Originally Posted by Skyfire
should i have to worry about a stock rear end going out fast in autocross?
Unless you plan on sticky tires and a massive clutch dump to start an autocross race you'll be fine. But you still have to be careful with wheel hop. I have done that myself a few times just going into reverse too quickly.
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If your gonna auot x, then M6 is your trans. I have owned fast auto cars and fast manual cars, and the manual is definitely a more fun factor, but when I get my Fbod it is going to be an A4. I look at it like this, I know I'm far from the best driver out there, and being competitive I want to have the best chance in a race, and thats easy with an A4. A stalled/bolt on auto car will take most modded M6s just because it is easier for the M6 guy to *** up the launch or a shift.
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i own a 91 SL so it is not that great in handling. but i just want a more powerful car to get me through faster. there are several people with lt1 and ls1s out there. a ls6 vette and more. but the fbodies do much better than me. i will be doing some suspension work but i think basic intake, full exhaust etc. will come first