I used to own an M5 3800 '98 Camaro and always found the car fun to drive. I am now looking for an LS1 Camaro. I want something fun that can be driven to work if need be and something that I can upgrade and auto-x.

Any opinions on whether an A4 still has the fun factor that an M6 does?

Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

If you are looking for fun factor and a little auto-x here and there, an M6 is the only way to fly. You answered your own question with the ----> <----

Don't get me wrong, the autos have their pros, but not for what it sounds like you are looking for.

 

Well you're going to get a lot of oppinions both ways on this, but I prefer an automatic transmission in trucks and buses, but in a sports car I wouldn't consider anything but a stick. Also the T56 6-speed that comes in these cars is one of the best manuals ever made; it would be a crime to not use one IMO.

 

If you enjoy driving a manual car, there is no substitute. A4 LS1s are still very quick factory performance cars, but they bore me. Go test drive both and tell us what you think, thats the best advice you will get.

Tony

 

Thanks for the replies. I currently drive a '01 Acura 3.2TL. Its fast, but even with the autostick there are just things that you can't do that you can in a rear wheel drive manual.

I was curious to see what others thought as I see a lot of people drive the A4s on here and the M6s are relatively tougher to get.

I think I know the answer.

Chad.

 

I have been deliberating the same thing. I have an A4 but was considering doing an A-4 to M-6 swap with another car. I have decided to stay with the A4 because for my needs it'll be far less expensive and perform better at the track.

If I was to go to the M6 it will cost me $500 in labor to swap the parts. Then It'll cost me $2,000.00 to upgrade the 10 bolt to a 12 bolt rear end (I will break the 10 bolt with how I love to launch at lights). Then I'll have to upgrade the gears for another $500.00 because I will need it for a decent 1/4 mile time. Then I'll probably go through a clutch every year do to heavy use (or maybe not, depends on how good the aftermarket ones are). So all in all I need to spend probably $3500.00 or more to get the car ready for the track.

Staying with the A4 I will need to get a rear end girdle for $150.00 and the 10 bolt should last fine. I can stick with my 3.23 gears because they will compliment a 3500 stall torque converter nicely I have been told. So I need $1,000 for torque converter, trans cooler and shift kit. Then maybe $400.00 for predator for my TM. That's it and if I am a little careful on the launch and have my trans fluid and gaskets changed every 15k miles then the auto will be faster in the 1/4 mile and be less of a yearly expense. So my total here to get track ready was $1550.00.

If you drive in a lot of heavy traffic and like the track then get an A4 without hesitation.

If your not as concerned with the track and or you don't do a lot of heavy driving then the manual is a lot of fun and would be the better choice.

 

If you want to go fast and consistent go A4 but if you like to race from a roll go M6.

 

Darren- What about when your A4 goes out? It will go out! The pump drives are known for going out when you bump the line pressure up. And if you don't bump the line pressure up your clutch bands WILL go out with some serious racing. Have you priced a rebuild for that? M6's are cheaper in my book because most of the components can be replaced/rebuild in your drivway or garage. I can't rebuild a A4. My .02
-Travis

 

Well I have read other opinions that would disagree with that Travis. With a 3500 stall and nittos I have been told my trans can live a long and healthy life with a trans cooler. Will it? I don't know, time will have to tell that tale. But there is little doubt im my mind that 4.10 gears in the M6 (which is what gears I was gonna do after the swap) will brake the stock 10 bolt after a handful of hard launches from what I hear. Will the 10 bolt brake for sure on nittos? I don't know. What I do know is that the odds of me needing a 12 bolt with the M6 within a year is far greater then the odds of me needing a new trans or rebuilt trans within a year.

Now I do want to upgrade the trans to a better one but not immediately after spending $1500 on the TC and accessories. I went to the manual trans section of this forum and looked at all topics over the last year. I did the same in the automatic section. Both sections have a lot of threads that have something to do with trans problems or symtoms people want to have evaluated. But what I noticed was the manual section has far more threads that related to a trans/clutch problem then the automatic section had with trans/TC problems. I'd have to go back and count them one by one to be sure but it seemed to me that the manuals come with more concerns then the autos do.

But that is where I had to make a decision. Auto with better and more consistant 1/4 mile times and Probably less money invested or manual for more fun to drive and probably more money invested.

It's still hard to decide. I really want the M6 but the A4 will probably be more practical for me since I will see the track once a month for 1/4 mile timeslips and have a wife who will drive the car on occasion.

I know a lot of wemon are good at driving manuals but my wife has never driven one in her life. How comfortable would I be with her learning to drive stick on this kind of a car? It only takes one time of her missing fourth and putting it into second. I read a few threads about that very thing and they all ended with needing a rebuilt motor. I'd rather deal with a rebuilt trans then a rebuilt motor.

If you don't launch hard and drag race then the M6 wins hands down. I will not argue that. But if you tell me that the M6 is less maintence and overall cost even if you launch hard at the track and on the street with decent drag/sticky tires then I have to disagree.

The A4 has some advantages. If it didn't then no one would ever own one. Ever.

Actually let me rephrase that last sentence. If it didn't then no one who can drive a stick would ever own a auto or switch to one. Ever.

 

I prefer the A4 for a couple of reasons and here's why...The car is my daily driver to work with is a rather far commute. I'd rather be focused on stop and go traffic and avoiding stupid drivers rather than shifting gears. Also, since it's my daily driver I prefer the A4 for my Winter time commute since I need to obviously drive more cautiously on snow and ice and prefer not having to worry about what gear I'm in. I have nothing against the manual trans, it's just not anything I want to own. Maybe that will change down the road when the T/A isn't my daily driver but weekend cruiser.

 

A4s start taking a dump typically in the mid-11 and quicker ET range. Costly rebuild, typically around $2K for a good one.

A4s can be made quicker for less cash all thru the 12s. Once you get into the 11s, neither of the stock component setups are ideal. Things begin to even out on expenses. I know I'd much rather put $2K into a new 12-bolt, which is a phyiscal upgrade and a safer rearend, then to blow $2K on rebuilding the stock tranny so it can handle more abuse.

10-second M6:
$2K rearend
$500 clutch
$0 stock tranny
$250 driveshaft
Total= $2750

10-second A4:
$2000 rebuilt 4L60e
$700 converter
$500 custom tuning to alter shift points, torque management, etc... (required)
Total: $2700 without tuning, $3200 with tuning

Yes, it is *possible* to run 10s with stock setups for either type of format, but not reliably, and not for long. These upgrades listed above are based on reliable, proven upgrades.

Traffic in an Ls1 6-speed isn't bad at all, these clutches are pretty soft compared to alot of cars. My '69 clutch pedal is about 3 times stiffer than my '02 clutch pedal. THAT one sucks in traffic.

Living in a snowy area or an ultra-hilly area, I'd probably feel safer with an A4 however.

Tony

 

I commute to work every day with the M6 including snow-packed roads in the Winter and wouldn't have it any other way. I feel I have more control on a slick road with a manual, not less. Sometimes a automatic will go ahead and shift to the next gear just as you are anticipating a slow-down. But for someone that isn't good with a clutch and shifting, a A4 may be better in traffic and on slick roads.

 

My Formula had everything I wanted, EXCEPT being a manual trans car. But I had searched for a little while with no luck, and the deal I got was too good to pass up. The A4 is nice for drag racing b/c it's deadly consistent on times. I commute 80 miles roundtrip everyday to work, and having a 5-speed car before my formula makes me miss rowing the gears. My Nova will probably never have a manual, because in bracket racing, the manual has too many problems (missed shift, slipping clutch, hard initial shock on tires and rear ends, etc etc). Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good stick racers out there, just not anywhere near as many auto drivers.
Fun factor, I'd buy a M6, my $.02

Derek

 

If you want to AutoX, you shouldn't be considering anything BUT the M6 IMHO.

 

I know a bunch of guys around where i live that will build a A4 tranny to handle 10s for alot cheaper than that. And as for rearend , the M6 guys tend to break the stock rearend more than us A4 guys because of the drop clutch launches.And as for converters you can get them alot cheaper than 700.00 like from midwest, TCI,TCS, for less than that.If your gonna do a comparision on this you know that that M6 will need tuning also to run 10s so dont leave that out,To get the most out of both A4 and M6 you need tuning, you are not going 10s with a small cam so add 500.00.And while your at it what about a good shifter for that M6 also. They both are gonna cost you money either way so be prepaired .

 

Thats incorrect, an M6 doesn't "require" tuning due to the tranny. An A4 requires it in order to control shift points and firmness and torque management. I ran 11.0s on motor alone, without custom tuning, in my 382ci setup. When I ran 10.6s I only had to adjust for the larger injector sizes (434ci). Nothing to do with trannys. The MAIN reason A4 guys require tuning is for better drivability and adjusting shift-points. M6 guys can just drill out the TB hole a bit more.

Sure, you can buy cheaper converters, but you can also buy cheaper rearends (spooled), cheaper clutches (keep stock flywheel), and cheaper driveshafts. I was calculating "normal" prices for very good quality stuff.

Tony

 

So then your are saying that a 10 second car does require tuning correct no matter A4 or M6 . And as for drilling out the Throttle body hole , that works on both A4 and M6.Im not starting anything , just adding my 2 cents and as for performance I know you know that any tuning in a ls1 will add Horsepower,12s or 11s or 10s. Either way i feel the tuning is worth the money. nice talking with you Nine ball.Ps i wouldnt call midwest or TCI or Tcs bad quality,they have proved themselves.Quote I was calculating "normal" prices for very good quality stuff.Im not flaming you man just talking , keep up the good job .

 

I never said TCI or TCS were "bad quality". Stop putting words in my mouth please. The only one that mentioned product names in this thread was YOU. NOT me. If you aren't trying to start anything, then drop it already. Let the man go drive both cars and see which is right for him. None of us will be able to choose for him.

Tony

 

I have an A4, at the time I was getting into LS1s the M6 clutch situation was rediculous, but thats now resolved.

Lately I find myself wanting an M6. Grass is always greener on the other side I guess.

J.

 

I have an A4, and mine went out right at 50,000 miles. But, this was a stock tranny and cooler that took abuse from me it's entire life. I race alot, and punch it on straight aways for fun and this is one tough transmission. As far as rebuild costs, I got a shift kit installed, new high performnace clutches and steels, band, tow bill, and my stall raised in my converter for only $1036.00 at Camargo Transmissions in Mt Sterling KY. The tow bill itself accounted for $75 of the bill. Now my tranny will last longer than before because I had it built to take my abuse. If you want to do hardcore drag racing, you can't beat an A4. If not, no matter what the reason, fun for instance, definately get the 6 speed.