Titanium Engines?
Titanium Engines? I recently read up on the LSX engine on Wikipedia, where it states that it is cast iron with titanium headcams and various other parts. Seeing that the only difference between the LSX and LS9 is that the LSX has titanium parts that apparently make a significant improvement, I began to wonder why don't they make an engine entirely of titanium? I've seen a website that offers "titanium forged engine blocks," but I'm not sure what that exactly means.
So my question is, is there such a thing as an all titanium engine?
What's the best quality material you could use for an engine?
So my question is, is there such a thing as an all titanium engine?
What's the best quality material you could use for an engine?
porsche and bmw but mostly porsche uses magnisum. having some parts made out of titanum wont be as rigid as it is made out of another material. but i am not to sure il ask my dad since he is a machinest and works with titanium all the time! but he did say that titanium is bad for your hands and is posion
yea it would cost alot, but i dont think titanium likes combining with iron, since they have to put iron cylinder sleeves in it anyways, thats why they use magnesuim
titaniun is as strong as steel and only about 60% the weight. was reading something last year that said it was like $40 a pound. i read it online so it could be way off. btw most junk yards will pay about $100 per ton of steel, just for a reference.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Well, if you look into the properties of what makes titanium the metal it is, it's easy to understand why it would be regarded as some type of "wonder metal" as far as the racing industry is concerned. Its combines the strength of high0alloy steels with the weight of aluminum. However, the problem is that once you start looking at the numbers of what comprises titanium and it's production, the numbers just do not add up. For a racers standpoint, it is just not a practical metal.
As far as actually machining parts from titanium, it's not practical. In it's stronger forms, titanium is EXTREMELY notch sensitive. Fatigue cracks are likely to start from ANY surface imperfection, including stone chips, drop marks or tool scratches. Not only that, the stuff is expensive to buy, expensive to machine, and will gall against steel. PASS!
Additionally, the stuff is very difficult to form. Titanium in it's molten form is very reactive with oxygen. Meaning that to work with the stuff, your going to have to have it in a chamber that is in a vacuum, or filled with an inert gas. (Usually Argon). No DIY jobs either, don't even think about fabricating a chamber yourself and pumping in some argon and pulling out the TIG welder. Go to a professional.
As far as actually machining parts from titanium, it's not practical. In it's stronger forms, titanium is EXTREMELY notch sensitive. Fatigue cracks are likely to start from ANY surface imperfection, including stone chips, drop marks or tool scratches. Not only that, the stuff is expensive to buy, expensive to machine, and will gall against steel. PASS!
Additionally, the stuff is very difficult to form. Titanium in it's molten form is very reactive with oxygen. Meaning that to work with the stuff, your going to have to have it in a chamber that is in a vacuum, or filled with an inert gas. (Usually Argon). No DIY jobs either, don't even think about fabricating a chamber yourself and pumping in some argon and pulling out the TIG welder. Go to a professional.
Trending Topics
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
In fact, the more you read up on the metal the more of an appreciation you have for it. It really makes me wonder why all these guys running around with these ZO6's really know whats up when they rip out the titanium components of their exhaust system and put in some stainless steel cat back system instead.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?
Pouria Savadkouei
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo As far as actually machining parts from titanium, it's not practical. In it's stronger forms, titanium is EXTREMELY notch sensitive. Fatigue cracks are likely to start from ANY surface imperfection, including stone chips, drop marks or tool scratches. Not only that, the stuff is expensive to buy, expensive to machine, and will gall against steel. PASS!
This is the website I was referring to: http://www.geocities.com/gerch85/
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN
In fact, the more you read up on the metal the more of an appreciation you have for it. It really makes me wonder why all these guys running around with these ZO6's really know whats up when they rip out the titanium components of their exhaust system and put in some stainless steel cat back system instead.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
If titanium has these problems, then isn't aluminum even more susceptible? Or are they about the same, with titanium just having a much higher price tag? If they're using cast iron blocks, then they could just as easily use stainless steel or inconel, right?
This is the website I was referring to: http://www.geocities.com/gerch85/
This is the website I was referring to: http://www.geocities.com/gerch85/
Aluminum is the earths most common metal, and it's the best bet for a racer as for as availability and price.
This is straight from "Engineer to Win; By Carrol Smith"
A unique combination of mechanical characteristics places aluminum at the top of any racers list of structural materials. It is about 1/3 the weight of steel, yet some aluminum alloys exhibit tensile strengths superior to those of low carbon steels.
It can be cast by any method known to foundry men, and the casting can be heat treated to moderate strength and stiffness levels. It can be rolled into an almost infinite variety of sheet and bar configurations, drawn into wire form and extruded into structural shapes. It can be fabricated readily into any form and it can be joined by about any method, bolting riveting, and welding. Finished fabrications and weldments can also be heat treat to hight strength and stiffness levels.
It can be cast by any method known to foundry men, and the casting can be heat treated to moderate strength and stiffness levels. It can be rolled into an almost infinite variety of sheet and bar configurations, drawn into wire form and extruded into structural shapes. It can be fabricated readily into any form and it can be joined by about any method, bolting riveting, and welding. Finished fabrications and weldments can also be heat treat to hight strength and stiffness levels.
For our purposes, Aluminum also has another great advantage. It crashes well. When and If a race car DOES hit something, a great deal of impact is absorbed by the aluminum deforming. Remember, what ever isn't absorbed by the car is absorbed by the driver.
So next time your thinking about a composite chassis or cast wheels, give this a thought.
Additionally, Aluminum can be alloyed with other metals to give it better characteristics. Copper, Maganese, Silicon, Magnesium and Zinc for example can be combined with aluminum.
It doesn't say anywhere in the book about it being susceptible to fatigue cracks like titanium.
As far as the website you showed me. I dunno. Just based on the fact that the "business" can't even afford its own domain name and uses a geoshities website is enough to throw up a red flag IMHO.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 63
From: Knappa, Oregon
That's what my wedding ring is made out of. Scratch proof unless your using carborundum or emery cloth. But it's heavy and brittle so I don't think you'd want a block made from it. It's also a neutron reflector so it tends to make the atomic parts of your engine go critical when you are late for work.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
I parted with my Ti exhaust... and I could care a less about it. If I want a Ti exhaust... I'll get a hold of the appropriate channels and have a straight pipe Ti made to adapt to my headers.
You'll see much more promise out of the composite graphite and ceramet blocks. I like the ceramets more however.
Al is like white bread, moldable into about any shape, usable for everything; but with compromises.
You'll see much more promise out of the composite graphite and ceramet blocks. I like the ceramets more however.
Al is like white bread, moldable into about any shape, usable for everything; but with compromises.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Given these circumstances, it looks like aluminum really is the most practical material to use. I guess it felt a little uneasy to think that the material that's been readily used for all this time will remain the best choice for combustion engines even into the Jetson-age. Of course, whether the combustion engine will still be used by then is another story.
However, with respect to strictly performance and lifespan, I suspect (like some exceptional aluminum alloys) that there are particular titanium alloys that will excel proportionately greater than aluminum as some aluminum alloys do low carbon steel. I also suspect the general advantages are exemplified by the fact that elite crafts are made from it, such as military/space vehicles and the Concorde. But as aforementioned, application is critical to the advantages/disadvantages a material contributes, and for average racers less than rich, it's hard to beat aluminum.
As for the LSX, is its cast iron block designed to only withstand outstanding performance (since it supposedly can handle up to 2500hp), or does it also give improved lifespan to the engine vs. the LS series?