LSX Shootout 2009 275 class?????????
Exhaust size limited to 1 7/8 primary and 3” collector<!--[
This leaves us out.
2750 base weight, then add weight for Fabricated intakes, drysumps and coil overs and run what you brung on a 275, if you didnt being enough then thats sucks for you. Step up or step out
Keep it simple and to the point.
Keep it simple and to the point.
Yeah i see that now. but the limited kit and noid rule would make it pain to come all the way down to run and have to cap a kit remove a noid put a distro block change headers etc. We will see how it works out.
I agree with Shiz. I'm running a little stock cube motor and if I can't use both kits I might as well not even show up. With both kits I could possibly get lucky enough to go a couple of rounds. The best I've ran with one kit is 9.50's and I know that won't be fast enough to go any rounds.
I'd like to see an "All out" run what you brung and maybe make people add a little weight for multiple kits, bigger cubes, aftermarket engine management, etc.
I'd like to see an "All out" run what you brung and maybe make people add a little weight for multiple kits, bigger cubes, aftermarket engine management, etc.
2750 base weight, then add weight for Fabricated intakes, drysumps and coil overs and run what you brung on a 275, if you didnt being enough then thats sucks for you. Step up or step out
Keep it simple and to the point.
But how many of the serious nitrous guys are going to change the setups for 1 race. i could see if this was a discussion for a Series but not 1 race. So it's either you get a handfull of fast cars or a full field of weekend nitrous cars.
***** the NMCA lets do this our own Way, like the old LS1tech shootout. Lets see if we can piggy back on a race weekend in Texas to not have to rent our own track, we set our own rules, entry fees pay the pot and lets get some nitrous sponsors to help out.
***** the NMCA lets do this our own Way, like the old LS1tech shootout. Lets see if we can piggy back on a race weekend in Texas to not have to rent our own track, we set our own rules, entry fees pay the pot and lets get some nitrous sponsors to help out.
You would have a better shot of trying t0 make rules for a 8.75-9.5 class. I would love to see a sub 8.5 nitrous field but it will only be 4-5 cars max. NMCA is definatly not interested in that.
Build a car to fit the rules. Dont build the rules to fit your car. Nobody is willing to change there set up to run the classes that are already out there.
I think NMCA did a great job last year. That gave out something for us N20 guys. All the people that complained for not having any thing, didnt show.
If you want something competitive, for the budget minded people. Then go bracket racing. Everyone will fit the class.
There will always be someone with deep pockets running fast. Then everyone will complain about it........No car count no race.
I think NMCA did a great job last year. That gave out something for us N20 guys. All the people that complained for not having any thing, didnt show.
If you want something competitive, for the budget minded people. Then go bracket racing. Everyone will fit the class.
There will always be someone with deep pockets running fast. Then everyone will complain about it........No car count no race.
Build a car to fit the rules. Dont build the rules to fit your car. Nobody is willing to change there set up to run the classes that are already out there.
I think NMCA did a great job last year. That gave out something for us N20 guys. All the people that complained for not having any thing, didnt show.
If you want something competitive, for the budget minded people. Then go bracket racing. Everyone will fit the class.
There will always be someone with deep pockets running fast. Then everyone will complain about it........No car count no race.
I think NMCA did a great job last year. That gave out something for us N20 guys. All the people that complained for not having any thing, didnt show.
If you want something competitive, for the budget minded people. Then go bracket racing. Everyone will fit the class.
There will always be someone with deep pockets running fast. Then everyone will complain about it........No car count no race.
I guess most people would say the same thing if they had the fastest car.
Its a little harder for us guys who are racing out of our pockets and garages in the backyard to keep up with the shop cars.
I refuse to run brackets, so instead of wasting $2,000 going to Memphis to win a $1800 LSX block, only to get waxed in the first round (like you have 2 years in a row) I'll stay home and race heads up locally.
If I owned a LS1 shop it would probably be in my best interst to build a car and bring it to the LSX race.
I understand your step up or step out philosophy that is why we didnt come last year and unless there is a class that we fit into better than DR we will be racing locally again this year.
Fact is there are far more 9.5-8.5 Nitrous cars than there are low 8second cars. These guys dont/wont run brackets (it would be hard to bracket race a 9.0 nitrous car) so they are trying to get a class together so they have somewhere to race.
Let them try and get it together maybe you will have a few customers who want to get in and it will be good for business.
These are 275 rules that are Proven to work.
BALLAST:
Permanently attached ballast may be added in a NHRA legal manner. Removable ballast for the
purpose of classification adjustments is limited to 100 lbs. in a NHRA weight box.
BODY
BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance and profiles. Aftermarket fiberglass parts are limited to hood, fenders, deck lid and bumpers, One piece front-ends are allowed, but must retain factory grill, head lights, and marker lights (no fake or airbrushed grilles allowed). Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted, but may not extend more then 14 inches from the transition point with the body to the tip. The driver and passenger doors must be fully operational and must open from the outside.
FIREWALL:
Must retain factory unaltered firewall, in factory location. A cosmetic overlay is permitted.
HOOD / SCOOPS:
Cowl & forward facing hood scoops are allowed. Scoop or cowl may not exceed more than 9 inches at the highest point of the air inlet opening above the height of the original hood surface.
INTERIOR:
All factory interior pieces including pedal assemblies must be in factory locations. Factory door panels, headliner, carpet, dashboard are required. Back seat may be deleted, but must have carpet covering the bare floor.
SEAT LOCATION:
Two front bucket seats, or one bench seat with upholstery required. Seats must remain in the
stock location.
WINDOWS:
Front Windshield and Rear Window may be lexan. All front door & 1/4 windows must be OEM Safety Glass must be fully operational.
CHASSIS / SUSPENSION
FRONT SUSPENSION
Suspension components must all remain in stock locations. Direct bolt-on A-arms are
permitted. Tubular K-members that are a direct bolt on are permitted. Vehicle must retain factory
shock system (Struts or relocated shocks are permitted only if one of the approved front end kits listed below are installed with no modifications from the aftermarket specs..) Sway bars may be
removed. These Aftermarket Bolt-on Front Ends are legal; Chris Alston's No-Fab, TCI, AJE or Smith Racecraft Front Suspension kits for Chevy II, Early Camaro's & Nova's are legal. Since there are many new and improved kits on the market, Please call for prior approval of whatever kit you choose to run.
K-MEMBER
Aftermarket factory-replacement-type K-member permitted, but must attach to the chassis using only the original factory OEM-type mounting bolts. No part of the K-member may be welded to the chassis.
REAR SUSPENSION
Mini tubs are permitted, no full size wheel tubs will be allowed. *Shocks must retain original side to side angle within (+/- 5-degrees) Which means if you move the Bottom mount inward 3", then you must move the Top mount inward 3" And keep the angle from left to right within 5-degrees from factory angle...If your Factory Shocks were set at a 15-degree angle, and yours are mounted straight up and down, you will receive the 50lb weight penalty. (If your car came factory with one shock in front and 1 behind the rear end, you may move them so there both on the same side of the rear end housing.)
*Any car using rear Coil-Over Shocks that include Coil-Over Springs will receive the 100lb weight penalty
FRAME & CHASSIS
Stock frame rails must be retained in stock locations (NO EXCEPTIONS) front and rear. Notching of rear frame rails for tire clearance is permitted. Sub frame connectors are permitted.
DRIVE TRAIN
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS:
Any OEM automatic transmission permitted. Aftermarket torque converter, shift kit, valve body, shifter, and pan cooler use are permitted. Trans brakes are permitted.
MANUAL TRANSMISSION:
After-market clutch (single disc only) assisted manual transmissions are allowed (See Weight Penalty's) Clutch/automatics or planetary transmissions are not allowed. Split sliders are also not allowed. All shifts must be made manually without the aid of electric, hydraulic or pneumatic devices. Any manual transmission built by an automotive manufacturer, with stock case and gears will race at same weight as an automatic transmission entry.
REAR END:
Any factory type rear end is allowed.
ELECTRICAL:
The battery may be relocated.
ELECTRONICS:
Nitrous Controllers are permitted.
ENGINE:
No cubic inch limits.
ENGINE BLOCK:
Aftermarket Cast Iron & Aluminum (Add 50 pounds "Aluminum blocks only") production blocks are allowed. Aluminum blocks permitted at no weight penalty only on vehicles that came factory equipped and using OEM power plant.
OIL-RETENTION DEVICE:
All cars must utilize an NHRA-accepted lower engine oil-retention device; may use a belly pan in lieu of a device attached to the engine. The belly pan must extend from framerail to framerail and extend forward of the harmonic balancer and rearward of the flywheel and must incorporate a minimum 2- inch-high lip on all sides. A nonflammable, oil-absorbent liner mandatory inside of retention device.
CAMSHAFT:
Any camshaft allowed
CARBURETOR / THROTTLE BODY:
Any single or dual carburetor or throttle body set-up is allowed
EFI:
Any EFI system is permitted
ENGINE MOUNT LOCATION:
Engine must remain in stock location. Engine may not touch the factory unaltered firewall. Motor plates are permitted.
HEADS:
Aftermarket cylinder heads, aluminum or cast iron are allowed (No Billet Heads Permitted),
INTAKE MANIFOLD:
Any cast iron or cast aluminum intake manifold is permitted.
Sheet metal or other composite manifolds permitted but at a weight penalty.
EFI may use a Composite upper manifold at no weight add if lower cast manifold is used.
NITROUS:
Any nitrous combo is legal,
EXHAUST:
Production type mufflers or collector mufflers are required. Modification or removal of muffler internals is prohibited (no gutting).
FUEL / FUEL SYSTEMS:
Gasoline is the only fuel permitted. Mechanical and Electric fuel pumps, fuel cells, pressure regulators, and any line size are allowed. No alcohol or fuel additives are allowed.
IGNITION:
No restrictions
OILING SYSTEM:
No Restrictions. The front cross member may be altered for oil pan removal. Vacuum pumps are acceptable.
ON BOARD DIAGNOSTICS / DATA RECORDERS:
On board diagnostic computers and recorders are permitted. Memory and playback tachometers are allowed.
TRACTION CONTROL:
Not Permitted.
RADIATOR:
An automotive-type radiator is required.
STEERING:
Rack and Pinion allowed on all vehicles.
STREET LEGAL REQUIREMENTS:
All cars are required to have working headlights and tail lights (headlights doors must be fixed open or work manually or automatically on cars so equipped). Brake lights, turn signals are required.
TIRES:
Front tires must have a minimum tread width of 4.5 inches. Front tires do not have to be DOT approved. Rear Tires... Any 275x60x15 Drag Radial Tire
WEIGHT BREAKS:
Weight breaks are determined by the engine combinations and power adders
WEIGHT GUIDE
Base Weight (All weights are race-ready, car with driver)
Small Blocks W/Nitrous........................................... ..........2825 lbs
WEIGHT ADDS & BREAKS:
Add 50 lbs. For Factory Shocks that do not meet the mounting angle guidelines
Add 50 lbs. For any Sheet Metal or Composite Intake Manifold.
Add 50 lbs. For any non Factory Manual Trans (single disc clutch type only)
Add 25 lbs. For Dry Sump Oiling System
Add 50 lbs. For Aluminum Engine Blocks
WHEEL BASE:
Must retain stock wheel base with a maximum variation right to left and front to back of one inch.
WHEELIE BARS:
Wheelie bars are strictly prohibited.
Permanently attached ballast may be added in a NHRA legal manner. Removable ballast for the
purpose of classification adjustments is limited to 100 lbs. in a NHRA weight box.
BODY
BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance and profiles. Aftermarket fiberglass parts are limited to hood, fenders, deck lid and bumpers, One piece front-ends are allowed, but must retain factory grill, head lights, and marker lights (no fake or airbrushed grilles allowed). Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted, but may not extend more then 14 inches from the transition point with the body to the tip. The driver and passenger doors must be fully operational and must open from the outside.
FIREWALL:
Must retain factory unaltered firewall, in factory location. A cosmetic overlay is permitted.
HOOD / SCOOPS:
Cowl & forward facing hood scoops are allowed. Scoop or cowl may not exceed more than 9 inches at the highest point of the air inlet opening above the height of the original hood surface.
INTERIOR:
All factory interior pieces including pedal assemblies must be in factory locations. Factory door panels, headliner, carpet, dashboard are required. Back seat may be deleted, but must have carpet covering the bare floor.
SEAT LOCATION:
Two front bucket seats, or one bench seat with upholstery required. Seats must remain in the
stock location.
WINDOWS:
Front Windshield and Rear Window may be lexan. All front door & 1/4 windows must be OEM Safety Glass must be fully operational.
CHASSIS / SUSPENSION
FRONT SUSPENSION
Suspension components must all remain in stock locations. Direct bolt-on A-arms are
permitted. Tubular K-members that are a direct bolt on are permitted. Vehicle must retain factory
shock system (Struts or relocated shocks are permitted only if one of the approved front end kits listed below are installed with no modifications from the aftermarket specs..) Sway bars may be
removed. These Aftermarket Bolt-on Front Ends are legal; Chris Alston's No-Fab, TCI, AJE or Smith Racecraft Front Suspension kits for Chevy II, Early Camaro's & Nova's are legal. Since there are many new and improved kits on the market, Please call for prior approval of whatever kit you choose to run.
K-MEMBER
Aftermarket factory-replacement-type K-member permitted, but must attach to the chassis using only the original factory OEM-type mounting bolts. No part of the K-member may be welded to the chassis.
REAR SUSPENSION
Mini tubs are permitted, no full size wheel tubs will be allowed. *Shocks must retain original side to side angle within (+/- 5-degrees) Which means if you move the Bottom mount inward 3", then you must move the Top mount inward 3" And keep the angle from left to right within 5-degrees from factory angle...If your Factory Shocks were set at a 15-degree angle, and yours are mounted straight up and down, you will receive the 50lb weight penalty. (If your car came factory with one shock in front and 1 behind the rear end, you may move them so there both on the same side of the rear end housing.)
*Any car using rear Coil-Over Shocks that include Coil-Over Springs will receive the 100lb weight penalty
FRAME & CHASSIS
Stock frame rails must be retained in stock locations (NO EXCEPTIONS) front and rear. Notching of rear frame rails for tire clearance is permitted. Sub frame connectors are permitted.
DRIVE TRAIN
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS:
Any OEM automatic transmission permitted. Aftermarket torque converter, shift kit, valve body, shifter, and pan cooler use are permitted. Trans brakes are permitted.
MANUAL TRANSMISSION:
After-market clutch (single disc only) assisted manual transmissions are allowed (See Weight Penalty's) Clutch/automatics or planetary transmissions are not allowed. Split sliders are also not allowed. All shifts must be made manually without the aid of electric, hydraulic or pneumatic devices. Any manual transmission built by an automotive manufacturer, with stock case and gears will race at same weight as an automatic transmission entry.
REAR END:
Any factory type rear end is allowed.
ELECTRICAL:
The battery may be relocated.
ELECTRONICS:
Nitrous Controllers are permitted.
ENGINE:
No cubic inch limits.
ENGINE BLOCK:
Aftermarket Cast Iron & Aluminum (Add 50 pounds "Aluminum blocks only") production blocks are allowed. Aluminum blocks permitted at no weight penalty only on vehicles that came factory equipped and using OEM power plant.
OIL-RETENTION DEVICE:
All cars must utilize an NHRA-accepted lower engine oil-retention device; may use a belly pan in lieu of a device attached to the engine. The belly pan must extend from framerail to framerail and extend forward of the harmonic balancer and rearward of the flywheel and must incorporate a minimum 2- inch-high lip on all sides. A nonflammable, oil-absorbent liner mandatory inside of retention device.
CAMSHAFT:
Any camshaft allowed
CARBURETOR / THROTTLE BODY:
Any single or dual carburetor or throttle body set-up is allowed
EFI:
Any EFI system is permitted
ENGINE MOUNT LOCATION:
Engine must remain in stock location. Engine may not touch the factory unaltered firewall. Motor plates are permitted.
HEADS:
Aftermarket cylinder heads, aluminum or cast iron are allowed (No Billet Heads Permitted),
INTAKE MANIFOLD:
Any cast iron or cast aluminum intake manifold is permitted.
Sheet metal or other composite manifolds permitted but at a weight penalty.
EFI may use a Composite upper manifold at no weight add if lower cast manifold is used.
NITROUS:
Any nitrous combo is legal,
EXHAUST:
Production type mufflers or collector mufflers are required. Modification or removal of muffler internals is prohibited (no gutting).
FUEL / FUEL SYSTEMS:
Gasoline is the only fuel permitted. Mechanical and Electric fuel pumps, fuel cells, pressure regulators, and any line size are allowed. No alcohol or fuel additives are allowed.
IGNITION:
No restrictions
OILING SYSTEM:
No Restrictions. The front cross member may be altered for oil pan removal. Vacuum pumps are acceptable.
ON BOARD DIAGNOSTICS / DATA RECORDERS:
On board diagnostic computers and recorders are permitted. Memory and playback tachometers are allowed.
TRACTION CONTROL:
Not Permitted.
RADIATOR:
An automotive-type radiator is required.
STEERING:
Rack and Pinion allowed on all vehicles.
STREET LEGAL REQUIREMENTS:
All cars are required to have working headlights and tail lights (headlights doors must be fixed open or work manually or automatically on cars so equipped). Brake lights, turn signals are required.
TIRES:
Front tires must have a minimum tread width of 4.5 inches. Front tires do not have to be DOT approved. Rear Tires... Any 275x60x15 Drag Radial Tire
WEIGHT BREAKS:
Weight breaks are determined by the engine combinations and power adders
WEIGHT GUIDE
Base Weight (All weights are race-ready, car with driver)
Small Blocks W/Nitrous........................................... ..........2825 lbs
WEIGHT ADDS & BREAKS:
Add 50 lbs. For Factory Shocks that do not meet the mounting angle guidelines
Add 50 lbs. For any Sheet Metal or Composite Intake Manifold.
Add 50 lbs. For any non Factory Manual Trans (single disc clutch type only)
Add 25 lbs. For Dry Sump Oiling System
Add 50 lbs. For Aluminum Engine Blocks
WHEEL BASE:
Must retain stock wheel base with a maximum variation right to left and front to back of one inch.
WHEELIE BARS:
Wheelie bars are strictly prohibited.
I like these.... I say let the S/C and small turbo guys in and the class will be bigger (more cars) than Drag Radial.
1. .400 Pro Tree heads up racing.
2. Engine and Min weight:
Small block nitrous 347-400ci. - 2800 lbs
400+ - 3100lbs
Small block S/C and Turbo 76mm: 3100 lbs
Small block turbo gt 47/88 mm or Y2K or straight 88, 3400 lbs
3. Fuel: Gasoline ONLY. No alcohol allowed.
4.Supercharger: Pro charger single only, max F1R or smaller, Vortec VSI , X or smaller.
Turbo: single straight 47/88 mm or Y2K
5.Body: All steel with the exception of hood, scoop, deck lid, bumpers. windows must work, Lexan is allowed.
6. Interior: Factory dash and finished interior.
7. Chassis: Stock frame in stock location, stock firewall in stock locations, rear frame may be notched but not
relocated, factory suspensions for make and body of car,any tubular bolt-in K member or front frame permitted
(NO full chassis cars) rack and pinion permitted, ladder bar allowed add 100lbs, No electric shocks, no
wheelie bars.
8. Tire Size: 275/60/15 DOT radial or smaller from any manufacture.
9. Exhaust: All vehicles must be muffled, no collector mufflers.
1. .400 Pro Tree heads up racing.
2. Engine and Min weight:
Small block nitrous 347-400ci. - 2800 lbs
400+ - 3100lbs
Small block S/C and Turbo 76mm: 3100 lbs
Small block turbo gt 47/88 mm or Y2K or straight 88, 3400 lbs
3. Fuel: Gasoline ONLY. No alcohol allowed.
4.Supercharger: Pro charger single only, max F1R or smaller, Vortec VSI , X or smaller.
Turbo: single straight 47/88 mm or Y2K
5.Body: All steel with the exception of hood, scoop, deck lid, bumpers. windows must work, Lexan is allowed.
6. Interior: Factory dash and finished interior.
7. Chassis: Stock frame in stock location, stock firewall in stock locations, rear frame may be notched but not
relocated, factory suspensions for make and body of car,any tubular bolt-in K member or front frame permitted
(NO full chassis cars) rack and pinion permitted, ladder bar allowed add 100lbs, No electric shocks, no
wheelie bars.
8. Tire Size: 275/60/15 DOT radial or smaller from any manufacture.
9. Exhaust: All vehicles must be muffled, no collector mufflers.
I like both sets of rules that you guys posted. I also think that we would have a lot bigger turnout if we let the FI guys run too. I would LOVE to see a nitrous only class but from what I've seen on here I don't think there's enough interest. Well, there is but there is no way to level the laying field enough to make it fair.
Do you think the FI guys would bitch about them being limited and us nitrous guys not?
Do you think the FI guys would bitch about them being limited and us nitrous guys not?
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 1
From: Movin' On Up
Here is the problem plain and simple: In order to have this class (or be able to have a nice field) we need to do 1 of 2 things. Allow the FI guys in and put some serious limits on them--which will more than likely **** them off and they won't show, or ,we will have to slow the class down slightly and make it a pure nitrous class. The big hitters other than Wayne pretty much are not interested in changing setups. That's OK. We just need to change our target audience. We could aim for low 9's to low 10's. This would greatly increase our chances of filling a class.
Here is the problem plain and simple: In order to have this class (or be able to have a nice field) we need to do 1 of 2 things. Allow the FI guys in and put some serious limits on them--which will more than likely **** them off and they won't show, or ,we will have to slow the class down slightly and make it a pure nitrous class. The big hitters other than Wayne pretty much are not interested in changing setups. That's OK. We just need to change our target audience. We could aim for low 9's to low 10's. This would greatly increase our chances of filling a class.
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 1
From: Movin' On Up
I guess that's where we differ. I could give two ***** about showcasing what a nitrous car can do. I care about racing against evenly matched cars and putting ***** phuckers on the trailer. This is a drag race, not an exhibition race.
Who do you plan on showcasing your stuff to?
Who do you plan on showcasing your stuff to?