NXL Trobleshooting..Brains, or Anyone else..
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NXL Trobleshooting..Brains, or Anyone else.. Ok, went to track again last night, and seems to run right at the same power output that my wet kit had, wet 175hp, NXL 180. BUT, after my third or fourth run, had a gas smell. Opened hood and seen fuel leakign out from the Fuel injector o-ring seating into the NXL inj bung on a few cylinders, not pouring or spraying just sitting in a little puddle... The N2O lines at each of the bungs had condensation on them. I am thinking that the N2O may be making the old o-rings to cold, shrinking them and thus causing fuel to leak? It does not do this when running the car normal or racing NA. So,figure its too cold for the old o-rings or maybe the extra pressure from the activation is somehow raising the injectors up, unseating the injectors from the bungs and then leaking.... I like the idea of too cold, other than how do I fix it? New o-rings maybe?
Charlie.
Charlie.
Wow, that's odd.. check over the lines on the leaking nozzles to make sure you don't have one loose. There shouldn't be enough pressure for fuel to leak upwards past that o-ring.. 
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From: Bring it........ b*tch
Originally Posted by CAT3
Ok, went to track again last night, and seems to run right at the same power output that my wet kit had, wet 175hp, NXL 180. BUT, after my third or fourth run, had a gas smell. Opened hood and seen fuel leakign out from the Fuel injector o-ring seating into the NXL inj bung on a few cylinders, not pouring or spraying just sitting in a little puddle... The N2O lines at each of the bungs had condensation on them. I am thinking that the N2O may be making the old o-rings to cold, shrinking them and thus causing fuel to leak? It does not do this when running the car normal or racing NA. So,figure its too cold for the old o-rings or maybe the extra pressure from the activation is somehow raising the injectors up, unseating the injectors from the bungs and then leaking.... I like the idea of too cold, other than how do I fix it? New o-rings maybe?
Charlie.
Charlie.
Did ANY of your O-rings get damaged when you reinstalled them? Did you look them over really well first? I know personally I replaced several of my old ones on reinstall as the instructions were very specific about replacing them even if they had slight damage or cuts to them.
Another possibility is that there is some fuel spraying out of some of the lines that screw into the NXL nozzles because they aren't tight or are damaged somehow and you just noticed the small puddle that gathered where the fuel injector plugs into the NXL nozzle.
About the injectors raising up, did you get the rail mounts good and tight with everything seated? Because if you did I don't see how anything would be raising up. The rings getting cold and contracting sounds like it may be it, but that would be why they need to be in perfect shape upon the reinstall. I know it's a pain, but if you are at all unsure I'd take a look at the injector O-rings and look them over.
Let us know what you find out!
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Well, I can honestly say that I know I scared more than a few of the old o-rings on install. Weird it does not leak on NA runs or normal driving. I checked all the lines, all tight and used sealer on them as well. Rails might be lifting a little, but even so, only on Spray runs, will check that out. Sounds to me like the old o-rings are more susceptible to shrinkage from the N2O. I know the bungs were cold an Alaskan when I checked them.
BTW the o-rings were off my friends inj which had sat, with those little plastic caps for about 2 weeks or so.
Am getting new o-rings, anyone have part #? And will post up the results afterward, it'll be a week though...
BTW the o-rings were off my friends inj which had sat, with those little plastic caps for about 2 weeks or so.
Am getting new o-rings, anyone have part #? And will post up the results afterward, it'll be a week though...
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From: Bring it........ b*tch
Originally Posted by CAT3
Well, I can honestly say that I know I scared more than a few of the old o-rings on install. Weird it does not leak on NA runs or normal driving. I checked all the lines, all tight and used sealer on them as well. Rails might be lifting a little, but even so, only on Spray runs, will check that out. Sounds to me like the old o-rings are more susceptible to shrinkage from the N2O. I know the bungs were cold an Alaskan when I checked them.
BTW the o-rings were off my friends inj which had sat, with those little plastic caps for about 2 weeks or so.
Am getting new o-rings, anyone have part #? And will post up the results afterward, it'll be a week though...
BTW the o-rings were off my friends inj which had sat, with those little plastic caps for about 2 weeks or so.
Am getting new o-rings, anyone have part #? And will post up the results afterward, it'll be a week though...
Hey guys I talked to NX about this problem when I was calling about my rail problems and they said that the nitrous feed would not effect the injector oring. It comes in below the oring and actually causes a vacuum at the injector cause it sucks into the intake. That actually cause the ring to seat harder on the injector. Their possible solutions they gave me were:
1. You possible have a cut oring and it isnt sealing.
2. You dont have the AN fitting going into the NXL bung tight and it is leaking but you only notice it when it puddles cause it only leaks when the fuel solenoid open.
#2 seems like the anwser to me.
Mike
1. You possible have a cut oring and it isnt sealing.
2. You dont have the AN fitting going into the NXL bung tight and it is leaking but you only notice it when it puddles cause it only leaks when the fuel solenoid open.
#2 seems like the anwser to me.
Mike
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Yeah, well, I am sure it is leaking from the Injectors bottom o-ring, possibly the top, but not the nozzle ring. Speakign of which I need to order some of these for the just-in-case times. Went to Checkers, one injector set top and bottom oring kit $4.95 holy ****! And they are much much smaller than the ones on the old injectors. Will pull it off once i find the right o-rings, and stuff.
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From: Bring it........ b*tch
Originally Posted by CAT3
Yeah, well, I am sure it is leaking from the Injectors bottom o-ring, possibly the top, but not the nozzle ring. Speakign of which I need to order some of these for the just-in-case times. Went to Checkers, one injector set top and bottom oring kit $4.95 holy ****! And they are much much smaller than the ones on the old injectors. Will pull it off once i find the right o-rings, and stuff.
They're in the car now and seem to be working just fine. Just an idea....
The sizes for the orings are 9/16"OD 1/8"thickness and 5/16"ID.
They sell them online for like $19 for 1900 of them. I may buy them for $20 then just send them to people that need them if they pay the minimal shipping cost of a stamp.
Or I may just buy less quantity!!hahaha
They sell them online for like $19 for 1900 of them. I may buy them for $20 then just send them to people that need them if they pay the minimal shipping cost of a stamp.
Or I may just buy less quantity!!hahaha
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From: Bring it........ b*tch
Originally Posted by 93LS1RX7
The sizes for the orings are 9/16"OD 1/8"thickness and 5/16"ID.
They sell them online for like $19 for 1900 of them. I may buy them for $20 then just send them to people that need them if they pay the minimal shipping cost of a stamp.
Or I may just buy less quantity!!hahaha
They sell them online for like $19 for 1900 of them. I may buy them for $20 then just send them to people that need them if they pay the minimal shipping cost of a stamp.
Or I may just buy less quantity!!hahaha
Anyway, Mike, did you ask NX about the small openings on the feed lines at all why they are so small? Just curious.
Any info on the hesitation that some people are experiencing?
Yes I asked them about the openings. They said those openings can support up to 400 hp jetting. At that point (actually around 300hp) they say that is the limit for pulling fuel from a shared rail. You would need to go to a seperate fual and nitrous solenoid for more then you could do whatever lines you want.
As far as the hesitation they said it is not from nitrous getting to the chamber before the fuel. It is actually a the split second that it is taking the fuel feed lines to completely fill with fuel and for the nitrous to reach the nxl bungs and turn to a liquid form which is what we need for the burn.
They have a solution for it if you dont want to deal with the slight hesitation and it should be coming out shortly. But like I said it does not hurt the system but is part of the reason the dyno numbers are a little low. The kit is actually putting out the right hp to what they say but the dyno is misreading it. (They explained it better than I am).
I will send you the link tomorrow I have it on my work computer.
I talked to the designer of the NXL and MAF system he is a REALLY GOOD guy and he anwsered a bunch of question/concerns I had.
As far as the hesitation they said it is not from nitrous getting to the chamber before the fuel. It is actually a the split second that it is taking the fuel feed lines to completely fill with fuel and for the nitrous to reach the nxl bungs and turn to a liquid form which is what we need for the burn.
They have a solution for it if you dont want to deal with the slight hesitation and it should be coming out shortly. But like I said it does not hurt the system but is part of the reason the dyno numbers are a little low. The kit is actually putting out the right hp to what they say but the dyno is misreading it. (They explained it better than I am).
I will send you the link tomorrow I have it on my work computer.
I talked to the designer of the NXL and MAF system he is a REALLY GOOD guy and he anwsered a bunch of question/concerns I had.
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Mike, any luck finding a price and availablity (PN if possible) for the bing o-rings? I could call, but figure you are more like our spokesman, one voice is easy to deal with than many, if you dont mind? You can feel free to email me the info, any info you get on this NXL stuff. I appreciate it as well.
Charlie.
Charlie.
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From: Bring it........ b*tch
Originally Posted by 93LS1RX7
They have a solution for it if you dont want to deal with the slight hesitation and it should be coming out shortly. But like I said it does not hurt the system but is part of the reason the dyno numbers are a little low. The kit is actually putting out the right hp to what they say but the dyno is misreading it. (They explained it better than I am).
I will send you the link tomorrow I have it on my work computer.
I talked to the designer of the NXL and MAF system he is a REALLY GOOD guy and he anwsered a bunch of question/concerns I had.
I will send you the link tomorrow I have it on my work computer.
I talked to the designer of the NXL and MAF system he is a REALLY GOOD guy and he anwsered a bunch of question/concerns I had.
Thanks a lot for the info. I'm definately interested in learning more. Do you know if the "solution" they have to the hesitation deal will be involved and/or expensive? Driving the car around with the hesitation isn't that big of a deal, but if the dyno reads inaccurately it could be tough to dial the system in also. I'd like to know exactly what it is putting to the wheels.
Yeah, please be sure to post up the link sometime I really want to check it out.
Thanks!
--Joel
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Joel, do you have a hesitaton all the time or just while spraying? I only have it for the first good use, like a little purge doesnt seem to get it out, but if I cycle it on for a like 3sec during a warm up run it doesnt seem to hesitate, maybe it still does....hummmm must check that one out.
Here is the link for the orings.
http://www.goemerchant7.com/index.cgi?ST=buy&Action=add&Merchant=oringsinc&Ite mNumber=BN70!45203
As far as the hesitation goes it isnt from the nitrous or air in the nitrous lines what so ever.. So purging it doesnt effect it. It is because for a split second the fuel injectors arent getting fuel because the fuel lines are filling with fuel. Basically the car is running on not enough fuel for a millisecond. It doesnt cause the car to go lean but just a millisecond hesitation. Basically if you diconnected you nitrous but still ran the fuel like you were on the spray you would still get the hesatation then it would go pig rich cause the extra fuel without the nitrous but the hesatation would still be there.
The RWHP figures are what NX has stated 80-120-180. They did extensive testing, more than a semi truck worth of nitrous to make sure their jetting did exactly what they stated. Thats why CAT had the same track results as the 175 shot he had before. The dyno is not going to read right with the millisecond hesatation.
Their solution to the hesitation is not complex to install it will just plug into one of the rear rail bungs that you can put the FPSS in or pressure guage. II couldnt get a price for it cause it isnt in production yet so they havent priced it yet but they said it wouldnt be bad.
Mike
http://www.goemerchant7.com/index.cgi?ST=buy&Action=add&Merchant=oringsinc&Ite mNumber=BN70!45203
As far as the hesitation goes it isnt from the nitrous or air in the nitrous lines what so ever.. So purging it doesnt effect it. It is because for a split second the fuel injectors arent getting fuel because the fuel lines are filling with fuel. Basically the car is running on not enough fuel for a millisecond. It doesnt cause the car to go lean but just a millisecond hesitation. Basically if you diconnected you nitrous but still ran the fuel like you were on the spray you would still get the hesatation then it would go pig rich cause the extra fuel without the nitrous but the hesatation would still be there.
The RWHP figures are what NX has stated 80-120-180. They did extensive testing, more than a semi truck worth of nitrous to make sure their jetting did exactly what they stated. Thats why CAT had the same track results as the 175 shot he had before. The dyno is not going to read right with the millisecond hesatation.
Their solution to the hesitation is not complex to install it will just plug into one of the rear rail bungs that you can put the FPSS in or pressure guage. II couldnt get a price for it cause it isnt in production yet so they havent priced it yet but they said it wouldnt be bad.
Mike
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From: Bring it........ b*tch
Originally Posted by 93LS1RX7
Their solution to the hesitation is not complex to install it will just plug into one of the rear rail bungs that you can put the FPSS in or pressure guage. II couldnt get a price for it cause it isnt in production yet so they havent priced it yet but they said it wouldnt be bad.
Mike
Charlie, I actually don't have everything up and running yet (this is my first nitrous system, so I'm waiting for some accessories yet) so I haven't made any runs yet, I was just speaking from the results others such as yourself and BadHabitBird about the hesitation.
I plan on getting my car dyno tuned again for the N20 soon after I get this installed, but I need to be sure of the number the car is putting to the wheels as I will be definately pushing the limits of the stock bottom end with this kit and the 180 jets. I'm already at 440+/411+ RWHP/RWTQ with a 12 bolt running NA right now, so once the NXL is factored in it'll be hovering around the danger zone at 600RWHP which is about all the stock bottom end can take..... I need to be careful so I don't let what happened to Reckless happen to me and shoot a rod out the side of the block.
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Now thats what I am talking about. Pushing the limits, a little juice at a time.
Mike, thanks again for the info. No clue on NX solution, but if I make a run spraying about half way or so, I dont recall having the hesitation anymore, but I will check and let you know.
Mike, thanks again for the info. No clue on NX solution, but if I make a run spraying about half way or so, I dont recall having the hesitation anymore, but I will check and let you know.