Am I missing something, it looks like this is a tune is pulling timing all the time. I would still use the Iat Addvance correction table to pull timing like what the hsw unit does.If you are set against the Hsw box you can use a resistor and relay to do this. That way your na tune doesn't suffer and you can still pull all the timing u need.
If you want to mess with fuel and timing use the coolant sensor and a relay with a resistor to put your coolant sensor(100,000 ohm -40c)(53,000 ohm -30c) reading where you want ,then modify the tables accordingly. Use the power enrichment fuel adder vs coolant temp to add fuel and the ect spark advance correction table to pull timing.

 

it won't pull timing all the time. its only pulling timing when the nitrous is spraying and additional airflow is read (an amount of airflow that is higher than the car will ever see off the bottle). the additional airflow is read either through the MAF when nitrous is sprayed through it, or through something like the HSW Interface which manipulates the MAF's signal to show the higher airflow.

so, if you go driving around and floor the throttle off the bottle, it's going to give you the higher timing in the upper part of the table (lower grams/cylinder values). it is like having two tunes (optimum NA and optimum spray) loaded.

i have the interface, but i still use this same method to pull timing as i feel like it gives me more control to make adjustments to timing at different RPM while spraying.

 

No not true, it does not pull timing all the time, nor does it pull it when N/A. In a nut shell, you log your n/a wot runs. Note the highest MAF freq you see. Log your sprayed run, and you will see that you are above the freq seen n/a. So then you decide what you want pulled from your wot timing and set the boxes above the n/a point to pull timing. All the info is there. Here is the final log from the write up showing 14 degrees total timing, and only in the upper reaches of the MAF. N/A only sees up to 84 g/cyl Mass Air, above that is sprayed only territory. So spraying sees 14 degrees total timing at WOT, and n/a sees up to 25/28 degrees at WOT.

Once you log your sprayed and non sprayed runs, you will see the separation of the two. Actually for most the spray starts around .96 to 1.00, but we dip a little lower for safety, if we want to. So what I am saying is N/A only sees to .84, but spray starts at .96 . Dropping down from the spray start point is a good idea, IMO, but not absolutely mandatory. Staying out of n/a territory is what most want to do, I didn't care if I got in to it a little because I don't race n/a. Hope this cleared things up?
Robert

 

thanks, you explained it better than I, LOL. we must have been typing at the same time.

That's what I have been saying for years "Two Tunes in One", and the reason I love the dry technology. With guys like yourself that actually understand the workings, it is starting to take off more than ever. So many ways to skin the dry cat these days, choices are great though.
Robert

 

Just use EFI Live COS#5 it has nitrous and timing tables in it. No need for cheating or hacking your tune to make something work.

 

How do you tell the pcm to run the nitrous tune using efi live? This would be a cool feature. I had a stage 3 pcm in my Cobalt that you could run a 50 shot. All you had to do was add a wire to the pcm and have the nitrous activate it. It also had a race gas 100 octane tune and adjustable rev limiter.

On a side note....
Don't see how my method is hacking a tune but whatever.

 

Do you mean over using the IAT resistor method of tuning?

The EFI COS 5 is really no different than any of the other sister controllers, or Tuning with HP Tuner. They access and change the exact same tables, however, it is very nice having it built into the tuner program (hopefully, HP Tuner is listening and adds something similar?). You do know that wiring and hacking into the cars system/wiring needs to be done for the trigger to work . This can be a pain in the arz, in and of itself. I haven't done it myself, but Beer did a little how-to and explained things and went on to say that is was not as easy as one would think (maybe someone can find beer and have him link it, for more insight). I thought it to be a breeze, and he corrected me and said, not so. That is the trigger part, the software part wasn't anymore difficult than say setting up HP Tuner, or the Interface, IIRC.

They all take control and trick the computer into doing something it would normally not do. Now with that said, if one has EFI Cos 5 already, yes that is the best and easiest route to take, IMO, so I agree. The HP Tuner timing pull write-up was for guys that may already have the program, not meant to insight going out and buying the program just to be able to tune this way, just another alternative for some. In the beginning, that was really about the only way to pull timing with out a piggy-back controller of some sort, and for the dry hits only.

Robert

 

Yes, I know you do have to add one wire to the pcm. Its not very hard if you take your time and follow the directions from efi. I have dont many cars with COS#5 and never had any problems adding the one wire. I like it because you dont have to cheat your IAT table or timing tables. You will actually have added tables to control your timing and fuel plus all your factory tables.

 

Yea, after thinking about it, IIRC, Beer was like the 1st one to hook it up and there was no info out there at all to help. I am sure it has been sorted out by now and is the breeze I originally thought it should be. I know I would have purchased the EFI Cos 5 had it been out when I bought my HP Tuner program. On the other hand, I am more than happy with HP Tuner, and it has so many capabilities that some are still figuring out things it can do. It's another great option for us nitrous heads no doubt, EFI Live and/or HP Tuner.
Robert

 

i run the 1mb holden pcm in olsd,so no cos#5 for me...
with the iat circuit open during solenoid operation,fuel is added with eq ratio modifiers along with timing retard that changes along with rpm...
as you know,those tables are extremes the engines will not see in normal operation...

doing it this way allows me a motor tune and a n2o tune at the same time,just like that cos#5...

i just started messing with it this week and found out quick,E85 and a dry setup needs quite a lot of injector...
my 57lber's ain't gonna cut it...so back to gasoline for the time being...

just running 1 stage for now until i get a handle on the tune,then cut in the second stage...total shot will not be much as i only ran a 150 shot wet kit before about 4 years now...
i am just curious if i can dial in the 2 stages where i could run both at once or separate depending on how i feel...

 

Yea some of the tables are quite remarkable. I have played around with (will try and remember name as close as possible, but for example close will do, LOL) the Power adder vs IAT table numerous times. It's a table that adds a WOT Fuel Multiplier on top of the existing WOT Power Enrichment Multiplier. So in a nut shell, we add two multipliers together for one richer a/f ratio while spraying only. The table offers different temps to shoot for, or to target. Like 230 degrees, for a turbo/Blower that gets hot and we can add some fuel if it reaches this temp. But on the other hand, they have low extremes we can target, lets say 30 degrees. So with our trusty little IAT tricking mod, we can get to that section of the table and add a multiplier to get what ever a/f ratio we like on the spray. I covered a lot here and just in general, so don't try this at home unless you really understand or problems may arise. We were even using this on a before the MAF style dry hit, with some success. The problem for the most part was getting a consistent cold temp to make sure we hit our target each time. In the end, we decided the IAT tricker would be superior if we went the piggy back multiplier route. Anyway, sounds something like what your doing? when I get time, I will spell this out step by step in a write-up for those that may want there entire tune via HP Tuner Fuel and Timing pull as above. Truly, who tunes in one, where one will not effect the other. (added this to my To-Do list, LOL, which I never really look at, LOL.

I sure wish we had E-85 around here, but we none at all, damn. But like your state, it needs a lot more fuel reaching the cylinders compared to gasoline. The tune really needs to be adjusted at a few parameters. What is it, 30/40% more? or close to that? But in the long run, due to the better octane rating, the E-85 may just be the future of the dry hit, at least where you can get it. Hopefully you can get some injectors and keep us apprised on how to set-up up a Dry E-85 system.

Talking about fueling the dual stage dry, and timing for that matter. Currently I am running redundant InterFace controllers. The accumulative affect works wonderfully. I can have 1-stage, 2-stages or just the second stage. All automatic on the timing and fueling. A great system that has so many adjustable features. Then in each Interface I can change the timing pull by flipping a combo of dip switches. So in my notes (for those that have early onset old timers...) I look at what combo of dip switches allows for targeting XXX temperature in HP Tuner (advanced Interface mode). Then in my HP Tuner I have set-up the target temp to be a true timing curve as one of my dip SW combos. This one is my aggressive tune, I pull max timing at my torque peak, then after-wards I start adding timing back in all the way to red-line. A true custom timing curve. So you can see the combos are endless. Actually, I have a 3rd stage tied into this too, but won't go into that now. I guess my point here is this, we can fuel and time a dual stage really easy with the Interface, and also with other piggy back controllers I am sure (can't think of one currently, but...).

Before the Interface, timing and fuel worked as the accumulative mode a little differently when I had the before the MAF quad nozzles, but again won't go into that now or here (we now run all 3-stages post MAF). But will say it was all tuned with HP Tuner.

We kind of jumped all over the place, but hopefully there was still some usable information to give some ideas on how one may like to approach their dry tune.
Robert

 

i still think COS5 is the only way....

 

Also its easy to wire up the COS5 wire... its so easy a monkey can do it... the only pita part was to find a PCM pin to pin into the pin 56 on the red pcm connector... But I took out my A/C so I disconnected the A/C wire (forgot which one) and i re-used that pcm pin

 

I resemble that remark!

The .50 cent connectors are readly found here
http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/100w.aspx

C-5 guys have it made, for setting up Fuel pressure and nitrous pressure sending units through the unused EGR PCM pinouts (5V power, Ground, Sensor voltage).

 

Beer,

ur no monkey...

 

LOL, I am more like Bigfoot than a Monkey!

Actually Robert, I was more like one of the first ones publically looking for info on it, and posting what I could as I learned. Minitrkr was a big help through PM's and had success with it long before I.

Heres some pics, and screens of some of the menu's. I have only dabbled with this with 50 and 100 shots, but now that I am having to pull my motor, I will have the forged goods and nads to spray some mo healthy shots.

The .50 cent 18 Gauge connectors w/ Soldered wire to em.



Pin 56 on the 99 PCM. Basically take a big *** needle and break that yellow rubber seal, then insert the PCM Connector in, You may have to use the big *** needle to help push the Connector all the way down, but you will hear it snap into place.





COS 5 Menu's



COS 5 Nitrous functions are not tricking the timing using IAT tricks, pretty much if Pin 56 is grounded (and the valet mode parameters are set correctly), it will use Nitrous Timing and VE multipliers.

Below, when the table is active, it pulls timing per the values in the table



Below VE multiplier, here what I was trying to do, was account for the lean spike (caused by fuel pressure drop), and then it richens, so I use the VE multiplier to try and get around the lean spike, then lean out what usually ends up rich in the upper RPM. I have not tried this yet, but will in 2010.

 

Please dont take this the wrong way, as I'm VERY impressed with the knowledge you guys have when it comes to tuning and EFILive/HPTuners. And your understanding of all things nitrous related.

My question is. While using resistors or diodes or what ever, or wiring into the car's PCM, just to tune for the nitrous hit - isnt it easier to just use the HSW Interface? Plug it in - hook up a couple wires to your controller, and you're done... Seems easy to me... But I'm a noob, so I'm still learning...

Thanks

 

In my case, the Interface was not available when I purchased EFI Live (three to four years ago). Being the software was purchased in my case, I could not justify shelving EFI Live and purchasing the interface. Matt and HSW pretty much came out with new cool stuff, right after I purchased what was available at the time (their electronics, their Plate System etc...).

EFI Live is great for logging the runs and wiring into the PCM for logging fuel pressure (using the EGR pinouts) and recording bottle pressure, as well as relay status makes looking at and troubleshooting each run a breeze.

 

yeah, but w/ OLSD the HSW interface is useless , im tuned in OLSD so it wont wrk since i have no MAF

 

I agree, there are still times and places where the old tired and true resistor trick method will still apply. Some guys really like it. I have the info to actually make a homemade box with a built in potentiometer (pot). That way, we can dial in exactly the resistance we want, which in-turn equates to the desired location in what ever table your targeting via temperature. It can be mounted on the dash and can also be labeled/tagged for known spots on the dial that will equal X-amount of timing pulled, or X-amount of fuel added.
Robert