26 degrees, still pull timing?
What do you think is worse for a motor?
1. a split second lean spike, that happens during the converter flash when your racing.
2. a full 1/4 pass on a VERY rich tune up?
More motors have been hurt rich than lean, a rich tune is not a safe tune.
1. a split second lean spike, that happens during the converter flash when your racing.
2. a full 1/4 pass on a VERY rich tune up?
More motors have been hurt rich than lean, a rich tune is not a safe tune.
I talked with the tuner and I asked him why the car was that rich. He said rich is fine. It's lean that gets you into trouble. He said that If he were to lean it out, then the initial lean spike would blow the motor. I even told him ok because you know I'm going to post it in the forums. I hope Brian chimes in...I'm getting concerned. I have C16 in a standalone. I have all the safety equipment thatt you can buy. Also, Brian knows that I'll buy whats needed. I just don't like wasting money. I tried to ask in a thread before I took the car for the tune, "What to expect in a nitrous tune?" I don't know why he let me walk away if its not right because I paid him what he asked and have paid him for several other issues. Chime in people because I'm getting pissed especially since I pulled my plugs and saw oil on one of them.
Some tuners are afraid the owners will blow their engines and tune them pig rich thinking it will protect them. Wrong
The lean spike was from 3200 to 3400 RPM, with 16:1 AFR peak. It wonk hurt your engine, and it may be happening N/A as well.
Of course it can be greatly improved without throwing off your N/A tune. It smells like PE table raping.
This is a wet shot and I have a separate fuel cell with pump. It's HSW 100 pills. Is there anything I can adjust to help. My current fuel pressure is set at 55. I also have a wideband hooked up.
My H/C/I car is running a 11.5:1 CR and on motor im running 28 degrees of timing and on the spray im running 23 degrees and the knock sensors never show a single sign of knock. Thats with pump gas. Im gonna get home from Afghanistan and get it on the dyno and see how much further I can go before it starts knocking. 
I talked with the tuner and I asked him why the car was that rich. He said rich is fine. It's lean that gets you into trouble. He said that If he were to lean it out, then the initial lean spike would blow the motor. I even told him ok because you know I'm going to post it in the forums. I hope Brian chimes in...I'm getting concerned. I have C16 in a standalone. I have all the safety equipment thatt you can buy. Also, Brian knows that I'll buy whats needed. I just don't like wasting money. I tried to ask in a thread before I took the car for the tune, "What to expect in a nitrous tune?" I don't know why he let me walk away if its not right because I paid him what he asked and have paid him for several other issues. Chime in people because I'm getting pissed especially since I pulled my plugs and saw oil on one of them.
First thing I would do is look for a new tuner... That rich is not fine. The initial lean spike will not blow the motor. And he didn't see what timing the engine made the best power at on the spray? What exactly did he do - throw the car on the dyno, make one pull and send you on your way? Hopefully it isn't already hurt...
That is stupid and a good way to break ****! NOT the proper way to tune a nitrous car at all... you start low on the timing and raise it one degree at a time until it stops making more power - back up to the last timing that gave a power increase and leave it there. Any more timing than that puts you closer to buying parts... you don't rely on the knock sensors.
I also launch it at 5000 on 28" slicks at 11 psi with the stock IRS and no brace and upgraded half shafts. Are you going to teach me how to launch now? Maybe you can get my 60' out of the mid 1.4s and into the 1.3's.
Have a good day.
How about a simple answer to this... Its my car and I know it. Its my car and if it blows up it still doesnt affect you in any way outside of maybe a good laugh on my screw up. If it blows then I do a stroker. So when it comes down to it you cant lose. Just me. Why do you care?
I also launch it at 5000 on 28" slicks at 11 psi with the stock IRS and no brace and upgraded half shafts. Are you going to teach me how to launch now? Maybe you can get my 60' out of the mid 1.4s and into the 1.3's.
Have a good day.
I also launch it at 5000 on 28" slicks at 11 psi with the stock IRS and no brace and upgraded half shafts. Are you going to teach me how to launch now? Maybe you can get my 60' out of the mid 1.4s and into the 1.3's.
Have a good day.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Five Reasons the Camaro Was the Most Pivotal Player in the Pony Car Wars 2.0
Brett Foote
10 Reasons the LS7 Is GM's Most Extreme Naturally Aspirated V8 Engine Ever
Verdad Gallardo
Ls1tech & Truck Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 1
From: Wichita falls Texas
Your setup should be easy to tune and setup. No point in letting a few guru's tear up YOUR motor. Hoping to hear from you.
Graham @ NX
Just got off phone with brian. He explained that my NA tune was spot on for my 243/cheatr cam combo. I have 116 in a 55psi standalone on a 100 shot. He said that the pill size basically determines how much fuel will be sprayed in a wet kit. Therefore, he set the NA tune to be spot on, and, the pills basically spray what they spray,(which wouldn't be his fault). He is going to explain later.
Just got off phone with brian. He explained that my NA tune was spot on for my 243/cheatr cam combo. I have 116 in a 55psi standalone on a 100 shot. He said that the pill size basically determines how much fuel will be sprayed in a wet kit. Therefore, he set the NA tune to be spot on, and, the pills basically spray what they spray,(which wouldn't be his fault). He is going to explain later.
if it's running as rich as your wideband says it is, then the jetting or fuel pressure (maybe both) need to be adjusted
ok... here we go.
For starters, any of you who can determine my tuning abilities or know the complete situtation just by looking at ONE dyno run. I need to hire you. That ability would be priceless.
As you can see by the two runs posted, the NA run is spot on. And all of you should know that a pill has a hole in it, that hole size doesnt change. I have no way to correct fueling that changes during the course of a WOT pass.(unless some of you know where I can buy some electronically controlled variable jets.) Everyone is soooo quick to blame a tuner. Did anyone stop to think about the other variables that control fueling when the jet is a constant? Bottle pressure, fuel pressure through the solenoid,timing, weather conditions that effect timing.
I looked at a couple of other runs on the dyno before I left the shop today. Would you believe there is another run that does the opposite? It starts out rich then get leaner through the run.
I'll be happy to correct the nitrous fueling changes in the computer, but I don't think my customer will like the portions of a N/A run that are 15:1
All i'm saying is.... don't be so quick to jump the gun without knowing all of the information at hand.
Thoughts, input?
Thanks,
Brian
For starters, any of you who can determine my tuning abilities or know the complete situtation just by looking at ONE dyno run. I need to hire you. That ability would be priceless.
As you can see by the two runs posted, the NA run is spot on. And all of you should know that a pill has a hole in it, that hole size doesnt change. I have no way to correct fueling that changes during the course of a WOT pass.(unless some of you know where I can buy some electronically controlled variable jets.) Everyone is soooo quick to blame a tuner. Did anyone stop to think about the other variables that control fueling when the jet is a constant? Bottle pressure, fuel pressure through the solenoid,timing, weather conditions that effect timing.
I looked at a couple of other runs on the dyno before I left the shop today. Would you believe there is another run that does the opposite? It starts out rich then get leaner through the run.
I'll be happy to correct the nitrous fueling changes in the computer, but I don't think my customer will like the portions of a N/A run that are 15:1
All i'm saying is.... don't be so quick to jump the gun without knowing all of the information at hand.
Thoughts, input?
Thanks,
Brian
It's easy to tell from that one dyno pull that it isn't right... All I'm saying is that if that was the final pull and the customer was sent away with that being his final nitrous tuneup (kind of hard to tell from his description of what is going on here), then that is messed up... If there is something wrong with the kit, and it is all over the place with the fueling (rich one pull, lean the next), then someone needs to figure it out. But that isn't what he came in here asking about.
Yes, jets have a hole in them that doesn't change... that's why we change jets to get a leaner or richer mixture. Overly rich is not fine or safe...
If there is more to the story, the OP didn't give that info. And actually, you didn't really give any futher info either...
I understand that some people do thier own work and come to a tuner only wanting to pay for computer changes and dyno time (I've had plenty of them)... then on the first pull on the dyno, the setup is pig rich (and what do you know, they don't have any other jets than what came in the kit) or they have something messed up with thier wiring or other hardware - but at least they are sent away with being told that they have to fix the problem or buy more jets before the car can be properly tuned...
From what it sounded like, the install of the nitrous system and the tuning was done as a package... was the dyno pull posted above the final tuneup, or were their problems with the setup that needed to be fixed?
Yes, jets have a hole in them that doesn't change... that's why we change jets to get a leaner or richer mixture. Overly rich is not fine or safe...
If there is more to the story, the OP didn't give that info. And actually, you didn't really give any futher info either...
I understand that some people do thier own work and come to a tuner only wanting to pay for computer changes and dyno time (I've had plenty of them)... then on the first pull on the dyno, the setup is pig rich (and what do you know, they don't have any other jets than what came in the kit) or they have something messed up with thier wiring or other hardware - but at least they are sent away with being told that they have to fix the problem or buy more jets before the car can be properly tuned...
From what it sounded like, the install of the nitrous system and the tuning was done as a package... was the dyno pull posted above the final tuneup, or were their problems with the setup that needed to be fixed?
I think your customer is very confused.
He first asked about ignition timing for a H/C engine, Then for 100 shot and a 150 shot
Said his wideband reads 9.3 AFR (Has HPTuners and pays tunning services)
Then the plugs had black spots...
Then attached a dyno sheet with AFR 10:1 and said it was the dyno pull when his car was tuned.
Later he tells us his tuner said it can't be fixed and rich is fine
After that, he says one plug has oil
The dyno pull shows 10:1 AFR from 4800 to 5400 RPM, then it leans to 18:1 AFR from 5500 to the end of pull.
We can't know what's wrong, But it can be fixed.
Nobody can fix the guy's car over the internet, so what everybody said is an opinion, nothing more.
He first asked about ignition timing for a H/C engine, Then for 100 shot and a 150 shot
Said his wideband reads 9.3 AFR (Has HPTuners and pays tunning services
)Then the plugs had black spots...
Then attached a dyno sheet with AFR 10:1 and said it was the dyno pull when his car was tuned.
Later he tells us his tuner said it can't be fixed and rich is fine
After that, he says one plug has oil
The dyno pull shows 10:1 AFR from 4800 to 5400 RPM, then it leans to 18:1 AFR from 5500 to the end of pull.
We can't know what's wrong, But it can be fixed.
Nobody can fix the guy's car over the internet, so what everybody said is an opinion, nothing more.
Ls1tech & Truck Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,267
Likes: 1
From: Wichita falls Texas
I have talked with Brian. Heres some more information.
That pass was not the last time the car was on the dyno. The customer was aware of what was going on. The NA pull as can be seen is very clean. So the actual tune is not the issue. Brian is going to post a graph Shortly with another Nitrous pull showing it going rich and then lean. Clearly this is not in the tune.
Im going to talk with the OP as far as what all has gone on with the nitrous kit itself, aswell as the tune up for the nitrous ( Bottle Pressure, Plugs, etc. )
This thread has a largely scued idea of perspective. I think after I call Doc (OP) we can have a resolution to this ordeal.
That pass was not the last time the car was on the dyno. The customer was aware of what was going on. The NA pull as can be seen is very clean. So the actual tune is not the issue. Brian is going to post a graph Shortly with another Nitrous pull showing it going rich and then lean. Clearly this is not in the tune.
Im going to talk with the OP as far as what all has gone on with the nitrous kit itself, aswell as the tune up for the nitrous ( Bottle Pressure, Plugs, etc. )
This thread has a largely scued idea of perspective. I think after I call Doc (OP) we can have a resolution to this ordeal.
This kit was not sold or installed by me. Matter of fact I happen to know this kit has been installed and reworked a couple of times by the customer and another local shop.
Where it leans way out in the run..... it's obvious the sensor came out of the exhaust. This was a year ago.
Here is an overlayed graph. Please let me know where I can get those electronically controlled variable jets
Where it leans way out in the run..... it's obvious the sensor came out of the exhaust. This was a year ago.
Here is an overlayed graph. Please let me know where I can get those electronically controlled variable jets