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iTrader: (2)

I have a 98 Z28 thats a H/C/I/E car. I got EFI Live and worked about a week using the CALC.VET tutorial and got my MAF,VE, and shift points dialed in.

Car came with a tune in it and I had no prior knowledge.

Nitrous setup:
Single NX Nozzle
65/33 100 Jets
FPSS
FJO Progressive Controller
Bottle Warmer
Large NX Solenoids
MSD Timing Twister

Before I got EFI Live or the Timing twister to pull timing, I just added a couple gallons of 112 and made 20 or so bottle passes with no problems.

First pass out on 93 octane and pulling 6* with the MSD box it detonated going in 2 >3. Origionally I thought it blew through the convertor and hit the rev limiter so thats when I bought EFI Live.

ANYWAY-
Went to the track last Fri night with my new motor tune.
#1 Pass 1.70 7.80 12.30 (This is about what it ran on the orig tune)
#2 Pass - Sprayed in 1 and half into second (grudge race) and went 12.0
#3 Pass- Another grudge race and I was gonna spray the whole 1/4 mile.

Car got out about 50 feet and boom, pop, boom etc. I let turned the kit off but it still was popping all the way down the track (Limping of course).


So after looking at the logs and digging in the tune, I think the problem is definately in my Spark tables. Whoever tuned it desentizised the knock sensors and had it where the computer wouldnt pull time. Plus the last half of the timing table was all set to 28 degrees.

I should have looked at that table, but I really didn't plan on spraying that night.

Would anyone mind looking at the log and tune I have?

Also- I don't think the MSD timing twister will show up retarted timing in the EFI PIDS I was logging but I need to verify this.


This time I ended up damaging #1 cyl/valvetrain because its ticking pretty bad. Still has good oil pressure and isn't smoking. Had to drive it 60 miles back home so I hope its a pushrod but wont know until I tear into it.

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iTrader: (2)

Here is the .tun and log file.

YOutube video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsXSWojH0Io

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iTrader: (2)

Screenshot of the timing table.

I had MSD timing twister to pull 4* and was on 10% ethanol 93 octane which I setup the stoich up for in the efilive tune.


Looking back now at the high octane spark table, I'm guessing the orig tuner had it setup as an agressive motor tune. If you look at this log *motor only*, it even had some KR pulling in 3rd.

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

I actually sprayed off the line and half into second in this log and it didnt backfire of give me any problems. This would be pass #2 of the night.

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

If the PCM section is more appropriate let me know.

Thanks guys for any input. I'm sure it detonated because of too much timing?????

Graham@NitrousOutlet

I dont get what the question is?

It was knocking on motor. You sprayed it. It detonated.

White Shadow

I don't know why but I laughed out loud at this post.

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

Did you look at the log? It showed some knock at high RPM in 3rd gear.

I made 20-30 passes before getting EFILive to log with no problems ( Couldnt log knock). This was with the timing maps in the tune file and adding a little race gas to whatever pump gas that was in the car.

I added the MSD timing box, pulled 4 degrees on pump gas. Made once pass on this tune up spraying from the line half into second with no problems. (Again - didnt have EFILive at this point)

3rd pass it went boom a few cars out.

I did some comparisions of stock 98 spark high octane tables (B5913), vs my current tune table (B5913), then compared the change in a table, then in another table calculating -4 degrees that the MSD timing twister should have pulled.


I understand the car went lean.

But why on the 3rd pass off the line vs. the 2nd pass when I sprayed off the line well into 2nd.

camscam02

iTrader: (21)

65 nitrous jet is a little more than a 150 hp shot as well.

Have a tune for the nitrous itself so you know it's pulling timing. And don't tune off the knock sensors

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

2nd pass spraying off line and into second with no problems. Same tune up.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlNwYxbYoxc

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iTrader: (2)

misprint from memory on my part. I had the 52/33 in it.

Had to get my jet pack out to check. Since I have to tear the driver side down anyway to find the tick, I'm gonna pull the MSD box off and make some tune files with nitrous retarded timing like you mentioned.

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

for the nitrous tunes, I dont see why I couldnt just paste stock timing tables from a 98 and select cells that I want to take timing away from. -4* for 100 and -6* for 150 then tune from their using efilive and plugs.

I'm just wanting to make sure it was my timing that caused the issue.

camscam02

iTrader: (21)

Thats the way to do it. Save your current motor tune, and then take 4 degrees away from say 3000 to 7000 and .60 and above and save as your nitrous tune for x amount of shot. Copy that to both low and high octane timing and upload.

55 33 is not gonna be lean by the way. it will be pretty rich and overtimed since it had 28 degrees in it. what plugs are in it? what was bottle pressure at? how much nitrous was in the bottle?

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

Cool... once I get it back running, MSD is coming off and I'll make my own nitrous tunes. If the MSD box worked correctly and pulled 4* it would have had 24 degrees in it (Last table in the .pdf is what timing should have been).

Bottle has a warmer on it, and it was 1150 and about 3/4 full.

TR7 plugs.

I guess the MSD didnt work and it just detonated?? I had a good motor tune in it with a safe AF.

Weird thing is that I sprayed off the line and a little in second the pass before.

Then the pass when it damaged #1, it didn't get out very far before it popped.

3fingas

iTrader: (16)

If you run efilive, why not try cos5 to pull timing

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iTrader: (2)

Because I have the 98 PCM and can't run a custom operating system. I got the msd box and had it on the car several months before getting efilive.

I could do an 02 PCM swap but just dont feel like doing all the repinning/fuel stuff. Plus cost for more liscense for efilive. I would like to have the RTACS though.

Since I cant log/verify that the MSD box is pulling timing, I'm just gonna take it off and sell it. Then make nitrous tunes in EFILive with timing pulled. Just upload them when I get to the track.

PACKETFOCUS

iTrader: (2)

I'm have been going back over my logs several times in EFILive.

My car has been 24 degrees timing in first and second, then ramps up to 28 in third on motor with 2-4 degrees KR. But It hasn't tried to put that much timing in 1-2.

So I attached a picture of my log with the section marked when it went lean and popped.

I was 24 degrees timing when the wet kit came on at WOT. Same tune up was the pass before and it ran fine first/second. But the in the third pass and log below, it went lean around the top of first and popped.

If the MSD Timing twister worked, it would have actually been at 20 degrees timing when the kit came on.

The more I think about it, I can't rule out failure of the nitrous system itself.
My buddy told me the fuel solenoid was hot when I got back to the pits? Maybe the plunger got stuck or something and malfunctioned??

At this point the LC1 also freaked out and went into sensor 8 timing error based on the logs.

Graham@NitrousOutlet

Hey I have been reading a few of your posts here and on bullet. Hard to get whats going on from them. If you want we can talk over the phone and try and get an idea of where this deal went wrong.

Firehawk441

iTrader: (41)

Keep running that bottle pressure and you'll have an entirerly new issue.

Frozen WS6

^^ exactly.

Also efi live may not be logging the timing retard that the msd box is pulling.

Recently, they added the (PID) ability to log the lingenfelter Lnc 002 box. So this one is logged now.