Plug Help, please check these out.... Plate kit
Plug Help, please check these out.... Plate kit The plugs are from passes made this past weekend at TNT. Jetting is in the pic, and timing for all runs at 17.5* bottle pressure is 900lbs for each run and da was roughly +800. I feel like this is a good start from where I am at, but would like to hear from Shiz, cam, carter atv and others with experience on where to go from here.
* 90mm HSW Plate, pulling fuel off the rail.
1st pass plug #1
1st pass plug #7
2nd pass plug #1
3rd pass #1
I only posted pics of cyl #1 as seems that 1 & 2 always seem to be the leanest for me?? I know most find that 7 & 8 are their leanest, but for reference I posted a pic of #7 from the 1st pass.
I didn't make any changes for the 3 passes as I was chasing the track cause prep was crap and car would not hook.
Thanks for all your help!
* 90mm HSW Plate, pulling fuel off the rail.
1st pass plug #1
1st pass plug #7
2nd pass plug #1
3rd pass #1
I only posted pics of cyl #1 as seems that 1 & 2 always seem to be the leanest for me?? I know most find that 7 & 8 are their leanest, but for reference I posted a pic of #7 from the 1st pass.
I didn't make any changes for the 3 passes as I was chasing the track cause prep was crap and car would not hook.
Thanks for all your help!
Last edited by Sofls1; Dec 18, 2011 at 05:01 PM.
Tune up looks close to me. You really need to get the car hooking for best words of advice. The reason i say this is the load needs to be similar per pass to get back to back data and we need to know the slip breakdowns. If what I'm seeing is a correct timing mark it could use a degree more but only if you are picking up mph. Fuel looks real close to me. I look at slips just as much as plugs....
Can you post any more data?
Can you post any more data?
Tune up looks close to me. You really need to get the car hooking for best words of advice. The reason i say this is the load needs to be similar per pass to get back to back data and we need to know the slip breakdowns. If what I'm seeing is a correct timing mark it could use a degree more but only if you are picking up mph. Fuel looks real close to me. I look at slips just as much as plugs....
Can you post any more data?
Can you post any more data?
As far as more data I have a ton, I log every pass with Hp Tuners and keep all my time slips etc, whatever you need, just ask.
All four time slips below: marked in order of the pass. The car has been as fast as 10.33 @ 130.50 and 60ft has been as fast as 1.431 (spinning slightly). Since then I have added a BMR K member; and I started using a lower bottle pressure 1050lbs to 900lbs and went from a .038 fuel jet to .036.
Rest of mods are:
Ported fast 90
243 heads off TBSS not ported
.222/.230 .596/.598 114+2 EPS cam
1 7/8" hooker headers and single 4" exhaust no cutout
Yank SS3600 stall
FLT 460e lev 5
Strange 12 bolt w 3.42 gear
Usual suspension mods: ie UMI Drag bar, spohn tq arm and lcas w brackets, strange coil overs up front with 300# springs.
Car weighs roughly 3500lbs with me at race weight.
* runs made on VP MS103 unleaded.
I have a video from the 10.33 pass that I can post but its a lil shaky lol.
Let me know if you need anything else.
Last edited by Sofls1; Dec 18, 2011 at 10:37 PM.
I'm with carter01 on the timing. It looks like it's all the way on the tip of the strap so as he said add a degree and keep it only if it picks up mph. If it doesn't take it back out. Although once you get it to hook the load could change just enough to where that 17.5* is just perfect once you find the sweet spot on the launch. I'd be willing to bet if you get your 60' in the low 1.30 range you will go 9.90.
BTW I'm guessing you have a wideband your logging with, what's the air fuel like during the run? Fuel ring looks pretty clean.
BTW I'm guessing you have a wideband your logging with, what's the air fuel like during the run? Fuel ring looks pretty clean.
I'm with carter01 on the timing. It looks like it's all the way on the tip of the strap so as he said add a degree and keep it only if it picks up mph. If it doesn't take it back out. Although once you get it to hook the load could change just enough to where that 17.5* is just perfect once you find the sweet spot on the launch. I'd be willing to bet if you get your 60' in the low 1.30 range you will go 9.90.
BTW I'm guessing you have a wideband your logging with, what's the air fuel like during the run? Fuel ring looks pretty clean.
BTW I'm guessing you have a wideband your logging with, what's the air fuel like during the run? Fuel ring looks pretty clean.
As far as a low 1.30 60ft, I think I will need more converter for that. That's gonna be hard to pull of without a transbrake and a ss3600. That will probably be the next thing I address once I get a good clean pass and the tune up right the way the car is.
As for the wideband, I did log it, but didn't even really look at that. I was more focused on the plug readings. I have to go back and review my logs.
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Looking at your pics I would say 1 is deffintly leaner than 7.
Personally I like a little more color on the plug. Number 7 is right around what I like to see but a tad more color.
As for the timing mark, In your second pic the over all top of the plug looks alittle dark. That could be due to many things.
1. Old plug with to much idle time.
2. Did not immidiatly get put in neutral and shut off.
3. Idle is to rich loading up plug and then its trying to clean the plug down the track.
In this pic you see what looks to be a good timing mark. I would take my thumb and whipe it and look to see where the heat color changes on the strap. If its in the same way odds are you can add alittle timing.
Once you get the plugs to look where you want them. I usually go one more step in the tuning process.
First. I add alittle fuel. If the car pics up it wanted the fuel. If it dont I take the fuel back out.
Second. I take out 2 dgrees of timing. If the car pics up I keep taking timing out until it slows down. Then I go back to the last setting.
I never go leaner or more aggressive on the timing to see what the results are once I have the plug looking the way I want. Its just not worth the risk to me.
Everyone has there own methods. These are mine.
Dave
Personally I like a little more color on the plug. Number 7 is right around what I like to see but a tad more color.
As for the timing mark, In your second pic the over all top of the plug looks alittle dark. That could be due to many things.
1. Old plug with to much idle time.
2. Did not immidiatly get put in neutral and shut off.
3. Idle is to rich loading up plug and then its trying to clean the plug down the track.
In this pic you see what looks to be a good timing mark. I would take my thumb and whipe it and look to see where the heat color changes on the strap. If its in the same way odds are you can add alittle timing.
Once you get the plugs to look where you want them. I usually go one more step in the tuning process.
First. I add alittle fuel. If the car pics up it wanted the fuel. If it dont I take the fuel back out.
Second. I take out 2 dgrees of timing. If the car pics up I keep taking timing out until it slows down. Then I go back to the last setting.
I never go leaner or more aggressive on the timing to see what the results are once I have the plug looking the way I want. Its just not worth the risk to me.
Everyone has there own methods. These are mine.
Dave
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Verdad Gallardo Looking at your pics I would say 1 is deffintly leaner than 7.
Personally I like a little more color on the plug. Number 7 is right around what I like to see but a tad more color.
As for the timing mark, In your second pic the over all top of the plug looks alittle dark. That could be due to many things.
1. Old plug with to much idle time.
2. Did not immidiatly get put in neutral and shut off.
3. Idle is to rich loading up plug and then its trying to clean the plug down the track.
In this pic you see what looks to be a good timing mark. I would take my thumb and whipe it and look to see where the heat color changes on the strap. If its in the same way odds are you can add alittle timing.
Once you get the plugs to look where you want them. I usually go one more step in the tuning process.
First. I add alittle fuel. If the car pics up it wanted the fuel. If it dont I take the fuel back out.
Second. I take out 2 dgrees of timing. If the car pics up I keep taking timing out until it slows down. Then I go back to the last setting.
I never go leaner or more aggressive on the timing to see what the results are once I have the plug looking the way I want. Its just not worth the risk to me.
Everyone has there own methods. These are mine.
Dave
Personally I like a little more color on the plug. Number 7 is right around what I like to see but a tad more color.
As for the timing mark, In your second pic the over all top of the plug looks alittle dark. That could be due to many things.
1. Old plug with to much idle time.
2. Did not immidiatly get put in neutral and shut off.
3. Idle is to rich loading up plug and then its trying to clean the plug down the track.
In this pic you see what looks to be a good timing mark. I would take my thumb and whipe it and look to see where the heat color changes on the strap. If its in the same way odds are you can add alittle timing.
Once you get the plugs to look where you want them. I usually go one more step in the tuning process.
First. I add alittle fuel. If the car pics up it wanted the fuel. If it dont I take the fuel back out.
Second. I take out 2 dgrees of timing. If the car pics up I keep taking timing out until it slows down. Then I go back to the last setting.
I never go leaner or more aggressive on the timing to see what the results are once I have the plug looking the way I want. Its just not worth the risk to me.
Everyone has there own methods. These are mine.
Dave
I went ahead and wiped the plug as you instructed. That provided a much clearer line on the electrode. Without providing pics, the timing line on the electrode on the plugs is a bit closer to the tip on the passes with the better 60 ft.
My plan for the next outing is to take Carter's and your advice. If the car hooks, then I will check the plugs and if they look similar, Ill use the method you outlined above. If it doesn't, then I'll leave it alone til I get the car to hook.
Carter has done a great job working through his tune ups. He was asking the same questions you are earlier this year and look at his achievements. The key is to take your time and make smart level headed decisions. Ask questions along the way.
If I were you I would search carters post history. Just simply reading what he asked and the discussions in his thread would be great knowledge for you.
You can always ask me any questions you have as well.
Dave
If I were you I would search carters post history. Just simply reading what he asked and the discussions in his thread would be great knowledge for you.
You can always ask me any questions you have as well.
Dave
They've got you going in a great direction! My main point would be: when you think you have the tune up close. Make one small change and see what the timeslip says. That will be the tell all
I haven't gone any further with the timing in the past couple outings as I have been focusing on the 60ft. I made some changes that I though would get the car to fully hook prior to this past outing but unfortunately the track was just not there (everyone was spinning, it wasn't just me, although that doesn't mean my setup was perfect either). I was hoping that I would have had that worked out, but it wasn't. I do believe that the changes I made on the fuel side and bottle pressure were in the right direction, so I wanted to see what some experienced peeps had to say before I made any other changes to the tune up.
As far as a low 1.30 60ft, I think I will need more converter for that. That's gonna be hard to pull of without a transbrake and a ss3600. That will probably be the next thing I address once I get a good clean pass and the tune up right the way the car is.
As for the wideband, I did log it, but didn't even really look at that. I was more focused on the plug readings. I have to go back and review my logs.
As far as a low 1.30 60ft, I think I will need more converter for that. That's gonna be hard to pull of without a transbrake and a ss3600. That will probably be the next thing I address once I get a good clean pass and the tune up right the way the car is.
As for the wideband, I did log it, but didn't even really look at that. I was more focused on the plug readings. I have to go back and review my logs.
AFR isn't the end all be all especially when your tuning with nitrous (I am no expert by any means), but it can be a good reference once you know what the plug looks like to have it stored somewhere for the future. I have a log book I write all my suspension adjustments down in and the air pressure, burnout length, launch rpm, and weather so I can go to a known setting that I know works if need be.
Last edited by Fbodyjunkie06; Dec 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM.
the glare makes it hard to see the top of the barrel. is that new metal shiney or white looking down at it. looks like shiney. it looks like its rainbowing some if so maybe go 1 step colder. 1 looks leaner but not in a bad way.
I would put an 8 or 9 in it. if the rainbow goes away then try adding .5 degree while watching the fuel to not get much leaner . if it leans up to much on 1 put a little fuel in . if it picks up mph than keep going .5 at a time until it stops responding. looks to me # 1 would take 1-2 more timming and will need a hair more fuel if it takes the timming. but 7 looks like .5-1 on timing but with all that fuel it could be masking some timming.
you will have to timming tune from 7. dont tune from which is leaner tune from which is hotter. with a direct port i would take 1 jet out of 7 and then put 1 degree in and i think it would pick up.
I would put an 8 or 9 in it. if the rainbow goes away then try adding .5 degree while watching the fuel to not get much leaner . if it leans up to much on 1 put a little fuel in . if it picks up mph than keep going .5 at a time until it stops responding. looks to me # 1 would take 1-2 more timming and will need a hair more fuel if it takes the timming. but 7 looks like .5-1 on timing but with all that fuel it could be masking some timming.
you will have to timming tune from 7. dont tune from which is leaner tune from which is hotter. with a direct port i would take 1 jet out of 7 and then put 1 degree in and i think it would pick up.
the glare makes it hard to see the top of the barrel. is that new metal shiney or white looking down at it. looks like shiney. it looks like its rainbowing some if so maybe go 1 step colder. 1 looks leaner but not in a bad way.
I would put an 8 or 9 in it. if the rainbow goes away then try adding .5 degree while watching the fuel to not get much leaner . if it leans up to much on 1 put a little fuel in . if it picks up mph than keep going .5 at a time until it stops responding. looks to me # 1 would take 1-2 more timming and will need a hair more fuel if it takes the timming. but 7 looks like .5-1 on timing but with all that fuel it could be masking some timming.
you will have to timming tune from 7. dont tune from which is leaner tune from which is hotter. with a direct port i would take 1 jet out of 7 and then put 1 degree in and i think it would pick up.
I would put an 8 or 9 in it. if the rainbow goes away then try adding .5 degree while watching the fuel to not get much leaner . if it leans up to much on 1 put a little fuel in . if it picks up mph than keep going .5 at a time until it stops responding. looks to me # 1 would take 1-2 more timming and will need a hair more fuel if it takes the timming. but 7 looks like .5-1 on timing but with all that fuel it could be masking some timming.
you will have to timming tune from 7. dont tune from which is leaner tune from which is hotter. with a direct port i would take 1 jet out of 7 and then put 1 degree in and i think it would pick up.
the strap was white, and the barrel shiny with a little white near the strap. When you say rainbow, do you mean where the barrel starts to look purple-ish?
When you say don't tune for leaner, tune for hotter; Does this mean tune the cylinder in which the heat range of the plug looks the hottest?
I will definitely pick up some 8's for the next track outing.
Last edited by Sofls1; Dec 23, 2011 at 04:27 PM.
Tune off the cyl with the most heat on the strap(hotest) or timing mark closest to the bend. keep when running a plate out front without any way to individual cyl adjust you have to tune from hot. that means the front will probably be a hair under timed and possibly rich. but better than the back cyl being over timed.