How much nitrous can a forged - stock cubed - iron block handle???
07-05-2012, 11:39 PM
#1
How much nitrous can a forged - stock cubed - iron block handle??? My friend is becoming a member here as soon as he gets back from killing terrorists.........lol........I told him I'd ask this for him.
Engine that is built specifically for nitrous.......
1999 Trans Am. 4L80E
He bought a 6.0L iron block LQ9 and is ordering a forged rotating assembly. He's gonna use thick deck heads, just not sure which yet, ARP head studs and all the good supporting stuff, etc, etc....
How much nitrous can it handle?
What type of set-up?
Dual?
Progressive?
DP with stand alone and race gas?
....say spraying it 3-4 times a week. HIGHWAY RUNS ONLY. No drag racing at a track.
He'd like to make 850 RWHP on spray.
WILL IT HANDLE A 400 shot????????? Say a dual stage 400 (200/200)?
Thanks.
.
Engine that is built specifically for nitrous.......
1999 Trans Am. 4L80E
He bought a 6.0L iron block LQ9 and is ordering a forged rotating assembly. He's gonna use thick deck heads, just not sure which yet, ARP head studs and all the good supporting stuff, etc, etc....
How much nitrous can it handle?
What type of set-up?
Dual?
Progressive?
DP with stand alone and race gas?
....say spraying it 3-4 times a week. HIGHWAY RUNS ONLY. No drag racing at a track.
He'd like to make 850 RWHP on spray.
WILL IT HANDLE A 400 shot????????? Say a dual stage 400 (200/200)?
Thanks.
.
Last edited by LS6427; 07-06-2012 at 11:09 AM.
07-06-2012, 11:08 AM
#7
Don't know....but whatever piston is good for giant shots, thats what will go in it.
Man....maybe I just should have asked in my original post....if the engine is built for a giant shot.......how much can it handle......? LOL
He wants 850 RWHP on spray........so will a 400 shot be too much? Because I'm assuming a stock cubed H/C engine with a medium sized cam will make about 425-450 RWHP N/A....
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Man....maybe I just should have asked in my original post....if the engine is built for a giant shot.......how much can it handle......? LOL
He wants 850 RWHP on spray........so will a 400 shot be too much? Because I'm assuming a stock cubed H/C engine with a medium sized cam will make about 425-450 RWHP N/A....
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07-06-2012, 11:20 AM
#8
I think you will begin to see diminishing returns in going up in jet sizes on a stock cubed motor before you hurt anything block wise.
The tune will have to be SPOT on for that big of a shot and honestly most engine builders aside from a certain few nitrous specific builders will know what kind of a cam to put in a motor like that to be able to continue to respond to that large of a shot and be able to get the heat and nitrous out of the chamber.
Honestly when your dealing with a motor that small there really is a point where just stuffing it with jet isn't going to do anything but make it eat plugs.
Hell ATV racer and Shiz had a bad *** newest of the new parts in 2005-2006 for the pump gas drags with a 396 cubed motor and the best PI heads that Cary had to offer at the time with a lot of top secret squirrel **** done to them to even be able to ingest that amount of nitrous, respond to that amount of nitrous, and live with that amount of nitrous.
A 346 can only consume so much air no matter the cam, heads, intake etc.
The tune will have to be SPOT on for that big of a shot and honestly most engine builders aside from a certain few nitrous specific builders will know what kind of a cam to put in a motor like that to be able to continue to respond to that large of a shot and be able to get the heat and nitrous out of the chamber.
Honestly when your dealing with a motor that small there really is a point where just stuffing it with jet isn't going to do anything but make it eat plugs.
Hell ATV racer and Shiz had a bad *** newest of the new parts in 2005-2006 for the pump gas drags with a 396 cubed motor and the best PI heads that Cary had to offer at the time with a lot of top secret squirrel **** done to them to even be able to ingest that amount of nitrous, respond to that amount of nitrous, and live with that amount of nitrous.
A 346 can only consume so much air no matter the cam, heads, intake etc.
07-06-2012, 12:53 PM
#9
I think you will begin to see diminishing returns in going up in jet sizes on a stock cubed motor before you hurt anything block wise.
The tune will have to be SPOT on for that big of a shot and honestly most engine builders aside from a certain few nitrous specific builders will know what kind of a cam to put in a motor like that to be able to continue to respond to that large of a shot and be able to get the heat and nitrous out of the chamber.
Honestly when your dealing with a motor that small there really is a point where just stuffing it with jet isn't going to do anything but make it eat plugs.
Hell ATV racer and Shiz had a bad *** newest of the new parts in 2005-2006 for the pump gas drags with a 396 cubed motor and the best PI heads that Cary had to offer at the time with a lot of top secret squirrel **** done to them to even be able to ingest that amount of nitrous, respond to that amount of nitrous, and live with that amount of nitrous.
A 346 can only consume so much air no matter the cam, heads, intake etc.
The tune will have to be SPOT on for that big of a shot and honestly most engine builders aside from a certain few nitrous specific builders will know what kind of a cam to put in a motor like that to be able to continue to respond to that large of a shot and be able to get the heat and nitrous out of the chamber.
Honestly when your dealing with a motor that small there really is a point where just stuffing it with jet isn't going to do anything but make it eat plugs.
Hell ATV racer and Shiz had a bad *** newest of the new parts in 2005-2006 for the pump gas drags with a 396 cubed motor and the best PI heads that Cary had to offer at the time with a lot of top secret squirrel **** done to them to even be able to ingest that amount of nitrous, respond to that amount of nitrous, and live with that amount of nitrous.
A 346 can only consume so much air no matter the cam, heads, intake etc.
I'm trying to talk him into a 408ci with the LQ9 and ported L92 heads and ported L76 intake. Another 62 cubic inches should do worlds of good. And the cost of the rotating assembly will be the same or damn near.
.
07-06-2012, 08:50 PM
#10
It would probably only take 300hp jet worth of nitrous to get a good L92 headed 408 to 800rwhp.
Does he just want a street car with 800rwhp or does he want to race it also?
What I would do for 800rwhp LOL. I'd be out on the corner pimping hoe's for 800rwhp.
07-06-2012, 10:12 PM
#11
- How much nitrous can it handle? lots of 370 and 408's eating 300 shots
What type of set-up? people are spraying 300's through plates, but most people will tell you Direct Port will be best for distribution and tune ability.
- Progressive? For a highway roller I don't see a need for a progressive. Power management is most import when trying to harness a huge shot in a holeshot situation
- DP with stand alone and race gas? Exactly what I would want. Hard to pull that much fuel from the rail and you would have to mix race fuel in your tank.
Last edited by My6speedZ; 07-06-2012 at 10:32 PM.
07-06-2012, 11:44 PM
#13
I agree a built 408 can put down anywhere from 500-550rwhp. A 300 shot will see you to the 8xx mark if he jets its and get the tune up right. If he is going to be doing alot of highway runs, that thing is going to go through bottles pretty fast.
- How much nitrous can it handle? lots of 370 and 408's eating 300 shots
What type of set-up? people are spraying 300's through plates, but most people will tell you Direct Port will be best for distribution and tune ability.
- Progressive? For a highway roller I don't see a need for a progressive. Power management is most import when trying to harness a huge shot in a holeshot situation
- DP with stand alone and race gas? Exactly what I would want. Hard to pull that much fuel from the rail and you would have to mix race fuel in your tank.
- How much nitrous can it handle? lots of 370 and 408's eating 300 shots
What type of set-up? people are spraying 300's through plates, but most people will tell you Direct Port will be best for distribution and tune ability.
- Progressive? For a highway roller I don't see a need for a progressive. Power management is most import when trying to harness a huge shot in a holeshot situation
- DP with stand alone and race gas? Exactly what I would want. Hard to pull that much fuel from the rail and you would have to mix race fuel in your tank.
Cool....so sounds like 800+ RWHP with the 408ci will do well for him.
.
07-06-2012, 11:45 PM
#14
I wonder if my 850 RWHP 408ci single turbo will beat his 850 RWHP 408ci nitrous car. Both Trans Ams with 4L80E's and I think we'll both probably use 3.23 gears. Both full weight street cars.
Should be interesting......
.
07-07-2012, 12:36 AM
#16
If you race from a dead stop and he gets traction even if you get traction he will win.
From a roll on the highway you will own him. He might pull a fender or a door on the jump, but you will reel him in and over take him.
Ask me how I know
And FWIW I have seen and rode in several big turbo cars(T6 82mm plus turbo's) with properly spec'd cams and tunes that were set-up correctly as I like to do them with added timing in certain places in the tune where it only adds timing when you need it under the curve and they have almost zero lag. These were also auto cars with normal(3200-4400rpm stalls) and they would honestly make you think to yourself why does anyone ever even talk about lag?
07-07-2012, 12:40 AM
#17
I agree a built 408 can put down anywhere from 500-550rwhp. A 300 shot will see you to the 8xx mark if he jets its and get the tune up right. If he is going to be doing alot of highway runs, that thing is going to go through bottles pretty fast.
- How much nitrous can it handle? lots of 370 and 408's eating 300 shots
What type of set-up? people are spraying 300's through plates, but most people will tell you Direct Port will be best for distribution and tune ability.
- Progressive? For a highway roller I don't see a need for a progressive. Power management is most import when trying to harness a huge shot in a holeshot situation
- DP with stand alone and race gas? Exactly what I would want. Hard to pull that much fuel from the rail and you would have to mix race fuel in your tank.
- How much nitrous can it handle? lots of 370 and 408's eating 300 shots
What type of set-up? people are spraying 300's through plates, but most people will tell you Direct Port will be best for distribution and tune ability.
- Progressive? For a highway roller I don't see a need for a progressive. Power management is most import when trying to harness a huge shot in a holeshot situation
- DP with stand alone and race gas? Exactly what I would want. Hard to pull that much fuel from the rail and you would have to mix race fuel in your tank.
07-07-2012, 01:38 AM
#18
I've had a turbo car and now a nitrous car.
If you race from a dead stop and he gets traction even if you get traction he will win.
From a roll on the highway you will own him. He might pull a fender or a door on the jump, but you will reel him in and over take him.
Ask me how I know
And FWIW I have seen and rode in several big turbo cars(T6 82mm plus turbo's) with properly spec'd cams and tunes that were set-up correctly as I like to do them with added timing in certain places in the tune where it only adds timing when you need it under the curve and they have almost zero lag. These were also auto cars with normal(3200-4400rpm stalls) and they would honestly make you think to yourself why does anyone ever even talk about lag?
If you race from a dead stop and he gets traction even if you get traction he will win.
From a roll on the highway you will own him. He might pull a fender or a door on the jump, but you will reel him in and over take him.
Ask me how I know
And FWIW I have seen and rode in several big turbo cars(T6 82mm plus turbo's) with properly spec'd cams and tunes that were set-up correctly as I like to do them with added timing in certain places in the tune where it only adds timing when you need it under the curve and they have almost zero lag. These were also auto cars with normal(3200-4400rpm stalls) and they would honestly make you think to yourself why does anyone ever even talk about lag?
So do you actually do tuning on turbo cars?
.
07-07-2012, 08:51 AM
#19
I have honestly never tuned one from scratch, but know what configurations are needed to get the idle tune right, dial in the VE table injectors etc. etc.
I have taken people's tunes that are already done for the most part, tweaked them and I have always had great results and the people I have done that for are always much happier with the end result.
07-07-2012, 02:30 PM
#20
I try to offer as much advice as I can on people's tunes that need help.
I have honestly never tuned one from scratch, but know what configurations are needed to get the idle tune right, dial in the VE table injectors etc. etc.
I have taken people's tunes that are already done for the most part, tweaked them and I have always had great results and the people I have done that for are always much happier with the end result.
I have honestly never tuned one from scratch, but know what configurations are needed to get the idle tune right, dial in the VE table injectors etc. etc.
I have taken people's tunes that are already done for the most part, tweaked them and I have always had great results and the people I have done that for are always much happier with the end result.
I plan to drive it N/A for a few months then start on the turbo kit.
So here's another question that has to do with what we were talking about in the other thread.
If I plan to run full time 103 octane....should I go ahead and build a 10.5:1 cr engine. Then do my planned 18-20psi with the turbo and 103 octane? It'll be the 408ci 6.0L iron block and thick deck heads.
And......if I do and one day I get stuck somewhere and I'm forced to use 93 octane, can I go ahead and use it as long as I drive it very casually just to get it to a 103 station? It won't detonate?
****Or should I just do 9:1 cr and use 93 pump gas all the time with the 18-20 psi.?
Will it make the same power either way????
.