View Poll Results: Are Hellfire rings overkill for a 175 shot?
Yes
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No
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Piston Ring Recommendation for 175 shot max? Are Hellfires Overkill?
10-31-2012, 03:50 PM
#1
Piston Ring Recommendation for 175 shot max? Are Hellfires Overkill? I am having an 34Xci engine built that will be using either an Eagle or Scat H-Beam rod with ARP2000 bolts and Mahle forged pistons (nothing is in stone yet, so I am open to other brands). I foresee this car making about 400 rwhp on motor (LS6 heads, EPS cam, LS6 IM, bolt ons) with a fuel system capable of 600 rwhp MAX (the $200 racetronix kit) My car is primarily a street car. I want to go into more of an autocross direction with the car rather than drag racing, however, like I said, the car will be making about 400 rwhp on motor and I imagine the time will come where I will be wanting more power. So I got to thinking about putting a NDNO plate kit on my car. I also plan on running a 10 bolt, so when I do spray, it will be from a roll. I also don’t foresee myself putting a kit on the car for a long time (due to financial constraints & priority constraints) as well as spraying all the time because I want this engine to last.
I know what parts I am going to use for my short block (LS6 Block, Stock Crank, forged pistons & rods with the arp2000 bolts, ARP mains, clevite 77 rod & main bearings (open to suggestions here too)) except for which piston rings to use and what gap to put them at.
My questions are:
My builder recommended Hellfire rings. Are they overkill for what I am trying to do? I know that they will hold the spray no problem, but will they accelerate the wear on my cylinder walls? As mentioned before, I want this engine to last. If they are overkill, which rings would you run?
Asking this question makes me feel kind of silly since I hear LS1s are built tight from GM and if set up properly, can handle 150 shots, but since I am starting a thread I figure I would ask. When I tell my engine builder that I am going to spray a 175 max, I imagine that he will gap the rings wider than if I told him that I will never see spray. Will this wider gap make my engine burn oil?
Thank you for your input and let me know if any additional information is needed.
I know what parts I am going to use for my short block (LS6 Block, Stock Crank, forged pistons & rods with the arp2000 bolts, ARP mains, clevite 77 rod & main bearings (open to suggestions here too)) except for which piston rings to use and what gap to put them at.
My questions are:
My builder recommended Hellfire rings. Are they overkill for what I am trying to do? I know that they will hold the spray no problem, but will they accelerate the wear on my cylinder walls? As mentioned before, I want this engine to last. If they are overkill, which rings would you run?
Asking this question makes me feel kind of silly since I hear LS1s are built tight from GM and if set up properly, can handle 150 shots, but since I am starting a thread I figure I would ask. When I tell my engine builder that I am going to spray a 175 max, I imagine that he will gap the rings wider than if I told him that I will never see spray. Will this wider gap make my engine burn oil?
Thank you for your input and let me know if any additional information is needed.
11-01-2012, 08:44 AM
#2
Why would you trust a bunch of strangers on a public internet forum over your engine builder? He knows what he is talking about. Hellfire rings will be fine. They are not going to wear out the cylinder walls. A lot of builders use them on NA motors. I use them in mine with 900hp worth of nitrous too. Yes, people do get away with more than 175hp on stock type rings, but your builder is looking at this with reliability in mind.
11-01-2012, 09:01 AM
#3
Why would you trust a bunch of strangers on a public internet forum over your engine builder? He knows what he is talking about. Hellfire rings will be fine. They are not going to wear out the cylinder walls. A lot of builders use them on NA motors. I use them in mine with 900hp worth of nitrous too. Yes, people do get away with more than 175hp on stock type rings, but your builder is looking at this with reliability in mind.
03-06-2013, 04:15 PM
#4
bump. I am hearing from other engine builders that a ~$175 total seal ring package gets the job done the same for less money.
if you have anything that could help me to determine which piston rings I should use, please post it. It would be very useful to me.
if you have anything that could help me to determine which piston rings I should use, please post it. It would be very useful to me.
Last edited by jdoyle; 03-06-2013 at 04:29 PM.
03-06-2013, 04:44 PM
#5
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With the amount of power you will be making you can run any ring you want. I doubt you will not notice more blow-by with the wider gap. If it were me I would run the hellfires.
I've had very good results with hellfire rings in 1600+ hp BBC's
I've had very good results with hellfire rings in 1600+ hp BBC's
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03-11-2013, 11:13 AM
#10
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you dont need hell fire rings... stock rings would be fine but if you doing it just put hell fires in it they are probly the best ring on the market... if you can make 1000 plus with them i dont see why your worried about 400. seems like a lot of money put into something for only 400 horse to me tho.
03-11-2013, 11:16 AM
#11
you dont need hell fire rings... stock rings would be fine but if you doing it just put hell fires in it they are probly the best ring on the market... if you can make 1000 plus with them i dont see why your worried about 400. seems like a lot of money put into something for only 400 horse to me tho.
thanks for the reply.
03-12-2013, 08:05 PM
#13
The hardened ductile (Hellfire) top ring should only add ~$50-$60 to your ring cost, and you will be hard pressed to hurt them.
If you don't keep on top of the tune and detonate the Moly ring, eventually you are going to be starting over, at a cost of a lot more than ~$50-$60.
If you don't keep on top of the tune and detonate the Moly ring, eventually you are going to be starting over, at a cost of a lot more than ~$50-$60.
03-13-2013, 11:06 AM
#14
you dont need hell fire rings... stock rings would be fine but if you doing it just put hell fires in it they are probly the best ring on the market... if you can make 1000 plus with them i dont see why your worried about 400. seems like a lot of money put into something for only 400 horse to me tho.
Are hell fire rings an aggressive enough ring to accelerate the wear of a cylinder bore on a car that is primarily street driven?
DISCLAIMER: I am a n00b to piston rings so I have pretty much no idea what I am talking about.
The hardened ductile (Hellfire) top ring should only add ~$50-$60 to your ring cost, and you will be hard pressed to hurt them.
If you don't keep on top of the tune and detonate the Moly ring, eventually you are going to be starting over, at a cost of a lot more than ~$50-$60.
If you don't keep on top of the tune and detonate the Moly ring, eventually you are going to be starting over, at a cost of a lot more than ~$50-$60.
Are hell fire rings an aggressive enough ring to accelerate the wear of a cylinder bore on a car that is primarily street driven?
Thanks for the replies guys. We are getting closer to the answer!
03-13-2013, 02:52 PM
#15
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So your building a forged motor, and want to save 45 bucks or so on rings. If you don't need hellfires, you don't need forged pistons and rods. Throw a stock rotating assembly in there. Your letting a small fuel system upgrade in the future limit your hp goals. So a year from now you decide to upgrade pumps and make 700+hp. You have the shortblock but wait, I have to take it apart to change rings. Put the rings in there now and have a good building block. Theres no point in cheaping out now.
By the way I don't like hell fires. But price out a set of C&A's and you'll see how much of a deal they are.
By the way I don't like hell fires. But price out a set of C&A's and you'll see how much of a deal they are.
03-13-2013, 03:05 PM
#16
So your building a forged motor, and want to save 45 bucks or so on rings. If you don't need hellfires, you don't need forged pistons and rods. Throw a stock rotating assembly in there. Your letting a small fuel system upgrade in the future limit your hp goals. So a year from now you decide to upgrade pumps and make 700+hp. You have the shortblock but wait, I have to take it apart to change rings. Put the rings in there now and have a good building block. Theres no point in cheaping out now.
By the way I don't like hell fires. But price out a set of C&A's and you'll see how much of a deal they are.
By the way I don't like hell fires. But price out a set of C&A's and you'll see how much of a deal they are.
