progressive controller?? whats this?
12-23-2002, 04:54 PM
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progressive controller?? whats this? im looking into nitrous oxide and i heard bou this. sounds like a good way to help the initial torque spike for an A4 (which i have) can someone give me an explanantion on what it is?/ how much? where can i get it? can i install it?
u guys kno the usual run down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
thanx
u guys kno the usual run down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
thanx
12-24-2002, 12:03 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? Where to get it-Sponsors---------------->
What is it-A unit that controls the amount of nitrous/fuel unleashed at predetermined points set by user IAW the application. Say you want to run a big shot but like you said dont want to leave your tranny sitting at the line, you set it based off from percentage of maximum shot at theline and then progressively increasing spray amount up to the max. Like this, a 200 shot (direct port of course) at the line you set it for 50%, this equals 50shot then progressively add more nitrous until it reaches the full 200. smooth huh?
How much-of course depends on maker and all that, again check sponsors. Looking around $500-600 though basically.
Yeah, if you have basic mechanical prowess you should be able to install it. It jumps the signal to the solenoids and basically makes them pulsate to control the amount as per your setting. So a few wires and **** and viola, your hitting it. You can jet your kit to spray 150 shot, but w/ the PC you can set it to start at 20%, or 30hp shot and work up to only 66% or 100hp shot. Then when you know the guy in the other lane has a little more than what you will need at a 100shot, program for 50% at line and then up to 100% or the full 150shot. Easy right.
Good-luck.
Charlie.
What is it-A unit that controls the amount of nitrous/fuel unleashed at predetermined points set by user IAW the application. Say you want to run a big shot but like you said dont want to leave your tranny sitting at the line, you set it based off from percentage of maximum shot at theline and then progressively increasing spray amount up to the max. Like this, a 200 shot (direct port of course) at the line you set it for 50%, this equals 50shot then progressively add more nitrous until it reaches the full 200. smooth huh?
How much-of course depends on maker and all that, again check sponsors. Looking around $500-600 though basically.
Yeah, if you have basic mechanical prowess you should be able to install it. It jumps the signal to the solenoids and basically makes them pulsate to control the amount as per your setting. So a few wires and **** and viola, your hitting it. You can jet your kit to spray 150 shot, but w/ the PC you can set it to start at 20%, or 30hp shot and work up to only 66% or 100hp shot. Then when you know the guy in the other lane has a little more than what you will need at a 100shot, program for 50% at line and then up to 100% or the full 150shot. Easy right.
Good-luck.
Charlie.
12-24-2002, 03:03 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? since it could probably cost 500-600$ i it worth it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
12-25-2002, 03:03 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? i have a F.R.E.D., and love it! great for good 60 foots on a m6! leaving at 60-70 percent on my 100 shot, i can get in the 1.5's with ease. i hope this spring to hit the 200 shot and maybe see some 1.4's.
i think it was worth the 500 bucks....
i think it was worth the 500 bucks....
12-25-2002, 10:13 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? Is it worth it? Of course it is all a matter of opinion, but if traction is an issue, then it is worth it. If you wanna run big shots, then it is worth it. If you just want to play around with anything up to 100 or 150 shot ina single stage format, then no, it ain't worth it. For me, I plan on going DP with 300 jets, at the line program it for about 25%. So it will be worth it to me.
Charlie.
Charlie.
12-26-2002, 08:18 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? Remember that the percentage that you set is the percent of flow of the solenoid...not of what jets you have in it.
Lets say that you have NOS Cheater's, they are capable of supporting up to 250hp, so if you start at 20%, you are shooting 20% of 250.
So you must set up a chart using the percents of flow of the solenoids vs the jet size...I have seen set ups where they are leaving at a higher percent then what the jetting is, and then they have time built into the progressive, but the already started passed what the jetting was.
confused yet.????
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
jb
Lets say that you have NOS Cheater's, they are capable of supporting up to 250hp, so if you start at 20%, you are shooting 20% of 250.
So you must set up a chart using the percents of flow of the solenoids vs the jet size...I have seen set ups where they are leaving at a higher percent then what the jetting is, and then they have time built into the progressive, but the already started passed what the jetting was.
confused yet.????
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
jb
12-26-2002, 10:59 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? avdawg- YES, confused, very, ouch, what is this math you speak of? I was told that if I jet my DP with 200 jets, and set it at start of 25% then it will be 50hp at line. I have no idea what the solenoids flow and as for the higher percentage than the jets are set at ouch that hurts trying to figure that one out. please explain.
Charlie.
Charlie.
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12-26-2002, 07:11 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? ok...here goes, I was probably one of the first to use the progressive controller on our top fuel / funnybike from Schnitz Racing 6-7 years ago. ( I think I have the second prototype box in my cabnet) This has developed into a really nice unit. The one NOS sells is made by them ( the digital one, not the little 2 **** thingie!!
So...the controller pulses the solenoids at a rate (% of flow) the controller has no idea what jets are in the nozzles. So you will need to know the maximum HP flow rate of whatever solenoids you are using, the following is based on a NOS Cheater solenoid.
Percent HP
20% 50
25% 62.5
30% 75
35% 87.5
40% 100
45% 112.5
50% 125
55% 137.5
60% 150
65% 162.5
70% 175
75% 187.5
80% 200
85% 212.5
90% 225
95% 237.5
100% 250
So...lets just say that if you have 150hp jets in it and you want 50hp off the line, then you would set it at 20% (20% of 250hp is 50hp),
Then you would set a build time of say 5 seconds...BUT you have to look at what percentage = the jets (we had 150hp jets) so that is 60% (of the solenoid flow rate) which makes the build time to your jetting only about 2.5 seconds...because the controller is pulsing the solenoids and because of the flowrate of them . Thats where it would crossover and be at full power BEFORE you hit 100%...
Sorry it was so long, but its kinda hard to explain, but simple...
So, if you really care to know what type of pwer you are putting in it, then you need to make a chart that reflects the solenoids that you are using.
But if you dont care what the numbers are, you can just dial tha percents and times and go...BUT if you re jet for more HP you really dont know how to set thw box up.
Here is the one we use
http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/c...&prodid=313830
jeeezz I need a beer after that
let me know if I can help
jb
PS
it WILL help with those slick tracks in Hawaii, You might know a bike racer there that is a buddy of mine...Andy Dung, he has a performance shop in Honolulu (SP) sorry
<small>[ December 26, 2002, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: avdawg ]</small>
So...the controller pulses the solenoids at a rate (% of flow) the controller has no idea what jets are in the nozzles. So you will need to know the maximum HP flow rate of whatever solenoids you are using, the following is based on a NOS Cheater solenoid.
Percent HP
20% 50
25% 62.5
30% 75
35% 87.5
40% 100
45% 112.5
50% 125
55% 137.5
60% 150
65% 162.5
70% 175
75% 187.5
80% 200
85% 212.5
90% 225
95% 237.5
100% 250
So...lets just say that if you have 150hp jets in it and you want 50hp off the line, then you would set it at 20% (20% of 250hp is 50hp),
Then you would set a build time of say 5 seconds...BUT you have to look at what percentage = the jets (we had 150hp jets) so that is 60% (of the solenoid flow rate) which makes the build time to your jetting only about 2.5 seconds...because the controller is pulsing the solenoids and because of the flowrate of them . Thats where it would crossover and be at full power BEFORE you hit 100%...
Sorry it was so long, but its kinda hard to explain, but simple...
So, if you really care to know what type of pwer you are putting in it, then you need to make a chart that reflects the solenoids that you are using.
But if you dont care what the numbers are, you can just dial tha percents and times and go...BUT if you re jet for more HP you really dont know how to set thw box up.
Here is the one we use
http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/c...&prodid=313830
jeeezz I need a beer after that
let me know if I can help
jb
PS
it WILL help with those slick tracks in Hawaii, You might know a bike racer there that is a buddy of mine...Andy Dung, he has a performance shop in Honolulu (SP) sorry
<small>[ December 26, 2002, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: avdawg ]</small>
12-26-2002, 07:34 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? Here is a pic of the 2 stage one in the intake and one useing the NOS NOSzles under the fuel injectors. This in on my 2001 lightning. It has gone low 7's in the 1/8th mile @ 97mph. We have not been back to a 1/4 mile track since march??..it went an 11.89 @ 115 on a single stage 150 pass.
<img src="http://www.lbbp.net/RT/images/NOS2.jpg" alt=" - " />
the install is 10 times cleaner now!!! the pics where taken after at 5 R&R's of the system, so it looks like crap
jb
<img src="http://www.lbbp.net/RT/images/NOS2.jpg" alt=" - " />
the install is 10 times cleaner now!!! the pics where taken after at 5 R&R's of the system, so it looks like crap
jb
12-27-2002, 01:41 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? To think I didnt even start this post, sorry TaJay but you go tme on a roll.
JB, one more question about the controllers. If I figure out the noids output max, make my chart and program it to spray what I want and all that, BUT I am using a window switch will this interfere with the forward progression of the controller. e.g. I am spraying a 70shot at the line, and 200shot at 100%, as it is spraying the 200shot, and it hits the window switch, will it restart at the 70 shot or continue progressing forward with the 200?
O.K. Question #2. During the transition from the 70 shot to the 200shotis this a progressively increasing level as the name implies? Is this accomplished by the build time? Basically I want ot spray a DP kit max shot of 300. I want about 50-75 at the line and then a smooth transition into the 300 shot, not looking at an instaneous jump from 50 to 300, but a nice "save the A4" transition. Your help is appreciated, thanks for all the info, link and pic. BTW is you buddy working RevTek?
JB, one more question about the controllers. If I figure out the noids output max, make my chart and program it to spray what I want and all that, BUT I am using a window switch will this interfere with the forward progression of the controller. e.g. I am spraying a 70shot at the line, and 200shot at 100%, as it is spraying the 200shot, and it hits the window switch, will it restart at the 70 shot or continue progressing forward with the 200?
O.K. Question #2. During the transition from the 70 shot to the 200shotis this a progressively increasing level as the name implies? Is this accomplished by the build time? Basically I want ot spray a DP kit max shot of 300. I want about 50-75 at the line and then a smooth transition into the 300 shot, not looking at an instaneous jump from 50 to 300, but a nice "save the A4" transition. Your help is appreciated, thanks for all the info, link and pic. BTW is you buddy working RevTek?
12-29-2002, 04:55 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? Q#1: BUT I am using a window switch will this interfere with the forward progression of the controller. e.g. I am spraying a 70shot at the line, and 200shot at 100%, as it is spraying the 200shot, and it hits the window switch, will it restart at the 70 shot or continue progressing forward with the 200?
A1: No, the controllers like I use will pick up with the pregression at the time the nitrous system was disingauged. ( if you have to let off the gass or it gets turned off by the window switch
Q#2. During the transition from the 70 shot to the 200shotis this a progressively increasing level as the name implies? Is this accomplished by the build time? Basically I want ot spray a DP kit max shot of 300. I want about 50-75 at the line and then a smooth transition into the 300 shot, not looking at an instaneous jump from 50 to 300, but a nice "save the A4" transition
A2: The build time and final percent settings deterime the rate of progression. So yes that is correct.
Hope this helps
jb
A1: No, the controllers like I use will pick up with the pregression at the time the nitrous system was disingauged. ( if you have to let off the gass or it gets turned off by the window switch
Q#2. During the transition from the 70 shot to the 200shotis this a progressively increasing level as the name implies? Is this accomplished by the build time? Basically I want ot spray a DP kit max shot of 300. I want about 50-75 at the line and then a smooth transition into the 300 shot, not looking at an instaneous jump from 50 to 300, but a nice "save the A4" transition
A2: The build time and final percent settings deterime the rate of progression. So yes that is correct.
Hope this helps
jb
12-29-2002, 07:12 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? avdawg-Thanks, I am sure this helps TaJay and definately answers my "?". One last question.
If the solenoid is capable of flowing 400hp of nitrous, and I jet it for 200hp, and somehow F'up the percentage table, it wont be able to spray more than 200 shot right? I am thinking this because the orfice within the jet will limit the actual amount of flow, but the going over the percentage will cause it send a bigger than desired first stage and go to max flow of jets quicker. hope this wasnt to confusing.
TIA again, Charlie.
If the solenoid is capable of flowing 400hp of nitrous, and I jet it for 200hp, and somehow F'up the percentage table, it wont be able to spray more than 200 shot right? I am thinking this because the orfice within the jet will limit the actual amount of flow, but the going over the percentage will cause it send a bigger than desired first stage and go to max flow of jets quicker. hope this wasnt to confusing.
TIA again, Charlie.
12-30-2002, 08:04 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by avdawg:
<strong>Thats correct...the jets will detirmine the Final HP, no matter what size solenoids are on it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, but if the solenoid(s) can not supply the amount of fuel/nitrous the jet(s) are rated for, you will not see the advertised hp rated on the jets. The two really go hand in hand.
<strong>Thats correct...the jets will detirmine the Final HP, no matter what size solenoids are on it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, but if the solenoid(s) can not supply the amount of fuel/nitrous the jet(s) are rated for, you will not see the advertised hp rated on the jets. The two really go hand in hand.
12-30-2002, 09:42 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? ls1290
yep...I didnt say that correctly...but I new what I meant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
jb
yep...I didnt say that correctly...but I new what I meant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
jb
12-30-2002, 11:46 PM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? avdawg, you rock, and yeah, I knew what you meant as well, but good looking out to LS1290. Thanks to both of ya, much appreciation is sent your way.
Timing Tuner, nope, me no like 'em sorry.
Timing Tuner, nope, me no like 'em sorry.
12-31-2002, 08:14 AM
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Re: progressive controller?? whats this? No problem, glad I was able to help...
Here is what I started on last night for my 03 Cobra.
not 1, not 2...but a 3 stage system <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Heck, its gonna take a week to wire the thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
and another week to plumb it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Just starting to get it laid out & see what I have to fab up.
<img src="http://www.lbbp.net/RT/images/Cobra_NOS_B_12_30_02.jpg" alt=" - " />
jb
Here is what I started on last night for my 03 Cobra.
not 1, not 2...but a 3 stage system <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Heck, its gonna take a week to wire the thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
and another week to plumb it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Just starting to get it laid out & see what I have to fab up.
<img src="http://www.lbbp.net/RT/images/Cobra_NOS_B_12_30_02.jpg" alt=" - " />
jb
