Fast94bird

I think Dave, and 860 have said it all. But I have to put my 2Cents in. I personnelly have not been posting very long but to try to get sales by comparing yourself to your competion or making it seem like someone is going to purchase your parts (when they weren't) is just wrong and lame. This post is to help out NXL owers.
NX isretesting the NXL for jetting and will post there results direct on this site.

wholesalenitrousmike

If you need help we offer it to our customers. No harm there. We even help out guys that have kits from other manufactures. I simple stated that we have fixed other problems on other guys cars with NX kits as well as NOS or ours. Sure we sell parts and offer specials. I like keeping things short and sweet! If someone calls us and asks for me I always take the time to help them with any tech issues! So that is how it is. I never tried to belittle anyone "Dave" so if that is how you feel you may need to look somewhere else if your feeling that way. We are all here because we love to race and I enjoy the service and quality of parts we bring to the table. if you have not purchased any of our parts Dave (which you have not) then you really do not know! *** you told me on the phone you have looked at pictures. Pictures are not the same as testing. if you ever come down to Houston I will gladly give you a tour of all of our facilities which you will find very educational. We have millions of dollars in CNC Machines and I can show you first hand how any part is made from start to finish! See if any of the other companies can or will provide that kind of SHOW AND TELL!

MeanWS6

(Ok, I wanted to post this right after I saw Mike's sales pitch in this thread, but I kept my mouth shut til now)

blah blah blah - mike, or aka speednls1 (yea, we know it was you), you totally attempted to hijack this thread. Dave is the ONLY sponsor who was helping us to resolve these issues. Read the title of the post again, and if that isnt enough read the contents of the post - FOR NXL ISSUES ONLY.

You are as bad as a used car salesman or the scumbag "guy friend" that moves in on your lady when you have an argument or something. This post was for DAVE ONLY to help him resolve our issues, not for you to try and sell your generic parts.

Oh, and you wanna talk customer service - I didn't even buy my kit from him and he is still helping me!!! (although i have bought a bunch of other stuff from him)

Point is, lets get this post back on track, FOR NXL ISSUES ONLY SO THAT DAVE CAN HELP US OUT. We dont see one post in here from him trying to sell us other kits, now do we . . .no he wants us to be happy with the kit!!!

Its great your a sponsor and I appreciate that, but act like one.

Brains

iTrader: (7)

Get this thread back on track, or you'll be seeing some posts disappear

marlowchris

Lets get this thread back on track. No more vendor comparison, we all know Dave is the man.

If NX is testing the kit whch evidently they are. Then not only do we need to see their results but we need to know ALL test conditions. Model car, fuel pump used, fuel pressure, bottle pressure, A/F ratio, etc. Based on their initial jet sizing I am beginning to wonder how well they tested this kit to begin with. Strange that their initial testing showed good results, while all our personal experiences show otherwise. Isf there something defective with all 12 of our cars. I think that is highly unlikely.

I am looking forward to hearing about their findings. But in the meantime, I am installing a Walbro fuel pump this weekend.

Greg Fell

iTrader: (9)

I just spoke with Ricky @ NX. He was very polite, and adamant that NX WILL fix this kit. However, it may take a bit. They are looking into redesigning the rails. They have new brackets already. It looks like we'll just have to be patient, and see what they come up with.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Greg. I seen this post while I was on the phone with Ricky.I think there was a mis understanding between you and Ricky.The redisighning of the rails is purley cosmetic.They making it look nicer.They are taking out the 90 degree cut and putting a radius there.Ricky hates hard 90 degree cuts on machining.
Dave

chpmnsws6

iTrader: (70)

will NX do the right thing and give NXL owners the fix our will they be forced to pay even more ontop off the 900+ already spent?

JF WS6

Probably have to pay. Nothing else they have updated has been free. If they were to do the right thing, when they replace a part with a better one or fix something, we should be able to send our old one back to them and they should happily replace it with the new and improved part. I do have a feeling this isn't what will happen however, based on what has happened so far.

IMO because I think it is obvious the LS1 based system needs more testing in a variety of conditions/situations to officially work out the kinks in the design (which will probably take a decent amount of time), I believe it should be officially recalled until then. At which point they should allow current owners to exchange the system or receive credit towards something else of approximately the same value. This would allow NX to take all the systems that have been sold with the old parts off of the streets and cause them less headaches later when the new and improved system is released.

93LS1RX7

iTrader: (8)

I agree completely. I dont want to sit on a useless $1000 nitrous kit that I cant even use.

Dave any chance of working something out with NX? I can return my rails and nozzles if they hook me up with a MAF kit.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Guys you are going to have to be patient and see what the testing shows.Nothing is going to be done until then.
Dave

gvzo6

iTrader: (53)

I shipped them my kit for testing on 7-30-04 they should have by mid week

Slart

I purchased a NXL kit from Nitro Dave's last week, then I ran into this thread so I am eager to get to the bottom of this. I've built more than my share of cars, including an 800hp pump gas, streetable mustang so I do understand what it takes to make power safely.

I am trying to analyze the available information so I can decide if this is the way I want to go. I haven't opened my kit yet and given dave's great customer service I suspect he'd have no problem trading me for another kit if I decide I dont want to deal with these problems.

I dont want to go that route. The keys to making power safely are consistency and accuracy, and that's the reason I want a direct port kit. I would much rather fix a few problems and get a properly working direct port kit because it will be safer than a MAF kit at the same power level.


It seems to me there are 4 areas of complaint:

1) Fitament (injectors popping out / cutting injector o-rings / brackets not fitting)
2) Lines breaking
3) Low power output
4) System running lean


#1 and #2 dont scare me, because aftermarket problems often have problems like this. They're pretty much expected when you put on aftermarket parts. The key is to be patient and meticulous.

What worries me more are #3 and #4.

#3: The system is not making as much power as it's jetted for.

There are two likely causes. Either the system isnt flowing enough, or the fuel mixture is off.

If the system isn't flowing enough, that's no big deal. Just put in bigger jets. The fact that it was low on power doesnt hurt anything.

If the fuel mixture is off, that is a more serious problem, and from the posts of the few people who bothered to check AF ratio, that seems to be the problem.


#4: System running lean.

This is the real issue it seems to me. The most likely cause it seems is the fuel pressure dropping.

It seems NX is recommending an accumulator to stop the system from going lean. Can someone explain to me what that is? It sounds to me like it's a box that goes in front of the rail to act as a reservoir.

Has anybody who's had problems with going lean checked their fuel pressure when they activate the system?

While I havent done much work on my LS1, I have a stinking suspicion the cause of the problems with this kit is how far the fuel regulator is from the fuel rails. I suspect that when you increase the fuel load suddenly the pressure drops, and this is why people's kits are running lean.

Can anybody verify this? All it would take is someone who's having this problem to watch the fuel pressure when they hit the button. If the pressure drops like a rock, we've found the culrpit.

If this is the problem, the fix is pretty simple. All we have to do is convert the car to a return style system. That's pretty simple too - all we have to do is get a regulator and run a line back to the tank. The car's practically set up for it. The plastic connectors that hold the fuel line / brake lines / evap line to the body has a space for another 5/16 line, all that would have to be done is get a second evap line off a junkyard car, snap it into the empty hole, disconnect the stock regulator at the tee near the fuel filter, plug off the return portion at the tee, and connect the spare evap line to the stock regulator. Then wire a regulator on the driver side fenderwell. This is a $300 project that would only take a couple hours.

I'm pretty much convinced this is the problem - and the solution - and that NX knows it, but doesnt want to add these parts to the kit because it would double their cost. Fair enough. Maybe we dont need NX's help to make this kit perfect. I'd be happy to be the pioneer and be the first to dive in. But before I do, I'd feel more comfortable if I knew that the fuel pressure was the problem. So far it's just my speculation.

So.. does anybody with a fuel pressure gauge and a NXL kit have the answer?

Steve

JF WS6

Hey Steve,

A return style fuel system may help a bit overall for high HP setups, but I don't think IMO the problem is fuel pressure. They did have this issue awhile back in which the fuel accumulator was the fix. What was happening was when the system was activated, the rails drained of fuel too quickly for the fuel pump to keep up and maintain pressure which caused an initial lean spike and a sputter/hesitation at the moment of activation. I think the fuel accumulator has at least put an end to that problem from most peoples reports. The accumulator is just a small aluminum resevoir that is connected with fuel line to the rails. It fills up with fuel and basically gives the rails more volume. It opens when the pressure in the rails drop and keeps the pressure steady.

Many if not most people running this kit or any wet kit on this board are also running in tank/external Walbro 340 fuel pumps or similar systems that can support easily over 500-600RWHP. Most that have decided to go the N20 route are aware they need to upgrade their fuel systems, so I really feel pretty sure that is not the issue. If someone else feels differently, then they can post and correct my position.

I think the problem most likely has to do with jetting and the integrated solenoids in the rails. Most peoples reports indicate that they do not achieve anywhere near the power they should with the included jets, but it isn't just a case of using bigger jets. The problem is from people trying the combination of fuel/N20 jets that NX says to use and the car runs way too rich, so then they step down the size of fuel jet to the next one and it's way too lean. A few people have tried several times to tune with the kit with varying jetting combinations and so far it doesn't seem to have turned out too well - so definately this needs some work to get right. The most HP I've heard about from NX's 180 jetting combination has been 130. Pretty big difference.

The other problem is that there have been at least 2 counts that I know of from the board of the integrated fuel solenoid completely dying (VERY dangerous of course), and many have reported that their systems fuel solenoids are performing poorly - i.e. not enough fuel coming out. Maybe it's the way they are made, or they are too small.... who knows. People tested their kit by unhooking a few of the small fuel lines to the nozzles while the engine is off but the ignition on - then activating the WOT switch and not much fuel came out. I also read talk of NX implementing larger solenoids into the rails to support up to the 300 shot this kit is supposed to already be able to do. I don't know if there's any truth to that rumor however.

Anyhow, those are the real problems. I think nearly all of us could deal with the fit/finish quality issues if the system performed and as advertised. We'll see what kind of further results come from the testing that should happen shortly of gvZ06's system he sent in.

gvzo6

iTrader: (53)

my fp is above 50psi when i hit the button

Slart

Hmm, maybe my kit differs. I dont have integrated solenoids.

I havent opened my kit yet so I may be off on a few of the sizes, but the way my kit works, there are two solenoids (I cant see the part number, but they are 2.5" tall and 1.5" in diameter). The solenoids have 3/8 NPT male to -6 AN male fittings, which attach pieces of 1/4" stainless steel hard line, which then attaches to a blue anodized aluminum distribution block (which measures 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1"). The distribution block has 3/8 NPT inlets for fuel and nitrous (where the hardline & solenoids connect), and eight 1/8" NPT outlets, where you connect the plastic line to the NXL nozzles.

Would I be correct in assuming this is not the kit you guys have?

Thanks,

Steve

JF WS6

Steve,

It would appear based on your description, you absolutely do NOT have the kit the rest of us have. I'm very interested now in exactly what you DO have..... the description of your kit appears to be what I've been thinking would cure the problems we have had with the kit because it does away with the integrated solenoids and all issues related to the aftermarket fuel rails.

From your description, it sounds very similar to the NOS NOSzle kit (which has proven to work well BTW.) External solenoids and distribution blocks fed into the injector nozzles. Here's a link to what our NXL kits look like NXL with braided lines You can see from the pic the solenoids integrated into the fuel rails.

Since you bought the kit from Dave, I'm really curious as to what you have. I'm somewhat upset at the thought that NX is selling a new revised NXL kit eliminating the fuel rails...... although you may have a custom DP kit that just uses the NXL nozzles, I'd really like to know what kit you have. Post up some pics if you can!

Slart

>From your description, it sounds very similar to the NOS NOSzle kit (which has proven to work well BTW.) External solenoids and distribution blocks fed into the injector nozzles.

Yup, that's what it is.

>You can see from the pic the solenoids integrated into the fuel rails.

Yes, that is definately not what I have.

>Since you bought the kit from Dave, I'm really curious as to what you have. I'm somewhat upset at the thought that NX is selling a new revised NXL kit eliminating the fuel rails...... although you may have a custom DP kit that just uses the NXL nozzles, I'd really like to know what kit you have. Post up some pics if you can!

I dont have a digital camera, but I'll see if I can borrow one tomorrow.

I done think I have a custom kit, because it's in the vacuum plastic wrapped packaging that most nitrous kits come in. Also, nx made a small aluminum plate to hold the block to the rail, so I'm gathering this is not a LS1 specific kit.

I now believe what I have is a generic efi NXL kit with a custom plate to hold it to a ls1 intake.

One more odd thing about this system is the jetting instructions say "10 PSI - safe rich. 9 PSI - safe. 8 PSI - safe lean". I imagine they're talking about fuel pressure.. but obviously that would be for a carbed system. However it comes with NXL nozzles.

Hey dave - can you shed some light on this?

- Steve Sadler

JF WS6

Steve,

Yeah, I think many of us would definately be interested in what you have. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would at this point be interested in exchanging our rails and lines for the distribution blocks, lines and seperate solenoids that you have.

The only issues you should or *may* have in relation to our kits is in relation to the jetting. It would be interesting to see how your kit performs compared to ours across the board.

Overall I find this VERY interesting because the whole point of the "NXL" system wasn't just the nozzles the injectors fit into - a lot of it had to do with the integrated high flow fuel rails with the built in solenoids. All of the NXL kits I have seen so far are like this even the import ones. I have never until now heard of the NXL type kit you have.

If you do have access to a digital camera at some point, please snap some shots so we can see what you have. I think a few of us would be upset to hear that this is what NX is now selling as the NXL for the LS1.... especially if that leaves the rest of us out in the cold with the old kit. I hope that is not the case however.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Relax,This is a system that we have always sold since day one.Steve called wanting a direct port kit but did not want to tap the intake.All he has is a directport kit upgraded from the pirahna nozzles to the NXL nozzles.He is using the NXL lines and we custome built a bracket so that the distibution block would mount on the intake with out flopping around.This system is the same set up that we do on LT1s and other cars that the NXL is not offered for.
I havent read all the post so ill get back on here later.Im doing chores around the house.LOL

As for all these problems we are seeing most of them have been solved already the only thing we are waiting on is the jetting and rich and lean conditions.
Should be taken care of shortly.I talk to NX every day about this.So i am staying on top of it for you tthe best I can.
Dave