How bad for the motor is it?
08-27-2004, 02:57 AM
#81
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I apologize to everyone that isn't involved in this debate. This is a long one.
Somehow he keeps sucking me back into this crap.
I never specified a specific HP gain with pressure increase, only that there would be a HP increase. I will refer you to NOS, NX, Nitrous Works and the speed shops I listed phone numbers if you'd like to talk to the pro's, but you'd argue with a brick wall anyway. 
I never said you need to monitor a dry kit's pressure over a wet kit. And I quote:
You also keep bringing up this DRY KIT thing, I'm not differentiating between wet and dry as they both use the same jets. Jets don't work a certain way with one kit and a different way in another.
I just re-read all the posts from start to finish and no where in there did I specify a specific HP gain that you keep claiming I did. Here is another quote:
Not sure what the final outcome would be, but according to 3 n2o manufacturers and 2 speed shops, you would be spraying more than 125. Take it to the dyno. If I had 2 bottles I would have no problem going to the dyno and trying this. I think you missed this post, Jimmy. Read it.
The various n2o system manufacturers rate their systems at specific PSI's, anything below that PSI is going to create less power, anything above that PSI is going to create more power. CALL THE DAMN COMPANIES, I EVEN GAVE YOU THEIR PHONE NUMBERS. If you can't afford the long distance, I'll call you and 3-way you to them. In case you lost their numbers I'll repost them.
I also love how you have to make an effort to talk down to people and call them names. It shows your character and maturity level. It's as if you think you're better than me, grow up.
Go to the dyno and do your own testing and/or call the phone numbers above.
Somehow he keeps sucking me back into this crap.
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smits
Here's what I have to say, and I've said it like 100 times in this thread. Tweety Bird is incorrect in his statements. A dry kit jetting to 125 hp, will not all the sudden make 150 hp when the pressure goes from 1100 to 1500. Therefore, toasted chicken is wrong...
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smits
(and you don't need to monitor a dry kit's increased pressure over a wet kits - his initial false statement)
Originally Posted by Magic Chicken
I will agree with you on the fact that you need to watch bottle pressure on a wet kit, but I'd disagree that you don't have to watch bottle pressure on a dry kit. If your pressure gets too high and spray more n2o than your MAF and injectors are capable of compensating for you're done, albeit would have to be a pretty big shot.
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smits
There is no doubt, and no one is arguing that pressure does not effects hp, that's a given (until the maximum flow is achieved). Tweety bird says on a dry kit, when the pressure gets to 1500, your 125 jets magically turn into 150 jets. Re-read all the posts from start to finish, I am 100% correct in my statements.
Originally Posted by Magic Chicken
Originally Posted by tooquick2beslo
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooquick2beslo
So say I had my bottle at 1500 psi on 125 shot jets, would I be spraying like a 150 shot then ?
Originally Posted by tooquick2beslo
So say I had my bottle at 1500 psi on 125 shot jets, would I be spraying like a 150 shot then ?
Originally Posted by Magic Chicken
FYI, take it for what it's worth.
I just got off the phone with NOS, NX, Nitrous Works, and 2 local speed shops. They all say more pressure = more nitrous. The companies that make your jets said this, if you choose not to believe it, be my guest. Call them yourselves. Doesn't matter if you're running wet or dry, more nitrous pressure = more nitrous to the engine. NOS even said that if you're jetted for a certain HP with a specific solenoid and you change the solenoid to one that flows more, you will be spraying a bigger shot through that same jet.
I will also go so far as to say yes, there is a maximum pressure at which a jet will not flow any more nitrous, but it's not in our operating range.
Can we end this now? I'd hope 3 manufacturers of n2o systems and 2 speed shops know what they are talking about, after all we use their products.
I just got off the phone with NOS, NX, Nitrous Works, and 2 local speed shops. They all say more pressure = more nitrous. The companies that make your jets said this, if you choose not to believe it, be my guest. Call them yourselves. Doesn't matter if you're running wet or dry, more nitrous pressure = more nitrous to the engine. NOS even said that if you're jetted for a certain HP with a specific solenoid and you change the solenoid to one that flows more, you will be spraying a bigger shot through that same jet.
I will also go so far as to say yes, there is a maximum pressure at which a jet will not flow any more nitrous, but it's not in our operating range.
Can we end this now? I'd hope 3 manufacturers of n2o systems and 2 speed shops know what they are talking about, after all we use their products.
Originally Posted by Magic Chicken
I'm sure something to the effect that the 3 n2o companies that make n2o systems and jets are wrong and 2 speed shops that sell the stuff and dyno tune vehicles with nitrous systems are wrong too. He has too much invested to back down. It doesn't really matter to me what he says anymore, I know the answer. This debate should be over now, I know I'm done with it.
PS. For further debate please call the following:
NOS - 270-781-9741 option 5
NX - 940-767-7694
Nitrous Works - 706-864-8544
Le-Toy Motorsports - 661-396-8100
Speed Engineering - 559-348-0200
I had no idea until just now, but Speed Engineering is also a sponsor of this site.
PS. For further debate please call the following:
NOS - 270-781-9741 option 5
NX - 940-767-7694
Nitrous Works - 706-864-8544
Le-Toy Motorsports - 661-396-8100
Speed Engineering - 559-348-0200
I had no idea until just now, but Speed Engineering is also a sponsor of this site.
Go to the dyno and do your own testing and/or call the phone numbers above.
08-27-2004, 04:14 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by Magic Chicken
I never said you need to monitor a dry kit's pressure over a wet kit.
What all those company's had to say is common knowledge, and is not even part of the debate.
So now my 125 shot at 1500 isn't a 150 shot? Maybe it's a 126 shot? Mabye it's a 127 shot? Maybe the jets will only allow it to be a 125 shot, even at 1500 psi?
I'm just giving you a hard time with the tweety bird comments, geez lighten up.
08-27-2004, 08:00 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by MilDot
Spoke with a friend who is a science teacher...
She said that the waterhose analogy is not quite accurate due to liquid vs. gas...whatever...
The opening in the orifice (jet) is smaller than the opening at the bottle. Once the maximum flow from that orifice is reached back pressure will begin to build in the hose until it eventually blows apart. That is not to say it will blow by 1500 psi but it will eventually blow...spraying nitrous into the engine bay.
Now, will a given jet flow more at 1500 psi than it does at 1100 psi? Probably so, I dont know. It should continue to increase the amount of gas released until it reaches max. and back pressure starts to build. If 125 was the true max I would think that everyone who accidentally overheated a bottle would be blowing nitrous lines. In other words there might be some safety margin built into those ratings. Not saying that the jets are over-rated just that a jet capable of flowing 125 at 1100 might flow more with increased pressure until it starts to build backpressure.
She said that the waterhose analogy is not quite accurate due to liquid vs. gas...whatever...
The opening in the orifice (jet) is smaller than the opening at the bottle. Once the maximum flow from that orifice is reached back pressure will begin to build in the hose until it eventually blows apart. That is not to say it will blow by 1500 psi but it will eventually blow...spraying nitrous into the engine bay.
Now, will a given jet flow more at 1500 psi than it does at 1100 psi? Probably so, I dont know. It should continue to increase the amount of gas released until it reaches max. and back pressure starts to build. If 125 was the true max I would think that everyone who accidentally overheated a bottle would be blowing nitrous lines. In other words there might be some safety margin built into those ratings. Not saying that the jets are over-rated just that a jet capable of flowing 125 at 1100 might flow more with increased pressure until it starts to build backpressure.
Smits,
Maybe you missed this, but yes an increase in pressure beyond the pressure at which it was rated for HP will increase HP. Hence if the rating is 125 @ 1100 psi then it will be higher(125+) at a greater psi. It will continue to increase until the orifice reaches max flow and backpressure begins to build up in the hose. You seem to think that backpressure would begin to build at 1101 psi because that jet cant possibly flow more than 125...thats incorrect.
08-27-2004, 10:02 AM
#84
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smits
What all those company's had to say is common knowledge, and is not even part of the debate.
They all say higher pressure = more nitrous to the engine. Every single one of them said if you are jetted for 125 at 1000 PSI (or whatever their recommended pressure is, NOS is 900-950, NX is 1000) and your pressure goes up to 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, etc... you will be spraying more than 125. So if you don't believe me, you HAVE to believe them! Call them and end this god awful debate. It's not fun anymore.
08-29-2004, 03:54 AM
#85
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Jimmy *****,, give it up. Magic Chicken 
your ***.
More bottle Pressure than desired equates to more nitrous being injected into the engine reguardless if its a wet or dry kit. BOTTOM line theres no way around it or anything more you can try and make fun of him about by calling him smoked chicken or whatever you came up with....
To make the garden hose example more feasible:
Turn the faucet on half way and put your thumb over the end of the hose. Now pretend this is your nitrous setup at 1100 PSI and your thumb is your 125hp jet.See the water squirts 5feet away from the end of your thumb. Now crank the faucet open 100% and pretend your bottle pressure is 1500 ( iknow thats not double, but bare with me) see the water is now squirting 12feet now. pretend thats your nitrous kit adding additional nitrous than what your 125 shot should be adding. Now take this time to let this sink in and realize Magic Chicken, me, and the damn nitrous MFGers are correct...
yah you can be a dick and try to say woo hoo it just squirts further now with the additional line pressure but you thumb is still allowing the same ammount through. Guess what>? it would be refered to as GPM gallons Per Minute and it would definately increase. JUST AS YOURS OR ANYONES NITROUS KIT WOULD IF THE BOTTLE PRESSURE INCREASES GREATLY.
- done
your ***.More bottle Pressure than desired equates to more nitrous being injected into the engine reguardless if its a wet or dry kit. BOTTOM line theres no way around it or anything more you can try and make fun of him about by calling him smoked chicken or whatever you came up with....
To make the garden hose example more feasible:
Turn the faucet on half way and put your thumb over the end of the hose. Now pretend this is your nitrous setup at 1100 PSI and your thumb is your 125hp jet.See the water squirts 5feet away from the end of your thumb. Now crank the faucet open 100% and pretend your bottle pressure is 1500 ( iknow thats not double, but bare with me) see the water is now squirting 12feet now. pretend thats your nitrous kit adding additional nitrous than what your 125 shot should be adding. Now take this time to let this sink in and realize Magic Chicken, me, and the damn nitrous MFGers are correct...
yah you can be a dick and try to say woo hoo it just squirts further now with the additional line pressure but you thumb is still allowing the same ammount through. Guess what>? it would be refered to as GPM gallons Per Minute and it would definately increase. JUST AS YOURS OR ANYONES NITROUS KIT WOULD IF THE BOTTLE PRESSURE INCREASES GREATLY.
- done
08-30-2004, 01:10 AM
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well sure I understood that... but I've seen several "nitrous fires" happen on cars at the track, that's what I was curious about, because I know n20 isn't flamable in itself.
Reply With Quote
Reply With Quote
08-30-2004, 12:46 PM
#87
when do you need to start bumping timing back? I'm getting ready to install a TNT F1 kit.I just did fuel pump and injectors and had them tuned so my fuel system is taken care of.I have window switches and a 2 step but not sure if I'm going to be able to wire that in, the 2 step that is.For now I plan on spraying a 100 shot.I'm changing my plugs to TR6's and gonna gap them at .040 and I'm running a 105 race gas mixed with 92 pump gas.When I step up to the 150 shot am I going to need a timing tuner?You guys didn't go over timing threw this hole thing
08-30-2004, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 02SOMWS6
when do you need to start bumping timing back? I'm getting ready to install a TNT F1 kit.I just did fuel pump and injectors and had them tuned so my fuel system is taken care of.I have window switches and a 2 step but not sure if I'm going to be able to wire that in, the 2 step that is.For now I plan on spraying a 100 shot.I'm changing my plugs to TR6's and gonna gap them at .040 and I'm running a 105 race gas mixed with 92 pump gas.When I step up to the 150 shot am I going to need a timing tuner?You guys didn't go over timing threw this hole thing
08-30-2004, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by z98
Why spray a truck?
That guy with the blue chevy on this site is running 10.x with 1.6 60's! That seems like a good reason to me
That guy with the blue chevy on this site is running 10.x with 1.6 60's! That seems like a good reason to me
08-30-2004, 05:29 PM
#91
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I'd just like to interject that I accidentally ran my bottle at 1200 psi on the dyno and it was the highest run of the day by about 15hp, so I'd have to concur with the chicken dude.
08-30-2004, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Magic Chicken
What those companies have to say has everything to do with this debate.
They all say higher pressure = more nitrous to the engine. Every single one of them said if you are jetted for 125 at 1000 PSI (or whatever their recommended pressure is, NOS is 900-950, NX is 1000) and your pressure goes up to 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, etc... you will be spraying more than 125. So if you don't believe me, you HAVE to believe them! Call them and end this god awful debate. It's not fun anymore.
They all say higher pressure = more nitrous to the engine. Every single one of them said if you are jetted for 125 at 1000 PSI (or whatever their recommended pressure is, NOS is 900-950, NX is 1000) and your pressure goes up to 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, etc... you will be spraying more than 125. So if you don't believe me, you HAVE to believe them! Call them and end this god awful debate. It's not fun anymore.
Both kits (High Pressure and Low Pressure) use the same #20 jet for the Nitrous because it is assumed the bottle pressure will be the same for both kits. I believe NOS recommends no more than 900psi for those particular jets at a 125 shot. If your bottle pressure exceeds 900psi (say 1100+) you will have to down size the jets and go to a smaller oriface.
Think of it this way. You have a standard 3/4" garden hose with a nozzle attachment that restricts the flow down to 1/4". This nozzle attachment will flow 20gpm at 40psi. Now go outside and crank open the pressure regulator outside your house to 80psi. I guarantee you will get a crap load more water out of the nozzle reguardless of the restriction. As pressure increases so does the output volume.
The flow rate does not increase in the same manner as pressure. That being said if you have 40psi and 20gpm, 80psi does not mean 40gpm. It is not a direct correlation. 80psi might result in 25-30gpm. Lets use the NOS direct port high pressure and low pressure system as an example. The low pressure system requires 10 times less pressure than the high pressure system (6psi to 60psi), but does not require a fuel jet 10X bigger (10 to 20).
This is why people with lower than normal bottle pressure report less horsepower gains and slower times. There is not enough pressure to push the ammount of volume needed through that particular sized jet. Likewise, if the bottle pressure is higher than normal, you will need to restrict the flow with a smaller sized jet.
Edit: P.S. Where the hell is Nitro Dave? He needs to come in and school us all.
Last edited by bad2000ss; 08-30-2004 at 05:37 PM.
