Advice on a TNT F4 Direct Port 200 shot on stock block...yes, I am crazy.
06-02-2005, 11:01 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by CAT3
Yeah I agree David, your math sucks.
our nozzles systems were orginally designed with a 300-600+ range..
then
our nozzles are designed to flow up to 350hp of nitrous and fuel
I'm not saying I dont renig playing spades or hearts (or Go Fish) but damn, back to back your getting called out!
Now, lets talk about one particular kit, a direct port kit (seems like your mixing your DP and Nozzles or something). The size of the solenoid should only be a factor if your trying to jet over the amount of solenoid capacity. So lets say your .250 orfice fuel noid should be capable of flowing up to 600hp shot size of fuel on EFI Pressure (since it does matter what the FP is as well). If your jet size of .015 (what number jet is this? Like NX would just simply call it a 15 not a .015???) on a DP kit makes 300hp, it wont change because of the Noid size. So you swap noids to a .125 orfice (we'll say good for up to 300hp shot) you would then have a max jet size of .015 on the fuel since it would total 300hp once combined with nitrous, and in that respect if you went to the smaller .098 orfice fuel noid, youd only be flowing what the noid allowed, which would be under the 300shot size.
I would rather have a solenoid too large then too small. It ensures there will be sufficient supply waiting, unlike the 5177 where ppl remove the jet and run it seeing average 140hp dry shot, thats all the orfice of the noid can flow and or nozzle. I would think your nozzles can flow quiet well and the restricition would be the solenoid, but not sure since your numbers dont jive bw your two posts above.
If your jets are not propietary then it would be easy to get whatever shot size you wanted, simply convert over to the logical jet sizing in numeric order and use smaller jets.
Of course I am using math thats good enough for me to understand, and government work so feel to slap me around like a 10# bag of welfare beans if my post doesnt make sense.
Charlie
our nozzles systems were orginally designed with a 300-600+ range..
then
our nozzles are designed to flow up to 350hp of nitrous and fuel
I'm not saying I dont renig playing spades or hearts (or Go Fish) but damn, back to back your getting called out!
Now, lets talk about one particular kit, a direct port kit (seems like your mixing your DP and Nozzles or something). The size of the solenoid should only be a factor if your trying to jet over the amount of solenoid capacity. So lets say your .250 orfice fuel noid should be capable of flowing up to 600hp shot size of fuel on EFI Pressure (since it does matter what the FP is as well). If your jet size of .015 (what number jet is this? Like NX would just simply call it a 15 not a .015???) on a DP kit makes 300hp, it wont change because of the Noid size. So you swap noids to a .125 orfice (we'll say good for up to 300hp shot) you would then have a max jet size of .015 on the fuel since it would total 300hp once combined with nitrous, and in that respect if you went to the smaller .098 orfice fuel noid, youd only be flowing what the noid allowed, which would be under the 300shot size.
I would rather have a solenoid too large then too small. It ensures there will be sufficient supply waiting, unlike the 5177 where ppl remove the jet and run it seeing average 140hp dry shot, thats all the orfice of the noid can flow and or nozzle. I would think your nozzles can flow quiet well and the restricition would be the solenoid, but not sure since your numbers dont jive bw your two posts above.
If your jets are not propietary then it would be easy to get whatever shot size you wanted, simply convert over to the logical jet sizing in numeric order and use smaller jets.
Of course I am using math thats good enough for me to understand, and government work so feel to slap me around like a 10# bag of welfare beans if my post doesnt make sense.
Charlie
hmmmm,
he sounds like he knows his ****
06-02-2005, 11:19 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by CAT3
Yeah I agree David, your math sucks.
our nozzles systems were orginally designed with a 300-600+ range..
then
our nozzles are designed to flow up to 350hp of nitrous and fuel
I'm not saying I dont renig playing spades or hearts (or Go Fish) but damn, back to back your getting called out!
Now, lets talk about one particular kit, a direct port kit (seems like your mixing your DP and Nozzles or something). The size of the solenoid should only be a factor if your trying to jet over the amount of solenoid capacity. So lets say your .250 orfice fuel noid should be capable of flowing up to 600hp shot size of fuel on EFI Pressure (since it does matter what the FP is as well). If your jet size of .015 (what number jet is this? Like NX would just simply call it a 15 not a .015???) on a DP kit makes 300hp, it wont change because of the Noid size. So you swap noids to a .125 orfice (we'll say good for up to 300hp shot) you would then have a max jet size of .015 on the fuel since it would total 300hp once combined with nitrous, and in that respect if you went to the smaller .098 orfice fuel noid, youd only be flowing what the noid allowed, which would be under the 300shot size.
I would rather have a solenoid too large then too small. It ensures there will be sufficient supply waiting, unlike the 5177 where ppl remove the jet and run it seeing average 140hp dry shot, thats all the orfice of the noid can flow and or nozzle. I would think your nozzles can flow quiet well and the restricition would be the solenoid, but not sure since your numbers dont jive bw your two posts above.
If your jets are not propietary then it would be easy to get whatever shot size you wanted, simply convert over to the logical jet sizing in numeric order and use smaller jets.
Of course I am using math thats good enough for me to understand, and government work so feel to slap me around like a 10# bag of welfare beans if my post doesnt make sense.
Charlie
our nozzles systems were orginally designed with a 300-600+ range..
then
our nozzles are designed to flow up to 350hp of nitrous and fuel
I'm not saying I dont renig playing spades or hearts (or Go Fish) but damn, back to back your getting called out!
Now, lets talk about one particular kit, a direct port kit (seems like your mixing your DP and Nozzles or something). The size of the solenoid should only be a factor if your trying to jet over the amount of solenoid capacity. So lets say your .250 orfice fuel noid should be capable of flowing up to 600hp shot size of fuel on EFI Pressure (since it does matter what the FP is as well). If your jet size of .015 (what number jet is this? Like NX would just simply call it a 15 not a .015???) on a DP kit makes 300hp, it wont change because of the Noid size. So you swap noids to a .125 orfice (we'll say good for up to 300hp shot) you would then have a max jet size of .015 on the fuel since it would total 300hp once combined with nitrous, and in that respect if you went to the smaller .098 orfice fuel noid, youd only be flowing what the noid allowed, which would be under the 300shot size.
I would rather have a solenoid too large then too small. It ensures there will be sufficient supply waiting, unlike the 5177 where ppl remove the jet and run it seeing average 140hp dry shot, thats all the orfice of the noid can flow and or nozzle. I would think your nozzles can flow quiet well and the restricition would be the solenoid, but not sure since your numbers dont jive bw your two posts above.
If your jets are not propietary then it would be easy to get whatever shot size you wanted, simply convert over to the logical jet sizing in numeric order and use smaller jets.
Of course I am using math thats good enough for me to understand, and government work so feel to slap me around like a 10# bag of welfare beans if my post doesnt make sense.
Charlie
I dont really understand the card game example Charlie but from what I gather you are under the impression that I am contridicting myself in my statement above? The nozzle systems that we offer are setup for a 300-600+hp range, and the nozzle is good to 350hp individually.. Is that what your saying??
Now im gonna have to try and analize this comment more in the morning because maybe im just tired but clear it up 4 me so I know exactly what your are saying.. "The size of the solenoid should only be a factor if your trying to jet over the amount of solenoid capacity." So you are saying that the jet is the limiting factor regardless of the solenoid size??
"If your jet size of .015 (what number jet is this? Like NX would just simply call it a 15 not a .015???) "
I apoligize for being to "technical" on giving the specific size of the jets unlike the other guys out there that call it otherwise, im sorry if that offended you..
But on a serious note do you have any suggestion's on what we can do about this dog with the horn's?? I have cut them off twice now and they grew back over night..
Last edited by David@TNT; 06-02-2005 at 11:46 PM.
06-03-2005, 01:04 AM
#23
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David...you are tired and I am on Vicadin (told myself when I was sober not to play on internet!) Sorry. Yes, it read to me that was a contradiction, not realizing you were saying each nozzle itself is rated to 350, and the DP kit rated for 300-600. Got that part staight, just looked odd using the nozzle in the two different statements.
Yes, the jets for the most part are the limiting factor.
E.g. trying to make it easier to read I guess: (assume the amounts are correct)
-4 line flows enough to feed 350hp
TNT Nozzle up to 350hp
TNT F-Noid .250 up to 600hp
TNT F-Noid .125 up to 300hp
If you jet it using the .250 for a 350 shot, you are at max capacity, as limited by nozzle and line. If you up the jets to 400 you are beyond the capability of the line and nozzle per sae, but the Noid is still good.
On the other hand if you're using the .125 and jet for 350, you are beyond the noids capacity to flow so you will only run a 300, but we all know it will lean out like a mug, run ***** out till it melts.
So not regardless, as you interpreted, but to a point the jets are the determining factor as long as it is under the capacity of all the other parts.
Can you explain the jets TNT uses? I mean are they specific to TNT kits, or just using the orifice to determine the numerical value, I dont know, thinking I am over thinking this. You have to excuse me here, being a little loopy and concentrating is hard business right now.
No offense David, but my theory on the TNT proficiency, ability to dyno 185hp gain on a 125 or 150 shot, seems to come from the difference in jetting and jetting only. If you jets fit into a NX Nozzle, I would swap them myself and dyno it back to back. I dont doubt the nozzle to play an important part in the distribution and atomization of the mixture, but I do not see there being a 40+rwhp difference in the two nozzles. And a -4 line is a -4 line is a -4 line. As is fact, on your F1 kit you could swap out both noids for the largest possible TNT makes without any other change and you will see the same power gains as you did before the noids, as with any kit out there. Take the noid of 5177 and swap out to a huge noid and you will gain a slight bit, because after the noid, the nozzle is the next limiting factor. So it comes down to jets in my opinion. I believe there is a difference in the numeric value, as described above a .015 not equal to a #15 of other kits...hard to explian...but....If you take the 100 jets for your kit and kit X, I am sure the orifice in them will be larger on yours basically.
Ok, drugs are overwhelming, will go for now. Sleep tight.
Charlie
Yes, the jets for the most part are the limiting factor.
E.g. trying to make it easier to read I guess: (assume the amounts are correct)
-4 line flows enough to feed 350hp
TNT Nozzle up to 350hp
TNT F-Noid .250 up to 600hp
TNT F-Noid .125 up to 300hp
If you jet it using the .250 for a 350 shot, you are at max capacity, as limited by nozzle and line. If you up the jets to 400 you are beyond the capability of the line and nozzle per sae, but the Noid is still good.
On the other hand if you're using the .125 and jet for 350, you are beyond the noids capacity to flow so you will only run a 300, but we all know it will lean out like a mug, run ***** out till it melts.
So not regardless, as you interpreted, but to a point the jets are the determining factor as long as it is under the capacity of all the other parts.
Can you explain the jets TNT uses? I mean are they specific to TNT kits, or just using the orifice to determine the numerical value, I dont know, thinking I am over thinking this. You have to excuse me here, being a little loopy and concentrating is hard business right now.
No offense David, but my theory on the TNT proficiency, ability to dyno 185hp gain on a 125 or 150 shot, seems to come from the difference in jetting and jetting only. If you jets fit into a NX Nozzle, I would swap them myself and dyno it back to back. I dont doubt the nozzle to play an important part in the distribution and atomization of the mixture, but I do not see there being a 40+rwhp difference in the two nozzles. And a -4 line is a -4 line is a -4 line. As is fact, on your F1 kit you could swap out both noids for the largest possible TNT makes without any other change and you will see the same power gains as you did before the noids, as with any kit out there. Take the noid of 5177 and swap out to a huge noid and you will gain a slight bit, because after the noid, the nozzle is the next limiting factor. So it comes down to jets in my opinion. I believe there is a difference in the numeric value, as described above a .015 not equal to a #15 of other kits...hard to explian...but....If you take the 100 jets for your kit and kit X, I am sure the orifice in them will be larger on yours basically.
Ok, drugs are overwhelming, will go for now. Sleep tight.
Charlie
Cant give up the vic, maybe the roxi though, ughh what a stomach turner.
06-04-2005, 01:30 AM
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cat 5 you seem to be comparing only one jet where as a DP for us v8 guys will have 8 fuel jets so with that wouldnt you need more fuel flow since your COMBINED jet orfice size will be slightly larger therefore flowing more fuel? or would it even be larger? using this nitrous calaulator http://www.robietherobot.com/NitrousJetCalculator.htm
a v8 direct port wet shot at 45 psi with a bottle pressure at 900 psi will need a nitrous jet size of .030 and a fuel jet size of .016 to be condiderd a 276hp shot according to his formula
where as a single nozzle kit at 45 psi with a bottle pressure at 900 psi will need a nitrous jet size of .085 and a fuel jet of .047 for a 277hp shot
so using this calculator as a base shows that with a direct port wet kit you have a good chance of using more fuel therefore maxing out the fuel noid much sooner. but as far as swapping to a smaller noid for a smaller shot just sounds wrong to me and it shouldnt matter since the point of the jet is to create that restriction as long as you have considerable flow you should be good. now i dont know if this correct but it seems to make the most sence to me
a v8 direct port wet shot at 45 psi with a bottle pressure at 900 psi will need a nitrous jet size of .030 and a fuel jet size of .016 to be condiderd a 276hp shot according to his formula
where as a single nozzle kit at 45 psi with a bottle pressure at 900 psi will need a nitrous jet size of .085 and a fuel jet of .047 for a 277hp shot
so using this calculator as a base shows that with a direct port wet kit you have a good chance of using more fuel therefore maxing out the fuel noid much sooner. but as far as swapping to a smaller noid for a smaller shot just sounds wrong to me and it shouldnt matter since the point of the jet is to create that restriction as long as you have considerable flow you should be good. now i dont know if this correct but it seems to make the most sence to me
06-06-2005, 09:21 AM
#28
David is right.The TNT directports are better used on a 300 pluss setting.There nozzle are not desighned to spray under that.They can get you jetting for the 200 shot but are not a fan of using it.
Look into the NX directports setup.There kits are easily jetted to a 200 shot and much cheaper.
Dave
Look into the NX directports setup.There kits are easily jetted to a 200 shot and much cheaper.
Dave
06-06-2005, 09:35 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet
David is right.The TNT directports are better used on a 300 pluss setting.There nozzle are not desighned to spray under that.They can get you jetting for the 200 shot but are not a fan of using it.
Look into the NX directports setup.There kits are easily jetted to a 200 shot and much cheaper.
Dave
Look into the NX directports setup.There kits are easily jetted to a 200 shot and much cheaper.
Dave
06-06-2005, 10:43 AM
#30
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We have jetting and the jets to take a nozzle system down to 100hp on high pressure. But a more accurate way is to run a low pressure system 10psi, then you can get 50hp and up. What jets do you need, we have them down to a 10.
Ricky
Ricky
