gollum

iTrader: (1)

Will my SLP Smooth Bellow and throttle cable bracket connect right up without modding. What else do I need to do to make the LS2 intake fit my 2002 SS?

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

High pressure You get more ridiculous with every post! lol

Brains

iTrader: (7)

Egads, what a thread full of crap... Let me make this simple...

Q: Why does a wet kit blow my intake to smithereens when I spray a 200 shot at 1500 RPM?

A: Because you don't have the intake velocity necessary to consume the amount of fuel+oxidizer where you want the **** to ignite -- the combustion chamber. I don't give a crap if you put a 12cc plenum or a 150,000cc plenum on the motor -- if you stack it full of a fuel (atomized gasoline in our example) and the oxygen to burn it, leave it there, and then ignite it, its going to go "bang" This is not a question of "puddling" (pure bullshit)... Puddling fuel with a wet kit and blowing your intake is NOT POSSIBLE. Its not a problem with fuel dropping out of suspension, because LIQUID FUEL IS NOT EXPLOSIVE. Want proof? Take a big metal container and put a few gallons of gas in it. Go somewhere safe where you won't kill yourself or burn your house down. Throw a match on it. What happens, are you still alive? Did it blow a crater in your head? NO! Because gas is not explosive IN LIQUID FORM. So, that means only one thing -- if your intake blew up, the fuel was in suspension. Kinda kills that whole "puddling" crap now doesn't it?

Now, why does a properly setup and properly utilized wet kit not blow the intake up? Simple - the engine is moving enough air to consume what's being delivered through the intake. That's the purpose of not activating the kit until you have sufficient RPM to make use of it.

Also, those posts about carbed cars backfiring -- a lean condition will generate a LOT more backfires than a rich condition ever will.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Brains, what you say is basically true; however, there's more to it. When I was kid, I did exactly what you suggested. I was on the side of my house with a 1-pound coffe can full of gasoline and had lit it on fire. True to what you said, it was only burning on the top, no expolsoin. Then I hear my mother coming and panic, as she turns the corner, I kick the can and still no explosion, but rather a nice fireball with an ever expanding fire. My point has allways been that the collected fuel is a source to feed an expanding explosion/fire and not the source itself. The design of these manifolds allows pockets and/or areas of low velocity for fuel to collect. I have sited published text on this issue/subject before. My take on why the ls1/ls6, when having a fuel fed back fire, is so damaging compared to a normal manifold that has the plenum above the runners is two fold, and sited in previous post.

Someone should do test on one of these manifolds and prove/disprove the puddling issue, once and for all.
Robert

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Here's a classic example of how liquid fuel feeds a vapor explosion.
Z06 Wet Backfire

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Robert that is more of a Example of someone not running a system properly.From what I hear this guy bypassed his window switch.The car bogged and Boom.Im gusessing that it must have busted a fuel line or something to go up in flames like it did.
Dave

Brains

iTrader: (7)

Okay, by your theory this should be a recipe for disaster What about spraying the nitrous kit while leaving the bottle valve closed? That should, by the reasoning presented in this thread, be the end of the intake manifold as we know it. But alas, that hasn't **EVER** happened to me, and I've done it both intentionally and accidentally. In fact, when I was testing a couple nitrous kits (both NXL direct port and a single nozzle kit) on my Formula, I did it no less than 5 times in a row at IDLE (800 RPM) while taking video of the underhood fuel pressure gauge. Amazingly enough, my intake manifold is still in one piece, as is my face and my camera. So, there goes the fuel puddling argument again, wouldn't you say?

What would it take to prove or disprove these arguments, once and for all? I have a spare intake manifold I'd be perfectly happy to sacrifice.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Unfortintly the only way to prove anything would be to make a clear intake.You would have to run it on the motor so that everything is the same.
No company or person is going to foot the money on something like this.So it will just be a good enternet arguement that will be brought up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. LOL
Dave

Brains

iTrader: (7)

So what you're saying is someone will bring it up again, eh?

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Uhhh Its possible.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Correcta Mundo. Yes, fuel pressure bleeding off. The point I was making is the liquid gas as the fuel for the fire. A fire that was vapor started.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Yes, it can be a recipe for disaster. Try that with the wrong cam and you will certainly get your ignition source. Just because it has happened to you, doesn't mean it will not happen. Look at the Z06 video again, something ignited the fuel in the manifold. If the fuel was not present it would not have been an explosion. Granted this usually happens because of end user error. I am not trying to dissaude anyone from wet kits, but rather putting info out for all to see.
Robert

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

I bled my bottle and line down EVERYTIME I opened then closed the remote opener using this same method with a TNT 150 shot! Literally HUNDREDS of times. This is NOT the cause of a low rpm explosion... Try spraying a DRY KIT at low rpms and let me know what happens....Please videotape. Then explain where the extra fuel came from causing the explosion that sent a piston through your fender. I didnt have a purge and this method worked well not to mention was an easy way to test for fuel noid failure by bogging the engine down.

The biggest problem I have seen with any wet kit is fuel noid failure which happens quite often causing a LEAN condition. With a dry kit anything that lessons fuel ratio, (fuel filter, injector, MAF) can all cause a LEAN condition resulting in catastrophic failure.

Next try this experiment: While smoking a cigarette have someone add a little pure O2 and watch your nose fly off like a cruise missle bound for Sadaams palace. You didnt add fuel now did ya.

PS. The fire after a nitrous explosion has nothing to do with what caused the actual explosion. As I have suggested try spraying a dry 150 shot below 1500rpms...

Brains

iTrader: (7)

Is a 238/240 @ .050, 298 intake at .006 I think, .605/.609 lift on a 112 big enough for you? It hasn't happened to me, and it hasn't happened to literally thousands of other folks. How many of us have sprayed while forgetting to open the bottle valve? That's spraying raw LIQUID fuel down the intake manifold, and it NEVER blows up.

You may be trying to put information out here, but its incorrect info I'm afraid. Some of us have, for years, done what you say will cause disaster and never suffered any ill effects. We know what causes a nitrous backfire, and we do what is necessary to avoid one. The nitrous kit vendors have given us the tools to make the chances of disaster all but non existant, unless the user intentionally defeats one of those devices (like the Z/06 guy). Having a wet kit or a dry kit really makes no difference (in damage potential, anyway) at all, as long it is used properly and tuned properly.

You can pretty much hear what happened with the Z/06 -- and the folks who were at Great Lakes Dragaway (my old home track, BTW) confirmed it. He defeated the window switch, and possibly also left the traction control on. Since the WOT switch was hooked to the pedal, and the vette has a fly-by-wire throttle (trac. ctrl. would close the throttle), and the fact the RPM's bogged HARD because of this combo, it set him up for a backfire. When the backfire blew up the intake, it very likely lifted the fuel rails -- which is now a very nice source of a TON of fuel to ignite on the hot headers or possibly even from the residual explosion of the intake.

Everyone seems to have strong opinions on this topic, but it appears the biggest nay sayers have never tried what they preach. I've never seen any empirical evidence that someone blew their car up with a properly installed, tuned, and operated nitrous kit. EVERY SINGLE TIME I've been able to find the cause, and usually the user knew too

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

WOW I missed a lot on this one...
Ricky

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

A little contradictrary. I never said if a kit was set up correctly you'ed have problems. I have used many wet kits (first one in the late seventys) and had back fires through the intake and no problems/damage (remember the plenum above the runners). We did not have all the safety stuff back then. People try to deny wet backfire/intake removals, but the fact of the matter is they do/can happen. Have I or thousands of other people had there piston melted down because of a lean/blow torch effect, on a dry kit, no. Does this mean it dosen't happen, no. If this is not a wet kit issue, show me one dry intake removal and I will shut up. Oh, by the way, nice cam.
Robert

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

God I hate this arguement....kinda like argueing about politics or religion.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

True, but I like to call it debating rather than arguing.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

debating/arguing... Its FUN!