Ok throttle closes I do not care how abrupt, the system is off before the blade closes... And since the maf is before the system hot wire thinking is out the door.
I am sincing alot of anger from your post you must be either be a dry user, non-user, or had it handed to you too many times by a wet kit..

Ricky

These comments and views are mine and not neccessarily the comments views of NX or any member of the NX team. So take them for what its worth to you, nothing is expressed, implied, or intended that other wise means a hill of beans. lol .

 

I could say the same about yours

Not everyone will be running your WOT switch. No system is 100% safe, but especially not this one.

 

One thing that can be said about XTrooper is that he generally doesn't have his head up his ***. However, sadly, the same doesn't apply for you.

 

If someone is foolish enough to be spraying nitrous without either a WOT or TPS switch, they're asking for trouble no matter which system they have, not just this one.

 

Oh no, boyfriend to the rescue.
I had a point to make unlike you two. Neither of you know me, so your assumed superior positions are unfounded.
Xtrooper may be a good guy, but his only posting to slight my position was really asking for more than he got from me, along with having no place in a technical forum.
If you're that bent on trying to insult me then take it to PM.

Wet systems are notorious for creating mis-fires, back-fires, and BIG-fires. The wet advocates are the ones in denial. Dry users do not deny that wet systems can work and make great power, but the wet advocates want to deny the risk of fire and tend to want to blame the user for making some mistake.
People make mistakes, that is a reality that nitrous companies have to accept.
To me, injecting fuel before the throttle valve is asking for problems.
I have a right to my opinion on that.
Also, the fire videos will come. You can put money on that fact.

 

Backfires, etc just don't happen, they're caused for a reason and that reason is one of three things. Either the person was spraying while not at WOT, was spraying at below 3000 rpm, or was spraying too big of a shot for something other than a direct port system.

If you make certain that you onlly spray at WOT and at an engine speed over 3000 rpm and you keep the shot size within reason, that fire video will be a long time coming.

To claim or infer that every wet system is a disaster waiting to happen is to ignore the reality of the situation which is that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of wet system users out there and very few "fire videos" result from them.

 

A true blue wet guy, with Denial as his best friend. Needed mostly to justify buying a wet kit when in fact, dry is safer.



































Ha! Ha! Just busting your *****.
Robert

 

You had me wondering there for a minute, Robert!

Actually, with my baby shot (75), I'm confident that I could safely run with almost any system out there.

I think when you get to the 150+ range is when you have to at least start thinking direct port if you want to play it safe with a wet system.

 

That's better at least.
I disagree of course.
You only mentioned a small fraction of the reasons that can cause a backfire during operation of a wet system..
IMO one of the bigger causes is fuel distribution problems inside the intake manifold. This causes some cylinders to be leaner and/or richer than the average of them together. Sometimes a cylinder will be far enough off to cause a misfire. Sometimes a lean cylinder will build up enough heat in the plug and/or valve to create ignition during the intake stroke.

Another cause can be aftermarket camshafts with significant overlap. Depending on dynamic pressure differential around the intake valve during overlap, a bit of exhaust gas may be allowed to revearse flow past the intake valve increasing the chance of ignition in the intake port.
Many users actually set the conditions for this by retarding their spark and running excessively rich as recommended by the N2O companies for the sake of safety. This actually gives more chance of burning fuel being reverse flowed during overlap. All it takes is lower pressure in the intake port than what is seen at the exhaust port... very easy to accomplish. Cams with overlap make this possible.

Yet another cause is a single instance of a valve floating or not seating correctly at some point during the cycle allowing burning exhaust gas to backflow into the chamber during some part of the intake cycle. This is probably more rare, but still can happen.

These (and more) conditions happen with both wet and dry N2O systems. The key difference is that with a dry system your intake isn't full of fuel vapor, and hence no explosion & big fire. That is the key difference.
Some of the wet advocates seriously confuse the issue to the point of arguing the "fuel puddling" as being impossible to create the explosion or fire.
It's not the puddled fuel that explodes. It's the conditons that fuel puddling causes (fuel distribution error) that sets up for the backfire in the first place.

A key advantage of a dry system is that the fuel distribution doesn't get changed, and of course your entire intake tract isn't full of fuel vapor.
If you've made a user blunder, or just that murphy's law just came knocking, you're much safer with the dry system.

This is perhaps the 10th time these things have been explained for you wet advocates, and it may never sink in. Saying I have my head up my *** is not a valid argument. Posting a video of a car running 8's with a wet system is also not an argument.
I have considerable experience using both wet and dry N2O systems, and possibly even more experience than some of you old timers that may work for a N2O system distributor. I am almost 40. If you have good arguments then by all means post them. Technical forums are great for increasing knowledge.
I still hold that all the wet-N2O fires/explosion videos are indeed supporting evidence to my own stand on the issue. I think it would be a very safe bet to say that additional fire videos of this new post-MAF wet system will follow.

I think you are generally correct about the ways a wet user can reduce the chance of a backfire, but why the denial still about the rest of the picture?

Backfires don't just happen is an argument?
You know here in the reality I see there are a lot of wet users running big overlap cams and backing off the throttle during shifts with a manual trans. Yes the N2O system shuts off for a split second, but the plenum is still full of fuel vapor. Even some of the automatic guys are still running with torque managment that retards timing into the ATDC zone with the N2O still flowing.

Not a disaster waiting to happen you say? Well that's an area of opinion. I have stated some facts though.

 

So true, and there is much, much more that proves dry is safer, however, I am working on a WET system for my Harley today, and don't feel like getting into the rest of it. Did I really say that? Maybe tonight.
Very well said white2001s10.
Robert

 

It seems you are quite new to nitrous as I read your "first nitrous dyno" post. You also seem to lean towards the extra safety features which isn't really a bad idea. It also wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a couple of fire extinguishers with you in your car.
Who knows? perhaps one day NX or others will ship the extinguishers along with their kits.
I do know you are biased in that you purchased one of these kits, so don't take it to heart please. I hope my posting was at least informative about what could happen. Also welcome to the dark side of nitrous and good luck with your track runs.
I am a year and a half away from retiring ADAF myself, and a die-hard nitrous user..

 

chemistry lesson for dumbass. Autoignition is the temperature that gasoline will ignite without a hot spot, spark, or other form of ignition source, like an extremely hot wire.

 

It's my undestanding that the wire typically runs around 300*F say at cruise speed... adding around 200* over ambient, but it really wouldn't surprise me if it spiked up to around 500* during a WOT blast. I'd guess the spike in temp would happen right about the time you closed the throttle abruptly, which would be quite a nice match (no pun) for this post-MAF system.

The burnoff cycle is said to be right around 1000*F, so it's obviously capable of seeing this temperature.
Still I would bet that most of the fires won't be due to the MAF hotwire, but it's just an added candidate.

 

All joking aside, I DO carry a halon fire extinguisher in my car. I've been doing for some time now.

Yes, I'm fairly new to nitrous, but I did a lot of research and am a quick study. I think I made an informed decision when I decided on my wet system.

Good luck on your job and in your retirement when it comes. I've been retired since 1991 and have enjoyed every moment of it.

 

Well thank you, and I know you have to be enjoying it! I'm counting the days. Also, I hope you never have need to use that extinguisher unless you're helping out someone else. I definately don't prefer the flame-look myself. Nice looking vette by the way, but aren't they all nice?