Nitrous Pressure Discussion.
12-13-2005, 11:57 AM
#41
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On topic, since I'm doing things backwards, would you mind explaining the huge power gain I consistantly measure from 1500 psi vs the 1000psi under your magic power-drop mark ?
Assume the same tune (because you can in this case I'm telling you), and tell us all how less nitrous flow ends up being more power to the ground.
This should be great.
The floor is yours.
Assume the same tune (because you can in this case I'm telling you), and tell us all how less nitrous flow ends up being more power to the ground.
This should be great.
The floor is yours.
Last edited by white2001s10; 12-13-2005 at 05:46 PM.
12-13-2005, 12:12 PM
#42
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white2000s10, were you recording any a/f readings when running your system? I am only asking because it looks to me like there is a good chance that by running 1500+psig the tune is actually running a little rich rather than leaner due to the N2O being less dense. However, this could also not be the case of the breakover point of decreasing/increasing flow is between 1051psig and 1500psig. Just curious.
12-13-2005, 12:28 PM
#43
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The tune was absolutely not richer. In fact it goes lean and you must adjust with more fuel or it's plug death.
Tune to the lean edge and then double your pressure & see what happens. Rich is not what you'll get.
Whoever is confident that this happens, I say go try it. Post back with your melted plugs or ventilated pistons.
My own testing has shown that the only time running richer gives more power is if you're doing something wrong. You're either flowing wet through a dry-flow intake with massive distribution error, or your intake air temp is unreasonably high and the extra fuel is needed as coolant.
Maybe some guys are doing something wrong. I wouldn't doubt it at this point.
To me, there was never any reason to bring the supercritical issue into the discussion. No matter what is happening in the bottle, the practical results are the same.
Since it seems a few here are getting their information about supercritical fluids most likely from the internet, I figure I can do that too.
http://www.pnl.gov/supercriticalfluid/about.stm
quote: "Characterisitics of a supercritical fluid are
Dense gas
Solubilities approaching liquid phase
Diffusivities approaching gas phase.
Mass transfer is rapid with supercritical fluids. Their dynamic viscosities are nearer to those found in normal gaseous states."
Sounds to me like more viscosity would flow faster through the system. It also sounds like there may not be a significant loss of density at this point. The mass is still very dense but acts like a gas in some ways.
After this post I could be considered an internet brainiac and be part of the club.
Tune to the lean edge and then double your pressure & see what happens. Rich is not what you'll get.
Whoever is confident that this happens, I say go try it. Post back with your melted plugs or ventilated pistons.
My own testing has shown that the only time running richer gives more power is if you're doing something wrong. You're either flowing wet through a dry-flow intake with massive distribution error, or your intake air temp is unreasonably high and the extra fuel is needed as coolant.
Maybe some guys are doing something wrong. I wouldn't doubt it at this point.
To me, there was never any reason to bring the supercritical issue into the discussion. No matter what is happening in the bottle, the practical results are the same.
Since it seems a few here are getting their information about supercritical fluids most likely from the internet, I figure I can do that too.
http://www.pnl.gov/supercriticalfluid/about.stm
quote: "Characterisitics of a supercritical fluid are
Dense gas
Solubilities approaching liquid phase
Diffusivities approaching gas phase.
Mass transfer is rapid with supercritical fluids. Their dynamic viscosities are nearer to those found in normal gaseous states."
Sounds to me like more viscosity would flow faster through the system. It also sounds like there may not be a significant loss of density at this point. The mass is still very dense but acts like a gas in some ways.
After this post I could be considered an internet brainiac and be part of the club.
12-13-2005, 12:30 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by white2001s10
Nice technical post. By the way I can't wait to get my first 8 second timeslip and my license to be an ***. Does making insulting posts actually help your business? I see you're a sponsor so I'm curious if this strategy actually works for you.
On topic, since I'm doing things backwards, would you mind explaining the huge power gain I consistantly measure from 1500 psi vs the 1000psi under your magic power-drop mark ?
Assume the same tune (because you can in this case I'm telling you), and tell us all how less nitrous flow ends up being more power to the ground.
This should be great.
The floor is yours.
On topic, since I'm doing things backwards, would you mind explaining the huge power gain I consistantly measure from 1500 psi vs the 1000psi under your magic power-drop mark ?
Assume the same tune (because you can in this case I'm telling you), and tell us all how less nitrous flow ends up being more power to the ground.
This should be great.
The floor is yours.
The simple fact of the matter is that it takes so much fuel to make so much horsepower. That's simply the bottom line. Nitrous is not a fuel, it's an oxidizer. You saw a power increase at 1,500 PSI because your tune ended up being richer (less nitrous), which got you closer to an ideal N/F ratio.
It's as simple as that. No magic, no voodoo, just plain common sense.
12-13-2005, 12:47 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Ben R
The simple fact of the matter is that it takes so much fuel to make so much horsepower. That's simply the bottom line. Nitrous is not a fuel, it's an oxidizer. You saw a power increase at 1,500 PSI because your tune ended up being richer (less nitrous), which got you closer to an ideal N/F ratio.
A pretty good percent of that fuel is going out the exhaust unburned even when you're using the nitrous. It actually takes less mass of fuel than what some people believe to make the power. A good chunk of the fuel is thrown in as coolant to control the burn. A wet kit throws in even more extra fuel to make up for lean cylinders due to distribution error, and is for the most part wasted.
If you already have a handle on temp in the chamber and you don't have significant distribution error then extra fuel is going to slow you down.
On your last point, see my previous post. Tune to the lean edge, then double your pressure, then post the pics of the remains.
Last edited by white2001s10; 12-13-2005 at 05:46 PM.
12-13-2005, 01:11 PM
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white2000s10, I'm sensing alot of hostility from you. I just asked a simple question because I was curious. Obviously you didn't record any a/f readings, that's all I wanted to know, yes or no. The reason I wanted to know was because I am just trying to explore all avenues concerning pressure/temp, density, and flow characteristics of nitrous oxide. Which by the way, if you had noticed, there is a considerable drop in density as pressure increases. So, a less dense mixture would yeild a lower N/F ratio, which in case you don't know, is a richer mixture.
Not to mention, you CAN make more power by running richer if your tune is off because you will reach the ideal N/F ratio for the particular engine you are running. Also, leaner does not always mean more power. You can, and will, reach a point of deminishing return. Granted, that point might be beyond the physical capabilities of some engines, but it is still there.
The reason the supercritical state of nitrous was brought up was because it's a phase change, which in turn will affect it's characteristics. So I would say it is pretty important to understand the flow characteristics concerning density, temp, and pressure while in the supercritical state. Also, it would be interesting to see what is affected, if anything, by the reaped phase changes as the nitrous travels through out the system compared to using a lower pressure and having the nitrous not change as many times.
Lastly, I didn't get my information from the internet. Some of us actually go through college to get an education in something other than a BS in Business or Accounting (no offense/disrespect intended to those that have those degrees, I just used it as an example because they generally have the highest number of graduates each semester). I have studied Chemestry and Molecular Physics with in the last couple of years, which doesn't make me an expert in the field by any means. But I'm sure as hell not an "internet brainiac".
Once you've actually done some R&D of your own instead of copying/pasting from other's research on the internet you can join what ever club it is you are referring to.
Sorry for the bitch seesion to those that have contributed quality information in this thread. Please continue, this is a very interesting topic.
Not to mention, you CAN make more power by running richer if your tune is off because you will reach the ideal N/F ratio for the particular engine you are running. Also, leaner does not always mean more power. You can, and will, reach a point of deminishing return. Granted, that point might be beyond the physical capabilities of some engines, but it is still there.
The reason the supercritical state of nitrous was brought up was because it's a phase change, which in turn will affect it's characteristics. So I would say it is pretty important to understand the flow characteristics concerning density, temp, and pressure while in the supercritical state. Also, it would be interesting to see what is affected, if anything, by the reaped phase changes as the nitrous travels through out the system compared to using a lower pressure and having the nitrous not change as many times.
Lastly, I didn't get my information from the internet. Some of us actually go through college to get an education in something other than a BS in Business or Accounting (no offense/disrespect intended to those that have those degrees, I just used it as an example because they generally have the highest number of graduates each semester). I have studied Chemestry and Molecular Physics with in the last couple of years, which doesn't make me an expert in the field by any means. But I'm sure as hell not an "internet brainiac".
Once you've actually done some R&D of your own instead of copying/pasting from other's research on the internet you can join what ever club it is you are referring to.
Sorry for the bitch seesion to those that have contributed quality information in this thread. Please continue, this is a very interesting topic.
12-13-2005, 02:18 PM
#48
Exactly what i was wondering..nobody asked yet. Maybe 1500psi at the bottle minus some error correction in the guage, and pressure drop before the jets, and viola!! 1050 at the jets. lol perfect.
12-13-2005, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Var
Exactly what i was wondering..nobody asked yet. Maybe 1500psi at the bottle minus some error correction in the guage, and pressure drop before the jets, and viola!! 1050 at the jets. lol perfect.
12-13-2005, 02:51 PM
#50
Something to keep in mind, is the fact that a bottles temp at a static temp still will have a varing flow/density as bottle wieght goes down. Example, a 15lb full weight bottle will be at approx 1150psi at 95*, the same bottle at 95* and 3lb's of nitrous reamaining will be about 600psi. My conclusion, it seems from data presented, as density increases pressure and power decreases. any thoughts/insight?
So does anyone know where or how long this supercritical state lasts? Why I ask, it seems running 1150psi at first purging you get a cloud as per normal, then for a period of time (maybe the area of supercritical) it seems it purges only vapor/gas, then latter comes back per normal. However, running dry the pcm is making calcs to compansate for density (a wet cannot) that overall performance, as far as I can tell has increased, and dosen't fall off during the supercritical phase?
Good talk here, you won't find this dedicated bunch of nitrous heads on any other forum.
Robert
So does anyone know where or how long this supercritical state lasts? Why I ask, it seems running 1150psi at first purging you get a cloud as per normal, then for a period of time (maybe the area of supercritical) it seems it purges only vapor/gas, then latter comes back per normal. However, running dry the pcm is making calcs to compansate for density (a wet cannot) that overall performance, as far as I can tell has increased, and dosen't fall off during the supercritical phase?
Good talk here, you won't find this dedicated bunch of nitrous heads on any other forum.
Robert
12-13-2005, 03:27 PM
#51
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All this talk of supercritical fluid dynamics is very interesting... here's some food for thought.
IMO Nitrous Oxide should be used while in a supercritical state. I'll take two state changes versus 1 any day of the week. Here's my take on the situation with regard to ultra-high pressure nitrous shots.
At atmospheric pressure and room temp nitrous cannot exist as a liquid, so we compress it until it changes state into a liquid. Now with supercritical fluids we continue to increase pressure and temp until the liquid passes it's critical point it assumes all those lovely features that have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.
Now in small bottle setups you may be at 1100 psi (supercritical) but as soon as you hit the button your bottle pressure drops to subcritical levels so this explains why you 1100 or 1200 psi small bottle guys or no heater guys don't experience the full effect. Big bottle guys running 1200+ might not go subcritical when they press the button and thusly get the following benefits.
As we all know, when Nitrous makes a state change from liquid to gas it absorbs tremendous heat from the intake charge. This greatly increases the density of charge meaning you can take advantage of more fuel in the correct proportions. Now imagine the additional charge cooling effect from another state change event happening, the additional cooling effects further increasing the density of the charge. This is of course all without taking into account the effect of the additional oxidizer released by the breakdown of Nitrous in the combustion process. Net result is that you can burn more fuel in the right proportions in the same space.
I'm no physicist but a quick peruse of the theory and application of supercritical fluids makes me think that this is an example of why it works so well fro White2001S10. He uses a BIG bottle at tremendous presure with very little in the way of connectors and restrictions. His results may not be replicatable with the testing methods here because of the above (if my theory is correct). In his defense White2001S10 has many many years of reliable and meticulously tested Nitrous data. I have personally witnessed much of it and it is as he says. The reasons may be questioned but the results are tangible.
IMO Nitrous Oxide should be used while in a supercritical state. I'll take two state changes versus 1 any day of the week. Here's my take on the situation with regard to ultra-high pressure nitrous shots.
At atmospheric pressure and room temp nitrous cannot exist as a liquid, so we compress it until it changes state into a liquid. Now with supercritical fluids we continue to increase pressure and temp until the liquid passes it's critical point it assumes all those lovely features that have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.
Now in small bottle setups you may be at 1100 psi (supercritical) but as soon as you hit the button your bottle pressure drops to subcritical levels so this explains why you 1100 or 1200 psi small bottle guys or no heater guys don't experience the full effect. Big bottle guys running 1200+ might not go subcritical when they press the button and thusly get the following benefits.
As we all know, when Nitrous makes a state change from liquid to gas it absorbs tremendous heat from the intake charge. This greatly increases the density of charge meaning you can take advantage of more fuel in the correct proportions. Now imagine the additional charge cooling effect from another state change event happening, the additional cooling effects further increasing the density of the charge. This is of course all without taking into account the effect of the additional oxidizer released by the breakdown of Nitrous in the combustion process. Net result is that you can burn more fuel in the right proportions in the same space.
I'm no physicist but a quick peruse of the theory and application of supercritical fluids makes me think that this is an example of why it works so well fro White2001S10. He uses a BIG bottle at tremendous presure with very little in the way of connectors and restrictions. His results may not be replicatable with the testing methods here because of the above (if my theory is correct). In his defense White2001S10 has many many years of reliable and meticulously tested Nitrous data. I have personally witnessed much of it and it is as he says. The reasons may be questioned but the results are tangible.
12-13-2005, 03:41 PM
#52
Originally Posted by NXJeremy
I would like to do the test myself, but I don't think Ricky would like me using that much nitrous for a test like this, haha, and I don't have the money to buy that much just to release it into the air.
Robert
12-13-2005, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert56
I'll bet Ricky has pleny of credit cards you can use.
Robert
Robert
Believe me, I wouldn't want to try and use any credit cards of his since he's put more than enough money into that race car of his. Which by the way Ricky, you need to run out to the shop and work on it alittle while your sitting at home today
. Plus, it's not so much Ricky that I would be most worried about, rather the boss above him would probably 
when he saw how much nitrous I would have to use for this test, haha.
12-13-2005, 04:27 PM
#54
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Lets say you want to flow supercritical nitrous, and set up your system accordingly. It seems to me that the density has to make dramatic changes depending on the ammount in the bottle. Since it evenly disperses itself inside the bottle if you have 10lbs in your bottle you have to have twice the density of when you have 5lbs in the bottle even if the pressures are the same above 1050psi. That would be a difficult car to tune since your mass flow rate would change so much from such a big change in density.
Vinny
Vinny
Originally Posted by Homeslice (tm)
All this talk of supercritical fluid dynamics is very interesting... here's some food for thought.
IMO Nitrous Oxide should be used while in a supercritical state. I'll take two state changes versus 1 any day of the week. Here's my take on the situation with regard to ultra-high pressure nitrous shots.
At atmospheric pressure and room temp nitrous cannot exist as a liquid, so we compress it until it changes state into a liquid. Now with supercritical fluids we continue to increase pressure and temp until the liquid passes it's critical point it assumes all those lovely features that have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.
Now in small bottle setups you may be at 1100 psi (supercritical) but as soon as you hit the button your bottle pressure drops to subcritical levels so this explains why you 1100 or 1200 psi small bottle guys or no heater guys don't experience the full effect. Big bottle guys running 1200+ might not go subcritical when they press the button and thusly get the following benefits.
As we all know, when Nitrous makes a state change from liquid to gas it absorbs tremendous heat from the intake charge. This greatly increases the density of charge meaning you can take advantage of more fuel in the correct proportions. Now imagine the additional charge cooling effect from another state change event happening, the additional cooling effects further increasing the density of the charge. This is of course all without taking into account the effect of the additional oxidizer released by the breakdown of Nitrous in the combustion process. Net result is that you can burn more fuel in the right proportions in the same space.
I'm no physicist but a quick peruse of the theory and application of supercritical fluids makes me think that this is an example of why it works so well fro White2001S10. He uses a BIG bottle at tremendous presure with very little in the way of connectors and restrictions. His results may not be replicatable with the testing methods here because of the above (if my theory is correct). In his defense White2001S10 has many many years of reliable and meticulously tested Nitrous data. I have personally witnessed much of it and it is as he says. The reasons may be questioned but the results are tangible.
IMO Nitrous Oxide should be used while in a supercritical state. I'll take two state changes versus 1 any day of the week. Here's my take on the situation with regard to ultra-high pressure nitrous shots.
At atmospheric pressure and room temp nitrous cannot exist as a liquid, so we compress it until it changes state into a liquid. Now with supercritical fluids we continue to increase pressure and temp until the liquid passes it's critical point it assumes all those lovely features that have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.
Now in small bottle setups you may be at 1100 psi (supercritical) but as soon as you hit the button your bottle pressure drops to subcritical levels so this explains why you 1100 or 1200 psi small bottle guys or no heater guys don't experience the full effect. Big bottle guys running 1200+ might not go subcritical when they press the button and thusly get the following benefits.
As we all know, when Nitrous makes a state change from liquid to gas it absorbs tremendous heat from the intake charge. This greatly increases the density of charge meaning you can take advantage of more fuel in the correct proportions. Now imagine the additional charge cooling effect from another state change event happening, the additional cooling effects further increasing the density of the charge. This is of course all without taking into account the effect of the additional oxidizer released by the breakdown of Nitrous in the combustion process. Net result is that you can burn more fuel in the right proportions in the same space.
I'm no physicist but a quick peruse of the theory and application of supercritical fluids makes me think that this is an example of why it works so well fro White2001S10. He uses a BIG bottle at tremendous presure with very little in the way of connectors and restrictions. His results may not be replicatable with the testing methods here because of the above (if my theory is correct). In his defense White2001S10 has many many years of reliable and meticulously tested Nitrous data. I have personally witnessed much of it and it is as he says. The reasons may be questioned but the results are tangible.
12-13-2005, 04:36 PM
#55
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Robert,
Liquid nitrous should always hold the pressure at a certain temp. so 95deg is around 1,000 psi. I think what happens is when you get down to the point where it dosent hold that pressure anymore, the last of your liquid has boiled and all thats left is vapor in the bottle.
So at 15lbs,14,13,12....all the way down to say 3.5lbs 95deg=1,000psi, then below that it drops down quick.
The nitrous vapor dose have signifigant weight. With the large tanks I use to refill bottles, once the liquid runs out, they keep about 10-15lbs of vapor that I can never use to pump.
Vinny
Liquid nitrous should always hold the pressure at a certain temp. so 95deg is around 1,000 psi. I think what happens is when you get down to the point where it dosent hold that pressure anymore, the last of your liquid has boiled and all thats left is vapor in the bottle.
So at 15lbs,14,13,12....all the way down to say 3.5lbs 95deg=1,000psi, then below that it drops down quick.
The nitrous vapor dose have signifigant weight. With the large tanks I use to refill bottles, once the liquid runs out, they keep about 10-15lbs of vapor that I can never use to pump.
Vinny
Originally Posted by Robert56
Something to keep in mind, is the fact that a bottles temp at a static temp still will have a varing flow/density as bottle wieght goes down. Example, a 15lb full weight bottle will be at approx 1150psi at 95*, the same bottle at 95* and 3lb's of nitrous reamaining will be about 600psi. My conclusion, it seems from data presented, as density increases pressure and power decreases. any thoughts/insight?
So does anyone know where or how long this supercritical state lasts? Why I ask, it seems running 1150psi at first purging you get a cloud as per normal, then for a period of time (maybe the area of supercritical) it seems it purges only vapor/gas, then latter comes back per normal. However, running dry the pcm is making calcs to compansate for density (a wet cannot) that overall performance, as far as I can tell has increased, and dosen't fall off during the supercritical phase?
Good talk here, you won't find this dedicated bunch of nitrous heads on any other forum.
Robert
So does anyone know where or how long this supercritical state lasts? Why I ask, it seems running 1150psi at first purging you get a cloud as per normal, then for a period of time (maybe the area of supercritical) it seems it purges only vapor/gas, then latter comes back per normal. However, running dry the pcm is making calcs to compansate for density (a wet cannot) that overall performance, as far as I can tell has increased, and dosen't fall off during the supercritical phase?
Good talk here, you won't find this dedicated bunch of nitrous heads on any other forum.
Robert
12-13-2005, 04:54 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by NXJeremy
white2000s10, I'm sensing alot of hostility from you. I just asked a simple question because I was curious. Obviously you didn't record any a/f readings, that's all I wanted to know, yes or no. The reason I wanted to know was because I am just trying to explore all avenues concerning pressure/temp, density, and flow characteristics of nitrous oxide. Which by the way, if you had noticed, there is a considerable drop in density as pressure increases. So, a less dense mixture would yeild a lower N/F ratio, which in case you don't know, is a richer mixture.
I could say I have data, but you'll say prove it, and I don't have files I can post online. When the season starts back up again I can save the files from my LM1 wideband and post away. I do have quite a bit in the way of test equipment, but simply stating that so and so was my results doesn't hold much water online does it? I don't mind doing testing so I can show you the results. It's just not going to happen today.
Granted I do NOT have equipment to directly measure the density of N2O inside of a bottle. The only thing I could do is calculate it if I were really concerned. What I do have is the equipment to measure with a WBO2, thermocouple in the exhaust, and more importantly power output and vehicle performance.
I say there is more nitrous going in at high pressure, but you say there isn't.
You may be right, but my A/F does NOT go rich with the higher pressure, and I do make significantly more power.
So far nobody has explained those results, except for maybe Homeslice saying that more heat energy is absorbed during the release giving a denser charge in the intake.
Isn't more power what we're concerned about?
If I wasn't confident of my own test results I would never have posted anything to that effect.
It's like some people will question anyone elses results but their own. I never asked anyone to post video of the tests being done so I can scrutanize their testing procedures and point out how stupid they are.
I've used 5, 10, and 20 lb bottles, but my preference is the 20 lb because it holds pressure better during a run. The shots are anywhere from 100 to 200hp, so not all that big.
If someone has a car running even a small dry shot right now, maybe they will do some testing for us and record on their wideband and accelerometer.
I have no way to do it right now, but if they are local they could use my test equipment.
12-13-2005, 05:30 PM
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My apologies white2000s10 for taking some of your comments the wrong way. I don't recall you mentioning using a dyno, wideband, or any other testing equipment and that is why I was asking about the a/f readings.
I think everyone is curious as to the cause of the results you have experienced, and most are probably a little skeptical due to these results being outside of the norm. I am very interested in finding the cause of them and a lot of this information is helping. Thanks guys, keep it coming.
Homeslice, interesting bit of information. If it holds true it could be a big part of the reason for white2000s10's unusual results. Anyone else have thoughts/info on this.
I think everyone is curious as to the cause of the results you have experienced, and most are probably a little skeptical due to these results being outside of the norm. I am very interested in finding the cause of them and a lot of this information is helping. Thanks guys, keep it coming.
Homeslice, interesting bit of information. If it holds true it could be a big part of the reason for white2000s10's unusual results. Anyone else have thoughts/info on this.
12-13-2005, 06:50 PM
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From the testing I have seen at where I work. I cant post it because they are not a sponsor of the site but if you want to know pm me. Is that in our Pro mods the bottles are heated to around 1100 then they are purged out to under 1050. Above 1050 the pressure drops of so rapidly that the rest of the bottle cant keep up. White says he runs 1500 and from what I have seen when you run that much its boiling the nitrous and not keeping it in a liquid form witch is what makes the most power. Liquid is what you want. Not gas.
But when his bottle is at 1500 when he leaves the presure im sure is dropping off so fast until it reaches the point where it stablizes just under 1000. Where its back to a liquid and where the bottle valve can keep up. At 1500 psi there is no way the valve can keep up. Our modified valves flow way more than any you can buy. And at 1200 psi using our big .157 n20 sylinoid. When the noid is turned on the for that 10th of a second the bottle valve cant keep up. Then it stabilizes and pressure drops and regains flow and drops off stedily to around 1000.
And earlier someone posted they want to know what the pressure drop from the bottle valve to the jet was. In our testing its around 5% on the total bottle pressure. IE 1000 bottle, pressure at the jet would be 950. But all our stuff is extremly effiecent.
But when his bottle is at 1500 when he leaves the presure im sure is dropping off so fast until it reaches the point where it stablizes just under 1000. Where its back to a liquid and where the bottle valve can keep up. At 1500 psi there is no way the valve can keep up. Our modified valves flow way more than any you can buy. And at 1200 psi using our big .157 n20 sylinoid. When the noid is turned on the for that 10th of a second the bottle valve cant keep up. Then it stabilizes and pressure drops and regains flow and drops off stedily to around 1000.
And earlier someone posted they want to know what the pressure drop from the bottle valve to the jet was. In our testing its around 5% on the total bottle pressure. IE 1000 bottle, pressure at the jet would be 950. But all our stuff is extremly effiecent.
12-13-2005, 07:03 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by NXJeremy
My apologies white2000s10 for taking some of your comments the wrong way. I don't recall you mentioning using a dyno, wideband, or any other testing equipment and that is why I was asking about the a/f readings.
I think everyone is curious as to the cause of the results you have experienced, and most are probably a little skeptical due to these results being outside of the norm. I am very interested in finding the cause of them and a lot of this information is helping. Thanks guys, keep it coming.
Homeslice, interesting bit of information. If it holds true it could be a big part of the reason for white2000s10's unusual results. Anyone else have thoughts/info on this.
I think everyone is curious as to the cause of the results you have experienced, and most are probably a little skeptical due to these results being outside of the norm. I am very interested in finding the cause of them and a lot of this information is helping. Thanks guys, keep it coming.
Homeslice, interesting bit of information. If it holds true it could be a big part of the reason for white2000s10's unusual results. Anyone else have thoughts/info on this.
The highest form of wisdom is kindness.
The Talmud
No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.
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Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth.
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12-13-2005, 08:56 PM
#60
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Thats some good info, and it jives with what I did last night. The pressure dropped form 1300 down to around 1,000 within a second or two with only a .062 oriface.
Originally Posted by N20GMC
From the testing I have seen at where I work. I cant post it because they are not a sponsor of the site but if you want to know pm me. Is that in our Pro mods the bottles are heated to around 1100 then they are purged out to under 1050. Above 1050 the pressure drops of so rapidly that the rest of the bottle cant keep up. White says he runs 1500 and from what I have seen when you run that much its boiling the nitrous and not keeping it in a liquid form witch is what makes the most power. Liquid is what you want. Not gas.
But when his bottle is at 1500 when he leaves the presure im sure is dropping off so fast until it reaches the point where it stablizes just under 1000. Where its back to a liquid and where the bottle valve can keep up. At 1500 psi there is no way the valve can keep up. Our modified valves flow way more than any you can buy. And at 1200 psi using our big .157 n20 sylinoid. When the noid is turned on the for that 10th of a second the bottle valve cant keep up. Then it stabilizes and pressure drops and regains flow and drops off stedily to around 1000.
And earlier someone posted they want to know what the pressure drop from the bottle valve to the jet was. In our testing its around 5% on the total bottle pressure. IE 1000 bottle, pressure at the jet would be 950. But all our stuff is extremly effiecent.
But when his bottle is at 1500 when he leaves the presure im sure is dropping off so fast until it reaches the point where it stablizes just under 1000. Where its back to a liquid and where the bottle valve can keep up. At 1500 psi there is no way the valve can keep up. Our modified valves flow way more than any you can buy. And at 1200 psi using our big .157 n20 sylinoid. When the noid is turned on the for that 10th of a second the bottle valve cant keep up. Then it stabilizes and pressure drops and regains flow and drops off stedily to around 1000.
And earlier someone posted they want to know what the pressure drop from the bottle valve to the jet was. In our testing its around 5% on the total bottle pressure. IE 1000 bottle, pressure at the jet would be 950. But all our stuff is extremly effiecent.