95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

Not a problem... I was thinking the same thing, and since, as it is obvious, I don't mind being -ahem- long-winded in posts, I believe I can put together a quite informative write-up on not only an integration with a LM-1/LC-1 setup, but also a complete Maximizer II install, since I have yet to find one...

I will keep everyone informed as things progress...

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

I see you bet me to the answer, good luck hope it works for you.. But keep in mind I do not think you will be able to see both sides, just one input...
The config info is in the set up of the wide band controller section..
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/WB...%20rev%20F.pdf
Good luck.
Ricky

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

Looking at how the FJO wideband is setup looks pretty easy. The FJO Wideband is setup to output the "Legacy FJO" which is not a 0 - 5 volt signal.
Legacy FJO
10.00:1 = .81 volts && LM1 = 0.00

20.00:1 = 3.10 volts && LM1 = 5.00

Should be pretty easy to setup but having a smaller window for the A/F doesn't make sense.

95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

Actually, the analog output curves of the LM-1/LC-1 are programmable, so you can simulate the same curve 'range' as needed for the Maximizer II...

Now, the one issue some may point to is the non-linear curve of the 'Legacy FJO' range, but it *IS* linear from 10:1 through to 13:1, with only a 3% varience at 13.5 (2.14v FJO vs a 2.21v linear) and only a 14% varience at 14.5:1 (2.45v FJO vs 2.81v linear), which is all the range that is needed, as how often are you going to want nitrous to run at a AFR > 14.5:1???

So you set the LM-1 to go from 0.81 at 10:1 AFR to 4.81 at 20:1 AFR on the analog output and it approximates the 13:1 and below range AFR that the FJO Legacy curve specifies, with a 2.69v output at 14.7:1 configured on the LM-1/LC-1...

As a side note, I am certain that FJO could add an option for 'linear wideband 0-5v' to thier menu with a simple code change and map that to a 0v=10:1 AFR and 5v=20:1 AFR pretty easily... As soon as I get my unit I will be calling them to see if that is something they can possibly add in thier next software update.

And in the 'meantime' I will be calculating out a AFR conversion table so that an approximate AFR can be entered into the Max2 that will map to the roughly equivalent output on the LM-1/LC-1 if someone 'really needs to' map an AFR above 13:1, with an upper limit of a LM-1/LC-1 being somewhere around 15.7:1 because of the equivalent limit of 20:1 on the Max2 (as in a 13.5:1 AFR in the Max2 software would equal approx a 13.3:1 AFR on the LM-1/LC-1 output, and a 14.5:1 AFR Max2 = 14.1 AFR LM-1/LC-1, 15.5:1 AFR Max2 = 14.5:1 AFR LM-1/LC-1, etc... but again anything from 13:1 and richer is basically dead-on so the value entered should be accurate)

I will post it as soon as I get a chance to get it together...

Once I get the unit I will also be testing it to see if an analog voltage output correction factor is needed based on the loading of the Max2 on the LM-1/LC-1 analog outputs...

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

I'd rather see an option on the Max 2 where you can change the Wideband input to 0 - 5 volts and roll with it.
Phil

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

I am betting not going to happen. but I have been wrong in the past not often but it does happen . Yall asked and yes it can be done and now that is not good enough.. I just do not understand.



Ricky

95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I am seeing a trend here... Ricky do you really have that big of a problem 'playing nicely with others'???

I can see exactly where half the problems in this section come from when a 'Tech Support' guy for a product vendor starts interjecting 'opinions' and 'viewpoints' that does a disservice to his employer and thier products...

Look, if you are feeling 'sore' because there is a product innovation that allows diverse products to 'play well together' and then someone has a 'value-add' idea that basically makes that integration even easier, you interject with a negative attitude and scorn???

I believe it is far out of place for a 'tech support' guy to basically make his company look as bad as you do when you start acting like this. Fact of the matter is, NX and FJO wouldn't have been brought into 'question' via this whole ordeal if you would have referred me to FJO directly in the first place, but instead gave me a stonewalling diversion of an answer.

I see YOU (NXRicky) as being the roadblock here, and would like to hear from someone else at NX that would like to confirm or deny your 'poor attitude' towards other products and innovations. And I only say that as a credibility marker, in that if it IS the stance of NX corporate that they don't want to 'play well with others' and this is all coming from some sort of 'corporate directive' I believe US (your customers) need to know so we know who we need to support by paying for thier products, or not support by buying other vendors products...

Like I said MANY times, I really LOVE NX PRODUCTS!!! Hell, I have some serious cash wrapped up in a ALL NX product setup! I just can't believe the attitude of the tech-support offered by the company... It is really making me question if I should be supporting NX as my vendor of choice, if every time someone wants to hook someone else equipment up I get stonwalled and a poor attitude from thier tech guy...

Fact of the matter is, any smart company makes thier stuff work with other 'like' products as a courtesy and marketing advantage... I would NOT be buying a Maximizer II unless I got this integration issue worked out, and now that it has been, one will be ordered in the next few days... So, NX and FJO both make out on this...

Now, doesn't it make sense that if there are others that also will now decide to buy because the integration possibilty exists that it would be in the best 'interest' of the customer to possibly add one small programming feature that makes it complete??? Of course it does, and being a software engineer myself for over 17 years, I can tell you the code change for something like this is probably less than 30 minutes and may even be as short as 10 minutes depending on how the code is written... so 'possible'? most definitly, and the likely-hood? unknown as I haven't even called FJO yet... But I will say, based upon thier professionalism in the tech call I did make to them I wouldn't call it 'impossible' or 'unlikely' that they will make the change in a future revision...

I just find your commentary way out of line and very much out of place in this regard...

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Sorry you feel like that when all I have done is try to help with this problem.. I never spoke directly to you on the phone or else I would have told you to call FJO, I try to talk to FJO on a daily basis and sometimes that just does not happen...

I play nicely with others, I try to give the best tech I can when I can and where it is warrantied. thats all.

I have help alot of people within my 7 years at NX, with NX products and with others. Yet my responce is taken totally out of context.
I hope you get it work for you and feel free to call me any time directly.
940-687-0750 direct to the desk.


I see YOU (NXRicky) as being the roadblock here, and would like to hear from someone else at NX that would like to confirm or deny your 'poor attitude' towards other products and innovations. And I only say that as a credibility marker, in that if it IS the stance of NX corporate that they don't want to 'play well with others' and this is all coming from some sort of 'corporate directive' I believe US (your customers) need to know so we know who we need to support by paying for thier products, or not support by buying other vendors products...

Please my attitude is fact I have been told I am little groof at times. (thats me not going to sugar coat it) you sound upset just becuase I did not tell you exactly how to make a connection. I did not know how period thats it, Feel free to call anyone at NX. I am totally cool with my spot in time and space and my heart is always been to help people if I KNOW THE ANSWER...

I well tell you this, I will go one step further and ask just how much will it cost to set up another table in the Max2 on its next revision (which is coming up).. This has nothing to do with you bashing my person yet a look at the moneys involved...

One final note about me and my business tactics..
I have designed and build everyone of NX's products that the ls1 comunity likes and enjoys. And have done so strictly because I enjoy this world.
If you would have giving me time to research the problem if full and not bash the company and company practice like you and delt with me directly you may have found your answer with complete instruction and wiring. Yet I was not given the time...

I am sure the Max2 will be every thing you are looking for... And will enjoy the free updates when they come out..



Ricky

95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

Actually, there may be another way of utilizing the wideband integration capabilities of the Max2, which may be necessary if they end up not making a software change...

Now I am wondering if the 'narrowband' setting of the Max2 software works for an 'attempted' full-range reading of 0-1v? As in does it 'assume' 0v=20:1 AFR and 1V= 10:1 AFR???

I know if you switch to 'narrowband' you can set a voltage instead of a AFR for EGO cutoff, so that is not an issue, what this is for is the realtime data display aspect of the Max2 software, as in does it interpolate the data like I asked above, or does it ignore the EGO input for realtime data display in narrowband mode? NXRicky, maybe you can find out on this?

If it does map, then the simple answer to hold things over before potential code changes would be to configure the LM-1/LC-1 for a reverse linear output (5v=10:1 thru 0v=20:1) and then put a 5:1 divider circuit on the analog output of the LM-1/LC-1 to Max2 input to bring the range down to narrowband levels... (The reason to do this is to keep the S/N ratio high on the analog output and to compensate for any sort of small voltage differences, and at the same time keeping the large dynamic range output of the LM-1/LC-1 intact and accurate)... Would cost only a few bucks in components to put together such a voltage divider , and that would take care of things in the short term...

Key being, that a 0v-5v input option on the Max2 EGO settings is THE way to do it properly, but this would also work in the interim *IF* the Max2 software is configured to use the 'narrowband' input for datalogging as I have described above...

Side Note: yeah, yeah it is winter, I am REALLY bored and just spend far too much time thinking on these things... I really can't help myself, I am a systems engineer at heart and fixate on technical 'challenges' until I ferret out all possible solutions...

NXJeremy

I wasn't going to respond to this but after reading it a couple of times this kind of thing really irks me, especially since Ricky and myself are on this board to help people and he has very correct, factual, and helpful input on a lot of situations. I apologize to the others in this thread ahead of time.


95 TA - I don't recall seeing you on here much with helping other's with nitrous related questions/issues. Attacking NX employees' integrity and/or that of Nitrous Express as a whole is way out of line. Ricky, myself and the other techs here at NX are very dedicated to providing the best customer service possible as well as providing the best nitrous products in this industry, which by they way Ricky is responsible for the designing of every single one of the LS1 specific products that you guys seem to love. Not to mention the many many years he's been running nitrous systems on his own cars in addition to being with NX almost from it's beginning. All of us here at NX are more than just desk jockeys, we are all very much into building and racing cars, bikes, and just about anything else with an engine that we can make fast. We are as much into this hobby/sport as any of our customers, and we are constantly trying to provide the latest technology to our customers. We asked FJO to build a product and they delivered. It happens to be the best product of it's kind in my opinion. As with all of FJO's productss they design them to work together with their other products so as to be able to guarantee the products accuracy and operation. This is not a line of marketing bs, but rather a good way of insuring that their products are the best on the market.

The fact of the matter is, you asked a question, Ricky told you he would try to find out, and you then got the answer from somewhere else. I don't see that as being a roadblock, and I agree it is true that Ricky tends to be pretty blunt and can come across as "not being able to play nicely with others", but your comments were completely uncalled for. He was trying to help you, and when you didn't get an answer that satified you, you then start bashing him. If you had called and spoken to Ricky, myself, or any of the other techs I'm possitive that you would have been referred to FJO directly due to the fact that this situation is a very uncommon one and not something that we would have a wiring diagram for. Either that or we wouldv'e called FJO ourselves (which I'm sure Ricky was doing) and got the answer for you.

Hell, if you had given him some more time he probably would've given you a nice pretty color coded wiring diagram showing exactly how to wire it up, and given you all the needed info for the conversion tables. By the way, feel free to call us anytime.