blacktransam

iTrader: (13)

i'm sorry but posts like that are what cause problems.. ok you've done it but you even said.. it leaned out on 200.. also as i stated there are a number of diff manufacturers of pumps in these cars.. its whoever did it cheaper for GM.. so just because you did it on a stock pump has absolutely NO relevance to his car or his set up.. fact is if you are making anything but stock power the stock parts are not built to keep up and NO ONE in there right mind SHOULD expect them too..

i have sprayed 300 at my stock bottom end and it held it.. you could blow your at 200.. who knows.. depends on a number of variables in every senario..

if you are going to modify and add hp a wide band is a necessity.. and due to the fact that our cars have as far as the industry goes a pretty unreliable fuel pump.. spraying on the stock pump when a walboro is only 125 shipped brand new is absolutely mindless.. PERIOD..

Mike

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

and it's posts like some of the ones in here immediately blaming the fuel pump and injectors (wet kit doesn't need larger injectors) without finding out as much info as possible is what causes problems as well.

yep, i said it leaned out on a 200. but didn't on the 150. so, there's my qualification to my statement. that and his statement of the pressure only dropping to 52psi, which mine did as well. on the dyno it started at 14 and went down to just above 13 near the end of the run. and i've been running the 150+ for almost two years now since i got the car.

and saying i did it on stock pump doesn't have any relevance? using your same words, so just because someone didn't do it on a stock pump has absolutely NO relevance to his car or his set up. everything has relevance.

then the cost of installing it (not everyone can do their own work). so $300.00 for a pump. still it's cheap insurance. i won't argue the point that you are trying to make. but, there's too many people running 150 on stock fuel pumps. so, beating up on people that don't run out and do dynos, buy widebands, and get fuel pumps is just absolutely mindless as well ... PERIOD. i wonder how people and manufacturers ever got along before dynos and widebands?

oh and i'll give you props for hitting your stock bottom end with a 300 shot. i still don't have nuts that big just yet. i might do it next year. i'm thinking of doing a pill it until you kill it test.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Boston,
Sorry to here you hurt the motor. I can see that your post has been well covered. When you get ready to put your car back on the spray please call me directly. I want to walk you through a safe way about tunning and checking the system.

I have hurt motors learning as well. Sometimes this is how we learn. But going to the guys that already know the right path is much cheaper.
Dave

terry s

iTrader: (5)

It kept the people sellimg motors and parts very happy.

Camaro94SS

What do you look for when looking at a plug after s run on spray? Is it possible to get your a/f checked without a dyno?

Camaro94SS

What do you mean by "the plug being too hot" and how can you stop this before it happens? Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions...just trying to learn before i blwo my motor up as well....

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

due to the extreme heat generated by the added cylinder pressures, the ground electrode and tip of the plug will get hotter than normal. to combat this, you get a plug where the porcelin are and ground electrode do not protrude as far into the cylinder as a stock one would. basically a shorter plug. this will help keep the plug from melting and causing it to break off into pieces. also, help with preventing detonation.

think like sitting next to a fire. the closer you are to it, the more heat you feel coming from the fire.

which reminds me, has the plugs been pulled out of this engine yet?

Red Heartbeat

iTrader: (9)

Where do you start to solve this problem? Drill down to the sources.

1.) What was the bottle pressure during the run? Track grade of Nitrous or medical grade?
2.) What fuel pump? Okay, stock you say. How much engine HP can a stock pump support? We've heard of less than 400 HP on a factory pump and we've heard of a 300 shot blown through a factory pump. I keep hearing even the walbro 255LPH/GS340 will only supply enough fuel for 550 HP of engine HP. An LS1 engine can "easily" put out over 500 crank HP. Add 300 HP of spray and how much pump are you going to need. I see why stand-alone fuel systems can be so popular.
3.) what octane fuel?
4.) what fuel pressure during the run? Is it consistant during dyno runs vs. track runs?
5.) which spark plugs were run
6.) what are the basic necessities for a money maker kit that don't come with the kit that would be a minimum requirements list? Please list these things and add them to packages sold over the internet to customers. Pretend we aren't all Nitrous geniuses that have had 1000 hours to peruse websites and web pages to put together a "safe" kit.
7.) when nitrous and fuel jets are "suggested" starting points, also list what pressures the jets are supposed to see for these "suggested" jets.
8.) Anyone else can join in here. I'm not the first to wonder why these questions aren't posted somewhere with the sales of kits such as this one.

FL Junkie

iTrader: (23)

hmm...im glad i sold my nos kit and bought a cam.lol

next

iTrader: (9)

Try Google as there are a few good articles on the internet that talk about reading plugs. Don't just read one as several have good points and combined it should help you get started.

Robert (mrr23) - saying the plug was too hot is as much speculation as me saying the fuel wasn't adequate You say a stock pump is fine cause you've survived with it. I say a TR6 is fine on a 150 shot cause I survived it. All conjecture without some view of the plugs. BTW, I'm sure you know this but there are various heat ranges in both projected and non-projected tip plugs.

Nitrous shops like Nitro Dave will guide you when selecting a plug based on your setup. Lot's of guys love to help others learn and this shop is a prime example of that.

Heat Range Basics - To come up with the final determination for the right heat range in a plug, read the ground strap after a wide open hit and then immediately shutting down the motor (as with all plug readings). The strap will leave a mark where the heat rises to. Too cold of a plug will put the mark less than half way up the tip. This doesn't allow for enough burn and can allow the plugs to foul quickly. Too hot of a plug will allow the strap to heat past the half way mark towards where the strap attaches. The bad side of this is the plug can actually hold too much heat and cause pre-ignition (detonation).

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

yeah, this thread will just go round and round over what it was that did it.

and yes, i know about projected and non-projected tips.

yes, my TR6 plugs lasted quite some time until the #6 broke apart.

i just like being the devil's advocate most of the time. everyone just came off the hip with the fuel pump without even considering any other factor.

i agree, it's time to wait until he can get the plugs out and/or the head off to see what transpired. which is why i asked if he pulled a plug yet in my previous post.


on another note, how'd you do at night of fire?

next

iTrader: (9)

I'll be heading out there tomorrow and can give you the update if your around.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

won't be there. PM me about it.

next

iTrader: (9)

The first answer is nitrous is nitrous. The difference is whether it has sulfur so you don't get any funny ideas of huffing.

Now I'll jump to question 8 - there are too many variables in setups to have a catch all answer. Just consult the sales professionals and I'm sure they'll give you some good advice.

Red Heartbeat

iTrader: (9)

Sales professionals are different than the person that takes the orders at the store, telephone or website. You tell them what you want, ask if there is anything else you need for the kit and they take your money. They don't know about your current setup or care about much more than the sale percentage they get for the order. This is why I suggest a minimum requirements being posted for all systems for sale. Even computer software writers list the minimum requirements on all programs sold to customers. These parameters make sure their products works as promised in the sales agreement. Could you imagine what it would be like if you tried to run WindowXP on a Mac or 386sx processor?

next

iTrader: (9)

Actually, the nitrous shop sponsors on this site are the same guys answering the phone and taking orders so they know their stuff. Of course I have my favorites that folks can link to the sites in my sig, but I doubt any of our site sponsors would steer you wrong.

I understand your point and many manufactures do have FAQs that help. My opinion is it's best to talk to a nitrous rep rather than rely on generic info.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

In some cases this is true.
However here at Nitrous Outlet we built our reputation off customner service. Not selling parts.

In order to offer good customer service you have to know what you are talking about when it comes to product knowledge and technical help.

We have 4 phone lines here that stay lit up pretty much all day. You would be suprised at how much call volume is tecnical help. Some of the calls are people looking for help that could not get the knowledgeable help from the company they purchased there product from to start with. (We do not mind)

WE are passionate towards wanting to see people haveing good safe fun while spraying. In order for this to happen they need to be able to go somewhere to get answers when needed.

Our moto here is that we do not guess and BS our way through answering a question. If it is a question that one of us is uncertain about we will do what it takes to get you the right answer.

We give Free Tech advice and do what it takes to help you with nothing expected in return. Now this does cost the company a great deal of money to have 4 full time techs sitting at the phone. So to everyone who supports us by buying our products we are greatful. The customers that support us are the ones responsable for keeping us able to offer the services we do..

Dave

dame

iTrader: (3)

No need to "whatever" me............ I stated: all the people I KNOW....

It's obvious that you are in a financial situation that enables you to fork over a few thousand dollars if/when your motor goes "poof" ....... some people might find it easier (on their pockets) to spend a few extra hundred dollars NOW, and buy a pump (and injectors if its a dry kit) then it is to go LEAN- go "poof" then come on here and say "nitrous blew up my motor"

Bottom line is - some people on here don't have a problem with paying $$$ for "piece of mind".... and adding a fuel pump and/or injectors to a nitrous kit whether I NEED them or not= "piece of mind" to me.

This is a hobby for me.... and I like to be able to enjoy my hobby....... worrying about whether or not im going to go lean because im pushing my STOCK fuel system past its intended limits isn't my definition of enjoying my car.

but with that said..... it works for you,and thats what counts..... but imo you are the exception: NOT the rule.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

A) 4 degrees is not enough timing to pull on todays junk pump gas
B) Stock fuel pump is not a great idea some guys do it, some fin out the hard way, even on a bone stock car with a 150 I wouldnt do it. The fuel pump thats in your car was likely built from the cheapest place GM could get "sufficient for stock" pumps from. You were obviously taxing the system as fuel pressure dropped 6 lbs which it cant do unless your over working the pump
C) Just because there is a recommend jetting map doesnt mean you put those jets in and walk away. THEY ARE A STARTING POINT. Tune WITH A WIDEBAND from there

V6 Bird

iTrader: (15)

TR6 plugs suck dick.