Up in Flames... Fire Bad!
03-19-2007, 10:18 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet
Wow 22 degrees for a 285 shot. I would think you needed more pulled out even with the race gas. Have you ever read the spark plugs to see where the timming mark was on them. Relying on the computer to tell you knock can be misleading.
All aside though Kudos for all you have put that stock motor through. You deffintly have gotton your moneys worth.lol
Looking forward to seeing what the new build turns out to being.
Dave
All aside though Kudos for all you have put that stock motor through. You deffintly have gotton your moneys worth.lol
Looking forward to seeing what the new build turns out to being.
Dave
03-19-2007, 11:55 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet
Wow 22 degrees for a 285 shot. I would think you needed more pulled out even with the race gas. Have you ever read the spark plugs to see where the timming mark was on them. Relying on the computer to tell you knock can be misleading.
All aside though Kudos for all you have put that stock motor through. You deffintly have gotton your moneys worth.lol
Looking forward to seeing what the new build turns out to being.
Dave
All aside though Kudos for all you have put that stock motor through. You deffintly have gotton your moneys worth.lol
Looking forward to seeing what the new build turns out to being.
Dave
Update on block.
The crankshaft bolt is loose. The damper came out about 1/4 of a inch and that is where the oil came from. Best I can see no hole in the block or pan. No antifreee in the oil. I should have the engine out tommorrow.
03-20-2007, 12:29 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Robert56
Dip stick has never moved before. This is one reason i think the piston went, then the block was pressurized by the open hole?
Robert
Robert
I just think the problem could have started with a crack from before, thats why I asked about the dipstick. My ole '99 camaro started to push the dip stick out about 2 inches when I sprayed after I had went through 70 or so bottles. It never blew but I always thought it could be a cracked or damaged ringland.
03-20-2007, 12:30 AM
#44
My Guess is torched head gaskets.
I was standing as close the the grenade as I dared. It took off ok then went flat. Nosed off hard like really lean. Thing is we heard no detonation. it was just flat and almost not climbing RPM. We were waving at Robert to stop but he was looking at his screen in the passenger seat. Then it blew smoke from all around the Engine low. and blew flames out of what might be found to be number one.
There was not a singal sound of pure desctuction. Never heard any rods let go and ratle or any thing. It just went flat and went into complete melt down. It was the Quietest explosion I ever heard....
My guess is head gasket failure leading to the blow torch effect and full melt down.
To be honest it is really hard to tell the way it let go and how quiet it was
I was standing as close the the grenade as I dared. It took off ok then went flat. Nosed off hard like really lean. Thing is we heard no detonation. it was just flat and almost not climbing RPM. We were waving at Robert to stop but he was looking at his screen in the passenger seat. Then it blew smoke from all around the Engine low. and blew flames out of what might be found to be number one.
There was not a singal sound of pure desctuction. Never heard any rods let go and ratle or any thing. It just went flat and went into complete melt down. It was the Quietest explosion I ever heard....
My guess is head gasket failure leading to the blow torch effect and full melt down.
To be honest it is really hard to tell the way it let go and how quiet it was
03-21-2007, 07:19 PM
#50
The Magic Motor lives. Damage is minimal. Looks as though a ring land failed then ensuing meltdown. Cylinder is scoured, but we think (so Far) that it can be cleaned up. Now what I think happened is detontation. Two things, not sure if new tune was actually pulling more timing (should have checked with smaller hit, but hey sometimes we learn from out mistakes), and was running old used up TR6s ( I had meant to get a set of colder plugs, but again, we learn...)
The balancer coming loose and loosing oil we think is related to the cam bolts coming loose (a known problem at GM, but no recall). Did this have anything to do with meltdown or just a coincedent, not sure at this point. I have not seen motor in person yet, so...
I have a lead on a ls6 balanced crank, forged rods, pistons and rings, but not sure if it's really nitrous friendly stuff. I will post the brands and part numbers later and see if anyone has insight. I will be spraying the new set-up with a 300rwhp shot without a shadow of doubt.
Anyway here is the pics. I know I screwed up this time and got in a hurry, so I can take any advice/insight in any form.
and the plugs, which I think I can clean them up and re-gap, then they would be good for another dozen runs or so.
Robert
The balancer coming loose and loosing oil we think is related to the cam bolts coming loose (a known problem at GM, but no recall). Did this have anything to do with meltdown or just a coincedent, not sure at this point. I have not seen motor in person yet, so...
I have a lead on a ls6 balanced crank, forged rods, pistons and rings, but not sure if it's really nitrous friendly stuff. I will post the brands and part numbers later and see if anyone has insight. I will be spraying the new set-up with a 300rwhp shot without a shadow of doubt.
Anyway here is the pics. I know I screwed up this time and got in a hurry, so I can take any advice/insight in any form.
and the plugs, which I think I can clean them up and re-gap, then they would be good for another dozen runs or so.
Robert
03-21-2007, 09:15 PM
#55
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Well if it took a 285 shot to blow your stock motor then my plans to spray a 100 shot on top of a intercooled Procharger at 8 or 9 psi isn't too outrageous for my stock bottom end. Some seem to think that 550 or so RWHP is the end of the road for a stock bottom end LS1....and I'm very close to that now! 
to RWHP #'s starting with a 6 or 7....or maybe even an 8!
to RWHP #'s starting with a 6 or 7....or maybe even an 8!
03-21-2007, 09:16 PM
#56
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whatever cause it (lean or timing or octane issues)...there was some serious detonation going on. You had one piston fail...but many plugs burnt. So you had massive detonation and found the weakest piston.
Incredible the rest of the pistons held up.
Incredible the rest of the pistons held up.
03-21-2007, 09:21 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by germeezy1
Well if it took a 285 shot to blow your stock motor then my plans to spray a 100 shot on top of a intercooled Procharger at 8 or 9 psi isn't too outrageous for my stock bottom end. Some seem to think that 550 or so RWHP is the end of the road for a stock bottom end LS1....and I'm very close to that now! to RWHP #'s starting with a 6 or 7....or maybe even an 8!
to RWHP #'s starting with a 6 or 7....or maybe even an 8!But thats just it...it took a 285 shot coupled with massive detonation due to some type of malfunction or oversight to kill the stock bottom.
I am sure if the issue that caused the detonation didnt happen....and timing, octane, and AF ratio where correct....he would be getting ready to run at the track right now.
These bottom ends can take alot more than we give them credit for. The peak pressure difference between a 150 shot and a 300 shot pales in comparison to the pressure difference between a 150 shot and a 150 shot thats detonating due to too much timing or not enough octane.
03-21-2007, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by germeezy1
Well if it took a 285 shot to blow your stock motor then my plans to spray a 100 shot on top of a intercooled Procharger at 8 or 9 psi isn't too outrageous for my stock bottom end. Some seem to think that 550 or so RWHP is the end of the road for a stock bottom end LS1....and I'm very close to that now! to RWHP #'s starting with a 6 or 7....or maybe even an 8!
to RWHP #'s starting with a 6 or 7....or maybe even an 8!Very nice Robert! I still say a stroker will be almost as cheap as a good rebuild. It was within a grand when I made the decision. Pistons, sleeves, bearings, turning the crank, heads, etc. And you start off with an extra 100 lbs of tq. But it's your engine, your money.
03-21-2007, 10:06 PM
#59
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
Just remember boost DOUBLES the effect of nitrous....
Very nice Robert! I still say a stroker will be almost as cheap as a good rebuild. It was within a grand when I made the decision. Pistons, sleeves, bearings, turning the crank, heads, etc. And you start off with an extra 100 lbs of tq. But it's your engine, your money.
Very nice Robert! I still say a stroker will be almost as cheap as a good rebuild. It was within a grand when I made the decision. Pistons, sleeves, bearings, turning the crank, heads, etc. And you start off with an extra 100 lbs of tq. But it's your engine, your money.
Yea, it may be a combo of problems/errors ie: word has it the gas I ran was less than good, plugs were wrong and shot, timing may not have been pulled, I used my numbered drill bits and drilled out jets prior to run (maybe drilled them out to a 500rwhp shot
)From what I could see while logging, no lean running, and no KR, but either and/or both were happening. I lost the log, damn. I have a feeling that the timing was too much, and the tune didn't pull it like it should/could along with fuel?
Robert
03-21-2007, 10:17 PM
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SOunds like it RObert. probably a combo of things. Funny thing I have done the exact same thing.
The gas...never skimp....and when in doubt get some fresh stuff. That me have been the whole deal right there. Unfortunately actual octane has to be taken on faith.
I think your plugs would have been fine if the real underlying issue wasnt present. I have used TR6 at the same TQ you were making several times. I do like to go with 7s...but 6s will do if your octane and timing are good.
The jets....and your drills....lol. We are just the same. I eyeball half my jets....and then check em for actual HP on the dyno...lol.
Anyways....the margin for error gets slimmer and slimmer as the shot size gets higher and higher.
Good luck on the rebuild!
The gas...never skimp....and when in doubt get some fresh stuff. That me have been the whole deal right there. Unfortunately actual octane has to be taken on faith.
I think your plugs would have been fine if the real underlying issue wasnt present. I have used TR6 at the same TQ you were making several times. I do like to go with 7s...but 6s will do if your octane and timing are good.
The jets....and your drills....lol. We are just the same. I eyeball half my jets....and then check em for actual HP on the dyno...lol.
Anyways....the margin for error gets slimmer and slimmer as the shot size gets higher and higher.
Good luck on the rebuild!