LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

noyzee.... 480 RWHP is corrected... uncorrected thats only like 410-420 RWHP... correction factors up here are roughly 1.13-1.16 depending on the day.


the head gaskets popped because i was running 4.125 fel pro gaskets and when i put the head bolts in i didnt get all the water out. i didnt "blow" a head gasket, they just began weeping a little out of the passenger side.

my car runs good and strong and ive proven that time and time again at the track. 118 Traps at our track are pretty freakin good. the air up here is horrible.

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

thats better.
i got it. i was going to say somthing is wrong.
and im not doggin you in any way, just saying you may want to try pulling some timming, the car might pick up a bit.

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

Yeah i mean im still a newbie to nitrous and im sure i will be for quite some time. im always open for suggestions and such. The way i was always taught for nitrous was 2 degrees for every 100 HP of nitrous. What we did when we tuned my car was tuned for max NA power of coarse. while doing so we were seeing upwards of 32-33 degrees of timing with no detonation whatsoever running 91 octane pump gas but the car didnt feel as stong (we were street tuning not dyno tuning) so we bumped it back down to around 30, sprayed the car and it felt solid. plugs looked perfect, and it hit very clean and hard so we left it. I dont have HP tuners personally and the day i was hitting the 200 i didnt have a chance to pull more timing.

i stuck in the bigger jets, went out and raced that camaro i posted the vid of. after that run i pulled into the parking lot and was definately pushing water out of the lower part of the head (stupid fel pros had hardly any gasket right there) so i tore it down and put in MLS 6.0 gaskets. ive never had any problems since then. pistons looked perfect and such.



about 3 or 4 months ago i noticed i had a valve mushrooming on the tip ( i had sprayed many many bottles through the car at this point on the same tune)


pulled my heads and the pistons looked perfect, as did the heads. cylinder walls, everythign still looked in great shape (about 9k miles on everything and lots of spray at this point)


the last time on the dyno where i put down the 480 i was actually only running 28.5 on the 150 shot


anyways... thats my experience with nitrous. so far ive been lucky and only melted a few plugs when i had upped the shot too far and was on stock injectors.

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

wow, id say you are lucky, either thatthe air up there may just keep the car so fat it doesnt matter. i neverthought of that

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

I agree that 28* on a 250 shot is way too much. I wouldn't run any more than 100 shot on 28*. I read somewhere where someone was running 22* on a 200 shot. That seems safe to me. Its not worth risking your motor (or your entire car) just for alittle more hp.

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

how are you risking your motor/car provided there is no detonation to be seen or heard and the plugs look good?

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

All it takes is just one time and you may have a nice red piece of melted down plastic

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

Watch, listen, and learn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCNs_pOu28A

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

lol godddammnn i didnt know detonation could do something like that.. i was under the impression a nitrous backfire was the cause of that

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

LOL, I suppose your right, but I would still back off from 28 deg on a shot that size regardless whether the motor was pinging or not. But thats just me....you can do what you want to do

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

If one person tells ya something, maybe listen, if two people tell ya something maybe you should start listening, if everyone is telling ya something you really should take notice. Sounds like you have had many issues with spray on your car, however, you like to put the blame else where. My opinion is that your motor will not last long at this rate. Good luck though, i hope I am wrong. read, the post by srsnow, there are more than one reason to pull timing, not just safety, but to also make it work at it's peak potential.
On timing, adding the most timing without knock is incorrect way of doing it. The proper way is add timing until your power peak and no more, not until KR, this is n/a timing of course. Try calling all the nitrous companys and ask about your timing, they will tell ya you are on a death warrant.
Robert

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

the issues with your heads ect could be caused by timing.
also it isnt just for safty, its for performance.
Nitrous, it is not if its going to bite you, it is when

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

lol what in the world are you guys talking about??? this forum cracks me up sometimes.


i have had zero problems with my heads and engine. i popped a fel pro 4.125 paper head gasket spraying a 200 shot on a high compression 408..... last time i checked that wasnt exactly a "rare" occurance and was most likely caused by the fact that i didnt get all the water out of the head bolt holes (i didnt realize the bolts went as far down as they do)


what other problems are you guys speaking of that i have? what "issues" with my heads?


i had some old patriots that had the old valves in them. they mushroomed just like everybody elses. just like the AFR's did.

Other than that ive had no problems at all. so would you guys care to explain wtf your talking about ???



not that it matters anyways, as ive already said that i have brought the timing down. the timing is now at 28.5 degrees for my NA tune. when i spray on it there is no detonation and car runs smooth as silk. The 28.5 was found ON THE DYNO while making about 10 pulls on/off spray and such. car loved 28.5 even though it didnt detonate upwards of 32-33 degrees.


So what exactly do you suppose im doing wrong that i need to take advice about???



this isnt rocket science. if the car detonates, your gonna have problems. If its not detonating and the plugs look good then your good to go. i dunno WTF you guys are talking about. Just because you have it stuck in your head that thats too much timing is total BS. every motor is different, every setup is different. detonation kills motors, not nitrous itself or timing. Its the detonation that is CAUSED by those things but so long as the detonation is not happeneing there is no problems running the car the way that i do.



anyways.... im done argueing about this.

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

All I can say is that you certainly picked the right name
for your LS1tech username: Lost Cause

Just kidding!

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

heat is the issue, detonation isnt as much an issue, but your right. throw timming at it and call it a day.
good luck with the car

SS Blazer 07

Having used nitrous I do not understand why would you ever try to run max timing? Pulling timing depends on where you tune started at. Not only pulling timing makes you run a lot faster it is also the safe way to run. Why would you run max timing even if you get by with it? Again pulling timing & running higher octane makes you run much faster? I would for sure keep it below 25 degrees on bigger shots. If you have a fixed tune with lots of advance get the new MSD Timing Twister it lets you adjust timing pulled when the nitrous is activated then return to normal for motor run's. New product. Anyone not running a good wide-band A/F (Innovate) with the gauge at eye level so you can see it when running the 1/4 mile also is your best friend. I sure see some living on the edge thinking by some. This is free advice so some will still find out the hard way.
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k7...t=P1000405.jpg

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

I will admit, the car runs hotter on spray than id like, i have seen temperature spikes up to around 220 degrees instead of my usual 190 degree running temps. but i still have not gotten any detonation from the increased heat (im guessing thats what your getting at)


keep in mind. im guessing your mostly a track car that hot laps at the track spray after spray after spray. in that case then id totally agree about running less timign and more safety.


my car is a street car, used pretty much solely for roll racing on the freeway. Keep that in mind, it needs to be tuned for max NA power that i can do and then every now and then throw some spray into the mix when its necesarry (not very often) and its usually 1 single run from 40-140.


im guessing thats where the discrepency in your and my beliefs is the way we drive and race our cars. all my runs on spray are generally at 1 in the morning when its super cold outside and optimum conditions. which im sure is helping with heat issues as im not running in the hot sun at the track and hot lapping all day long.



anyways.. glad we had a decent little conversation, i hope i havent offended you as im just trying to give some in put on what has worked with my engine. every setup is different and thats mainly what im trying to get at is all. i dont doubt you in the least bit Noyzee

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

if you read closely you will see that the car is not being ran at max timing. never did we hit "max timing" its about 4 degrees under the highest timing point we ever hit (we still had no detonation therefore it wasnt max timing)

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

when i said heat, yes the motor runs a little hotter, but also exhaust gas and the chambers ect produce more heat causing melted pistions. if you melt a pistion 80% of the time you will not see any knockretard ect.

but like i sadi, if you where to look for your best times or racing a car on the street that was close.
pulling a couple degrees on spray will make you go better if the rest of the tune up is correct.
again, your saving grace could be that air you have in your town that you could cut with a knofe.
if you raced when i race (cold days here) DA is in the negitive, do that with all your timming and you will see what i meen. lol

LostCauseZ06

iTrader: (4)

lol yeah its kinda a double edged sword having shitty air. we still get to claim corrected numbers and say we make as much HP as you guys but out track times suck.

but at the same time i can say im making 500 RWHP and launching at 5k RPM's on my stock rear with slicks and a mcleod street twin with no problems when in fact im only launching with about 420 RWHP